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tech service bulletin 059

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Does anyone know if you need proof of purchase to have this work done.

I have a dt50 that line6 say is covered by this bulletin but i'm not the original owner.

 

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Does anyone know if you need proof of purchase to have this work done.

I have a dt50 that line6 say is covered by this bulletin but i'm not the original owner.

 

That's a good question, I would think you would need to but maybe not. You should call them or do a support ticket.

 

They just did my DT50 Head with that TSB, a new board and new power tubes and man it sounds fantastic to say the least. Very quiet noise floor now, even on the high gain channels, amazing. Can ya tell I'm happy :).

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Ok to ask?

 

Where can I find this Service Bulletin?

 

I have a DT50 head.

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Tech service bulletins are available to authorized Line 6 service centres. They are not public domain.

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Tech service bulletins are available to authorized Line 6 service centres. They are not public domain.

 

Really? So how is one to know if they need to have work done?  So much for Transparecy.

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I think we need to distinguish between a tech bulletin and an announcement or acknowledgement that there's a problem to be fixed.

 

The tech bulletin itself provides the detailed technical procedures involved in fixing a problem. It makes perfect sense that this is only available to qualified technicians, and is not public domain.

 

The fact that a problem exists in the first place is public domain knowledge. Must be, because the OP knows about the existence of the tech bulletin. Personally I don't know anything about it because I don't own a DT-50 and don't follow that forum. But I presume there have been discussions there about it, and anyone experiencing that issue should open a support ticket. The OP stated that Line 6 says the problem is covered by the tech bulletin. So I don't see any lack of transparency.

 

I guess that's how one knows if they need to have work done. They experience the problem and inquire/research re: its solution.

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I think we need to distinguish between a tech bulletin and an announcement or acknowledgement that there's a problem to be fixed.

 

The tech bulletin itself provides the detailed technical procedures involved in fixing a problem. It makes perfect sense that this is only available to qualified technicians, and is not public domain.

 

The fact that a problem exists in the first place is public domain knowledge. Must be, because the OP knows about the existence of the tech bulletin. Personally I don't know anything about it because I don't own a DT-50 and don't follow that forum. But I presume there have been discussions there about it, and anyone experiencing that issue should open a support ticket. The OP stated that Line 6 says the problem is covered by the tech bulletin. So I don't see any lack of transparency.

 

I guess that's how one knows if they need to have work done. They experience the problem and inquire/research re: its solution.

 

I assume the Tech bulliten is on the DT50, based on this tread alone. I have a DT25 combo so I'm guessing it doesn't apply to me. That's just the thing, where would one find the knowledge of what the issue is. One could very well have the problem but not have that knowledge as they are unaware of what the issue is to being with. Where is the public domain knowledge? Assume just becuase the problem is known to Line6 (and apparently is talking care of it) someone doesn't mean other know this.

 

I get the tech bullien would cover the technical details of the fix hence only available to tehnitions but surely there shold be somewhere logged of know issues?

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.... One could very well have the problem but not have that knowledge as they are unaware of what the issue is to being with. ....

Then what's the problem? The simple suspicion that you might have a problem that's not a problem for you because you don't notice anything wrong?

 

I find that life throws me enough problems that I don't have to go looking for them. :P

 

P.S. A quick google search turns up this:

http://line6.com/support/topic/4358-bulletin-59-recall-question/

http://line6.com/support/topic/431-technical-bulletin-059/

http://uk.line6.com/supportarchivenew/thread/148223

 

If you're worried, open a support ticket. Line 6 will quickly tell you if your DT-25 is affected.

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Then what's the problem? The simple suspicion that you might have a problem that's not a problem for you because you don't notice anything wrong?

 

I find that life throws me enough problems that I don't have to go looking for them. :P

 

So because you work around something you may not know is wrong, make it not a problem? Sorry don't see the logic there. A problem is a problem regardless of if you are aware of it or not. Again I don't think this applies to my setup but as advide reader on the support forums and someone that keeps my gear up to date. I would really like to know where I'm supposed to go to check issues so that I can see if they apply to me or not.

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When you get a response to your support ticket, ask Line 6 directly whether there are any known issues or other technical bulletins that apply to your device. That's the only way I know to get the comprehensive information you want.

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That's a good question, I would think you would need to but maybe not. You should call them or do a support ticket.

