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ChaserHUN

Connecting POD HD to PA System

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Ok, so my question is, I know the XLR doesn't sum to mono, would it sound the same to plug both XLRs to the PA and have the guitar panned in the moddle, or if I just want to go with one xlr pan it 100% left and go that way to the PA, would it sound the same? Not using any stereo effects....

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A good soundguy is going to run in mono anyhow. 

He may not tell you because he doesn't want know-it-all musicians to insist on stereo or surround sound. 

But it is probably mono. 

 

 

You will sound the same with both channels centered. 

 

The one thing to be on the lookout for, is when you do use stereo effects. What sounds good in headphones or on a studio album may not translate live. A panned effect when ran mono is just effect. A left echo that is different than a right echo comes out like a double echo. Little things like that. 

 

 

 

There may be some minute volume issues between having the two channels split l/r vs center. But that is why each channel on the board has a level. 

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So having example panned 100% and going one XLR cable to the board will sound as good as having both XLR cable plugged down and having my sound panned to the center?

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A good soundguy is going to run in mono anyhow. 

 

I have to disagree with this - in certain rooms and with certain bands and with certain PA systems I would agree but not always.

 

I run dual amps and stereo effects all the time and it sounds massive through our DnB system

 

Matt

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I have to disagree with this - in certain rooms and with certain bands and with certain PA systems I would agree but not always.

 

I run dual amps and stereo effects all the time and it sounds massive through our DnB system

 

Matt

 

 

 

So, you're saying that if you run stereo and have something panned left, that the people on the right will understand why you are making your sexface but there's no noise. 

 

 

 

Hey, I saw Pink Floyd at Veteran's Stadium with their surround sound tour. 

I had excellent seats to enjoy the full sound and light experience. But I could imagine being seated by one of the speakers and having it be too loud in he mix due to proximity. 

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In a live situation, do the sound guy pan one guitar on left and the other on the right? I played lots of times live, didn't really pay attention to this, or both guitars come from both sides? I know on DVDs it's panned left and right like on a studio recording, but thats a different thing.

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soundguys run in mono in small bars.

in large stages with pro equipment they do not...

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In small, mid-size clubs, and even small halls, your ear will still tend to separate the sound as a stereo image. Your ears will tell you your hearing the guitarist on the right and the one on the left as a stereo image IF the guitarists are set up that way on stage. The Beatles, for example, always set up with Paul's bass amp on the left while George was in the center and John was on the right. I'm sure that is where your ears would place them if you were in a club or small arena. By the time they got to large arenas it was all on the sound guy.

Stereo panning has a lot to do with how your guitar fills the room. I have always been adamant about the venue having pro quality stereo sound. If they don't have it, we bring in our own.

That being said, the hd still sounds phenomenal when ran mono. It just really depends on how ticky you are about getting the best out of your gear.

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Running separate amps on both sides to control tone and volume individually is not what I mean when I say running in stereo. 

To me, I am not going to go see KISS and hear Paul Stanley's guitar or voice coming out of only the right side. Nor will I go see the Philharmonic Orchestra and be upset that I sat on the right side because the Lead Viola was coming out of only the left.

 

Yes, splitting the left and right volumes to be able to control the mix is sometimes needed. But for the most part, everyone is going to be coming out of both sides as if it was mono.

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I have to disagree with this - in certain rooms and with certain bands and with certain PA systems I would agree but not always.

 

I run dual amps and stereo effects all the time and it sounds massive through our DnB system

 

Matt

 +1. I agree with Mynameismatt. Running mono can fit a small bar sometimes. But there are plenty of times when it make sense to run Stereo, particually if you have effects on the vocals (stereo flat out just sounds better on some of them) and if you have guitars amps that can be heard in the audience on one side of the stage but not the other. Not talking about running completely hard left and hard right here, just leveling the left to right sound field. You can use the pan control on the board to create a more level sound and kill that proximity effect as well. On local bands the main reason I have seen that most use mono is because they can double the power of the amps by running them in bridge mono mode. Most people seem to think blowing the ear drums of the audience is par for the course, please I'm not implying this is anyone here just something I've observered way to often in small venues.

 

On huge stage pro stage, you will probably not be able to tell if the sound system is stereo or mono. That's what those guys specialize in, they are good at it and know when to use one or the other and how and where to place and angle the speakers. Hard line statements like "A good sound guy always runs mono" are rarely correct. A good sound guy runs what fits the venue and the band.  KISS is a band I would suspect to run a PA more mono. There music is straight up rock. The guitars growl and don't use much effects. And of course they are likely playing a huge stage where the sound coming out of the Amp itself is only likely to be heard on first couple of rows.  But then take someone like U2 where the Edge has all these reverbs and ping-pong delays. I would suspect they will run a more Stereo. Maybe not hard right and left but enough so you can tell the repeats moving around. Althought the Vocal mic itself is likely panned staright up any Reverb, Chorus, Delay, etc... is likely coming over a Stereo channel on the board so the wet effected signal is a stereo. If you have the system setup mono then it sums that which works but not quite as well.