 

They just did my DT50 Head with that TSB, a new board and new power tubes and man it sounds fantastic to say the least. Very quiet noise floor now, even on the high gain channels, amazing. Can ya tell I'm happy :).

 Did you have to show a sales receipted when you had the work done or just take it in.

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 Did you have to show a sales receipted when you had the work done or just take it in.

 

I had to look back in an archived support ticket and the answer is yes I did. You should still ask them, the worst that can happen is they say no.

 

I tried to sum up what happened in this recent post.

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Just got work from Line6. My amp is covered.

 

"Hello,

The tech bulletin 059 is for all amps even if purchased used. They do not need the receipt to perform the work on it.

Regards,
Andrew
Product Support
Line 6"

 

:)

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Just got work from Line6. My amp is covered.

 

Good Going! Now get that amp fixed.

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It would be nice to know what's in the Tech Bulletin since it applies to all DT amps, new/used.

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The tech bulletin describes the detailed technical procedures for an authorized service centre to repair a hardware problem. The nature and impact of the problem is more relevant to the customers, and that can be found via Google. I posted some links earlier in this thread.

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I disagree, Silverhead, with your defense of Line 6's lack of transparency here.  I've had some symptoms with my DT50-115 that may have gone away or may be intermittent, and I'd like to know:

 

1) if my symptoms coincide with TSB 059;

2) what's at risk if I take a "wait and see" approach, which you senselessly advocated without reservation in this thread;

3) if my serial number is on the affected list;

4) if there's any fire hazard.

 

I've followed your links and these questions remain.  This information should be posted, not hidden in a closet, leaving customers in the dark.

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Whether or not you'd like it to be published information, the fact is that it's not. So you can complain about it here, or you can open a support ticket and ask Line 6. If you're having symptoms, you should be opening a support ticket, regardless of any tech bulletins.

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the bulletin has to do with a bad transformer... if your not blowing fuses and your amp turns on... you do not have issues related to this bulletin.

 

for the rest.... call with your serial number and i'm sure they will answer your questions...

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I had (and hopefully that remains in the past tense) over-heating.  A bad transformer could do that too, no?  (hopefully you say no, I'd rather not mess with it, but if it needs it then I have to)

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I had (and hopefully that remains in the past tense) over-heating.  A bad transformer could do that too, no?  (hopefully you say no, I'd rather not mess with it, but if it needs it then I have to)

 

I found this here: http://www.analogbros.com/tech/articles/goodgobad.html

 

Transformers

 

   All in all, guitar amp transformers are robust and very reliable. In the hundreds of amps we have repaired, only a few transformers were the cause of any problems. The typical transformer fault occurs when a winding opens up, usually due to an over-current, over-voltage or overheating condition; less common is a shorted winding resulting from the same "over" conditions. Both are usually "indirect" failures, caused by something else (a tube, capacitor, wiring) failing and generating the initial fault. There are two repair methods for defective transformers (once the underlying cause has been isolated and repaired); replacement or rewinding. Replacement is an option when an identical or very close substitution is available, but this may not be possible or desirable. Rewinding, though sometimes more costly than replacement, guarantees retaining the exact electrical specifications and physical dimensions of the original. It is also the best option when you wish to retain originality.

 

 

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Good post, Brazzy!  I read their whole article and found it very informative.  There is an information gap, though, as they say transformers only fail as an indirect result of some other failure, whereas Zap says the TSB is about bad transformers being the root cause.

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the bulletin has to do with a bad transformer... if your not blowing fuses and your amp turns on... you do not have issues related to this bulletin.

 

for the rest.... call with your serial number and i'm sure they will answer your questions...

 

Zap, is it possible for you to read my OP in a different thread and weigh in on my heat issue?  Brazzy has been very helpful, and after comparing notes we know that his DT50 head runs much cooler than my DT50-112.  Can my problem be due to a bad transformer ala TSB-059?  Am I just being overly-protective?  is my prized DT destined to be a boat anchor?  should I start getting Techs and Line 6 involved?  There aren't many who know amps like you do, so your thoughts here would be invaluable.

 

My OP is here:

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/11927-how-hot-should-my-dt50-get/

 

Thanks!

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by all means call them have them look at the serial number of your amp...

the bad transformers are in a known range... so they will tell you if you need the fix....

worth getting it done ahead of time if needed... 

but i don't think that heat is a symptom of the transformer issue...

mine was working fine and just popped a fuse one day when i turned it on...

replaced the fuse and they kept popping... sent it in... they did the transformer, tubes, and a bias.. been great since.

 

Zap, is it possible for you to read my OP in a different thread and weigh in on my heat issue?  Brazzy has been very helpful, and after comparing notes we know that his DT50 head runs much cooler than my DT50-112.  Can my problem be due to a bad transformer ala TSB-059?  Am I just being overly-protective?  is my prized DT destined to be a boat anchor?  should I start getting Techs and Line 6 involved?  There aren't many who know amps like you do, so your thoughts here would be invaluable.

 

My OP is here:

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/11927-how-hot-should-my-dt50-get/

 

Thanks!

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I bought my DT50-212 from Long and McQuade last week. This is a very loud and versatile amp. Far above my expectations. I have had no issues with it over the week but just thought I would send a ticket and ask. I specifically stated I had no issues. They said mine was one of the effected amps and recommended I bring it to a service shop. I brought the amp back to L&M and showed them the print out of the ticket. They are shipping it off to the Oshawa location where the head of Line6 Canada service is for L&M.

 

I also learned my new amp was built in 2010. I bought it brand new right out of the box. Maybe that's why they are on sale for $1399. How many more are sitting on the shelves?

 

I still think I got a great deal. Not sour at all about having to send it in.

 

If I find out what they replaced I'll update the post.

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I bought my DT50-212 from Long and McQuade last week. This is a very loud and versatile amp. Far above my expectations.

 

Same here the DT50 HD (Sept 2010 build) and DT25 Ext Cab has exceeded my expectations too. When I purchased it, I knew it might have issues since I was reading the archived forum before it was archived. So I was prepared for the worse. I also knew that it was a special amp, adaptive, is the word used to describe this creation.

 

I used it for a while had some wierdness, it worked again, then failed, put new OEM tubes in it, rebiased, then it worked for a short while and then quit all together. It quit completely 13 months after I received it and Line 6 still fixed it up.

 

When they resurrected it, aahhhhhhhh man that things works great. The noise floor is better than it was when new, I know that for sure.

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Brazzy, what did they replace on yours?

 

Replaced the main board, did TBS 059, and replaced the power tubes is what I was told.

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Replaced the main board, did TBS 059, and replaced the power tubes is what I was told.

Thanks. Nice to know!

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I bought my DT50-212 from Long and McQuade last week. This is a very loud and versatile amp. Far above my expectations. I have had no issues with it over the week but just thought I would send a ticket and ask. I specifically stated I had no issues. They said mine was one of the effected amps and recommended I bring it to a service shop. I brought the amp back to L&M and showed them the print out of the ticket. They are shipping it off to the Oshawa location where the head of Line6 Canada service is for L&M.

 

I also learned my new amp was built in 2010. I bought it brand new right out of the box. Maybe that's why they are on sale for $1399. How many more are sitting on the shelves?

 

I still think I got a great deal. Not sour at all about having to send it in.

 

If I find out what they replaced I'll update the post.

 

Marcus2323, were you told they were going to replace transformers and/or whatnot?  Or are they merely checking it out?  I just called today and found out that my amp, like yours, is in the s/n range where I could have the defective transformer(s).  Being that I bought it used, I have no retail outlet to support me.  It sounds as though nothing will be done until such time as my amp actually breaks down, which really doesn't allow me to depend on it for gigs (if and when I get gigs).

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Hi mtreehugger,

 

The email I got said I should take it in and have them repair it. I made it very clear to the support people as well as at the store that I am not having any issues that I am aware of. They took it with out any questions. I gave the store a copy of the support ticket for reference as well.

 

All that to say that they didn't tell me what, if anything, would be fixed/replaced.

 

I will update here once I get it back....hopefully next week!

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.....Being that I bought it used, I have no retail outlet to support me. It sounds as though nothing will be done until such time as my amp actually breaks down, ....

Did Line 6 support say this? Their usual policy, once a problem has been acknowledged with a TSB, is to ask the user to take the device to any authorized service center (regardless of the device's ownership history) and have the TSB applied at no cost to the current owner. I think the situation described by Marcus2323 is normal. You should be able to take it in and have it fixed even if you are not currently showing symptoms. I would ask Line 6 again if they told you you have no support. If you encounter resistance, point them to this thread and suggest they treat you like they are treating Marcus.