 

To the original post, if you running not using any Stereo effects then the left XLR out to channel either panned straight up or if the system is setup mono is probably gonna sound pretty good althought you might have to make up a bit of gain on the board. If I was going direct with Stereo effects then I would either run both XLR to a Stereo channel on the board or to two channels with one panned hard left and the other hard right. Otherwise why use Stereo effects if you not going to get the full usage out of them.

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On local bands the main reason I have seen that most use mono is because they can double the power of the amps by running them in bridge mono mode. Most people seem to think blowing the ear drums of the audience is par for the course, please I'm not implying this is anyone here just something I've observered way to often in small venues.

 

 

WHAT?!?!?

 

It's just not a Friday night if you don't scream yourself hoarse ordering a beer...lol

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If there is a sound system 9 times out of 10 there is a sound man present.  In my experience if he takes two feeds off of the board he will know to run it stereo.  If he wants a mono signal he will only take one and will ask you which one you want Left or Right.  Left should be mono.

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 +1. I agree with Mynameismatt. Running mono can fit a small bar sometimes. But there are plenty of times when it make sense to run Stereo, particually if you have effects on the vocals (stereo flat out just sounds better on some of them) and if you have guitars amps that can be heard in the audience on one side of the stage but not the other. Not talking about running completely hard left and hard right here, just leveling the left to right sound field. You can use the pan control on the board to create a more level sound and kill that proximity effect as well. On local bands the main reason I have seen that most use mono is because they can double the power of the amps by running them in bridge mono mode. Most people seem to think blowing the ear drums of the audience is par for the course, please I'm not implying this is anyone here just something I've observered way to often in small venues.

 

On huge stage pro stage, you will probably not be able to tell if the sound system is stereo or mono. That's what those guys specialize in, they are good at it and know when to use one or the other and how and where to place and angle the speakers. Hard line statements like "A good sound guy always runs mono" are rarely correct. A good sound guy runs what fits the venue and the band.  KISS is a band I would suspect to run a PA more mono. There music is straight up rock. The guitars growl and don't use much effects. And of course they are likely playing a huge stage where the sound coming out of the Amp itself is only likely to be heard on first couple of rows.  But then take someone like U2 where the Edge has all these reverbs and ping-pong delays. I would suspect they will run a more Stereo. Maybe not hard right and left but enough so you can tell the repeats moving around. Althought the Vocal mic itself is likely panned staright up any Reverb, Chorus, Delay, etc... is likely coming over a Stereo channel on the board so the wet effected signal is a stereo. If you have the system setup mono then it sums that which works but not quite as well.

 

To the original post, if you running not using any Stereo effects then the left XLR out to channel either panned straight up or if the system is setup mono is probably gonna sound pretty good althought you might have to make up a bit of gain on the board. If I was going direct with Stereo effects then I would either run both XLR to a Stereo channel on the board or to two channels with one panned hard left and the other hard right. Otherwise why use Stereo effects if you not going to get the full usage out of them.

 

 

Yup.  The application of "stereo" in most live situations that are the exception is actually more about spreading an image, so for instance, your mono guitar signal from the SM57 mic'ing your cab, or the xlr out of HD500X will hit FOH with a unity gain signal, they'll assign it to 2 channels, add a slight delay just to spread the image, then they'll pan them left & right accordingly.  We're not talking about panning delays/reverbs, & such.  9 out of 10 times when you have a stereo guitar rig, the audience isn't hearing all the panning effects from their perspective that you hear from your 2 cabs right behind you because the context of your placement in relation to those cabs cannot be duplicated to every single seat in the house.  So, say you have a chorus effect on one cab, and dry on the other.  The audience member isn't going to notice & say, "isn't it remarkable that even though these are crappy seats, that I can still hear that the guitar player is playing a wet/dry stereo setup!". 

 

This is one of the reasons that I went to a completely mono setup after 25 years of playing in stereo with dual cabs & such, only to have FOH only give me one channel on the board anyway.  As a result, I no longer have to deal with phase issues, I sit right in the mix in just the right way, and it serves the overall mix best, which is often the one thing that individual instrumentalists do not consider as they want to take up as much space in the mix as possible with no conseration of the other instruments within the band and the overall presentation.

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