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Did Line 6 support say this? Their usual policy, once a problem has been acknowledged with a TSB, is to ask the user to take the device to any authorized service center (regardless of the device's ownership history) and have the TSB applied at no cost to the current owner. I think the situation described by Marcus2323 is normal. You should be able to take it in and have it fixed even if you are not currently showing symptoms. I would ask Line 6 again if they told you you have no support. If you encounter resistance, point them to this thread and suggest they treat you like they are treating Marcus.

 

Silverhead, thanks so much for the support!  I'm sorry I wasn't clear and neither was Line 6 (David).  I do not have a 30-day return or RETAILER support like Marcus 2323.  His store is handling it because otherwise he would probably return it.  When I found out my amp was on the list, I really was expecting the same treatment he got, and was surprised and disappointed when that didn't take place.  Now I'm kind of in limbo.

 

I did not learn much about Line 6's support beyond being told that I should bring it in to get it checked out.   He did not tell me much beyond this.  I wish he would have.  He said that my amp "could be" affected by TSB 059, but that only a very few of those with s/n's on the list are actually affected.  (???)  I did tell him that my amp has 4 months' transferable warranty remaining.  

 

I spoke with a tech from a L6 service center afterward, and when I asked if he could determine if I have the bad transformer(s) as Line 6 stated, he said usually the transformers go bad in the first year.  In other words, (my take on this is) they need to see failure to be certain that replacement is required.  Because the guy I bought the amp from swears he only used it for 2 hours (I'm thinking 10-20 in reality), I won't have a full year's use by the time my warranty expires, so my transformers' likelihood of failure won't have been fully tested out when my warranty expires.  So now I have an amp that could go belly up anytime in the next 11 months, after which I should feel more secure that at least TSB 059 won't bite me.

 

I can understand not wanting to repair amps that might not be broken, but it seems wrong to me to be saddled with an "at-risk" amp and a wait and see approach.  The amp is so versatile and sounds so great, but now I very much wish I would have bought something else that is more reliable.

 

Edit 2-24-15:  After sleeping on it, I realize I'm not so much "saddled" with an at-risk amp, it's just that I wasn't told that this was a defect and (in effect) a recall, which was what I would have expected.  Instead, I got more of a seemingly reluctant concession that bringing the amp in for a diagnostic was an option for me.  I was told my amp "could be" affected by TSB 059, which I found strange given that it is one of the affected serial numbers.  Because it is under warranty, I am able to bring it in for a warranty diagnostic service, and as such I can't say I'm "saddled" with the problem.  However, if after the diagnostic I'm told "it looks good so far so we didn't do anything..." well, then I would consider myself as being saddled because it is unreliable, at-risk, and un-repaired.

 

I'm dropping it off for the diagnostic after work today.  I do expect that some repair will be made, and will report back when the service is complete or if I have any further news.

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....

I spoke with a tech from a L6 service center afterward, and when I asked if he could determine if I have the bad transformer(s) as Line 6 stated, he said usually the transformers go bad in the first year. In other words, (my take on this is) they need to see failure to be certain that replacement is required. ....

So apart from saying they usually go bad early, he didn't actually answer your question, right? I would call again and tell them you need to pursue this. You want to know with certainty whether or not your specific amp is covered under warranty for a no-cost repair, even if it is not currently exhibiting symptoms. Push for an answer. If the answer is yes then take it in for your free repair. If the answer is no then you can be confident that you won't experience the problem, and life goes on.....

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So apart from saying they usually go bad early, he didn't actually answer your question, right? I would call again and tell them you need to pursue this. You want to know with certainty whether or not your specific amp is covered under warranty for a no-cost repair, even if it is not currently exhibiting symptoms. Push for an answer. If the answer is yes then take it in for your free repair. If the answer is no then you can be confident that you won't experience the problem, and life goes on.....

 

I'm sorry, in what scenario can I be confident I won't I experience the problem?

 

Thanks for the advice on calling back!!!

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In the scenario that you discover that your particular amp is not among the serial numbers that are known to potentially have this specific problem. That means it does not have this specific problem. That, of course, is not to say it will never have any problem.

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In the scenario that you discover that your particular amp is not among the serial numbers that are known to potentially have this specific problem. That means it does not have this specific problem. That, of course, is not to say it will never have any problem.

 

He already answered that, and yes, my amp is among those s/n's.

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