Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
cclement

FRFR users: Looking for input

Recommended Posts

Hey all,

 

Currently I am running the HD500X outputs into the FX return of my Vetta II combo – with the HD500X set to “Combo Power Amp†for the output and an “empty†patch on the Vetta II. And for the most part I’ve been pretty happy with this combination – albeit after some good amount of tweaking.

 

But now I’m toying with the idea of going to a FRFR rig with my HD500x. While what I have works well… but it feels like I might be better off going the FRFR route. I had band rehearsal last night and it just didn’t sound as good as I think it can.

 

So my question is for those of you who run FRFR rigs… and more importantly gigging rigs:

  1. What speaker setup did you end up going with?
  2. Are you running Mono or Stereo?
  3. Why did you choose that particular speaker setup?

 

I’ve seen some talk about the Alto speakers… and the Line6 L2t looks very nice, but is also a bit spendy.

 

Thanks in advance for your input.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Alto TS112A...I use both left and right inputs, but I just have the same signal on both channels.  Chose it due to price range and stellar reviews from others.  That coupled with an epsi sounds miles better than my previous am setup.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey all,

 

Currently I am running the HD500X outputs into the FX return of my Vetta II combo – with the HD500X set to “Combo Power Amp†for the output and an “empty†patch on the Vetta II. And for the most part I’ve been pretty happy with this combination – albeit after some good amount of tweaking.

 

But now I’m toying with the idea of going to a FRFR rig with my HD500x. While what I have works well… but it feels like I might be better off going the FRFR route. I had band rehearsal last night and it just didn’t sound as good as I think it can.

 

So my question is for those of you who run FRFR rigs… and more importantly gigging rigs:

  • What speaker setup did you end up going with?
  • Are you running Mono or Stereo?
  • Why did you choose that particular speaker setup?

I’ve seen some talk about the Alto speakers… and the Line6 L2t looks very nice, but is also a bit spendy.

 

Thanks in advance for your input.

1) L2T

2) mono

3) I wanted the flexibility of the various modes (specifically the acoustic guitar mode). I play in an acoustic duo occasionally, and it's small and works nicely for that. For full band gigs I intend to use it mostly as a monitor and run the POD out to FOH. The onboard accelerometer knows when it's sitting on its side an can compensate for low-end coupling when it's sitting on the floor.

 

BUT...there are still L2T's out there with the older fan assembly that rattles at higher volumes. I've had mine repaired once already, and it still had the problem. It's currently back at L6, being repaired a second time. I'm hoping that this will take care of it, as I absolutely love how this thing sounds...except when I get loud. It's an obnoxious rattle...

 

However, there are plenty out there that have not suffered from this problem, so as long as you don't get a lemon, you will likely be thrilled at how it sounds.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just started going direct to PA for practices a few weeks ago, and I'm getting better all the time at tweaking my tones.  I'm looking forward to the Global EQ update for the 500x because then I can just tweak to the venue instead of having to eq all my patches every show.  I think I might post my live patches soon, maybe next time I haul my 500x into the computer room for a backup so folks can tell me what they think.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would say first L2T. Second would be an Alesis Alpha 112 100 Watt 2-way speaker. It has a Neodynium horn driver which is really smooth. I'm using that currently for a stage sound source and man this thing is LOUD!! So I run a stereo feed direct to FOH and I have the Alpha on the floor behind me filling in the stage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use a Crown XLS 1000 PA amp -- Class D bridged in mono, and around 11 lbs in a soft sided 2 space rack by Road Runner, and a Yorkville NX35 speaker. With the amp in bridged mode, the 8 Ohm Yorkville & Amp have a peak rating of 700 watts. When I'm in a venue that is loud, like a fair or other outside venue, I add a 2nd Yorkville, and the peak rating of the 4 Ohm speaker combination is 1100 watts. The reality I've found is that I expect about half of the peak rating with the solid state amp, and actually have about 300 watts of power comparable to the wattage of a tube type amp, as solid state amps begin clipping at their peak rating, so the 1/2 rating gives me the headroom that's needed, which I rarely crank all the way up with this rig.

 

I first tried guitar speakers with different amps, but found them to be accentuating the mid range frequencies too much. I run the 1/4" un-balanced output from the HD500X at line level (that the amp needs) to the Crown, and a balanced XLR with the ground switch lifted to the FOH sound man. This output sends mic-level signal to the soundman's board.

 

I was disappointed that with the HD500(X) sends the same signal EQ to to both outputs, unlike the X3Live that I replaced. That model was switchable, so I could send the soundboard a full range signal independent of what I sent out the 1/4" jacks to the stage amp. When I adjusted the 500(x) signal to what sounded good with the stage amp & guitar speakers, the sound out the XLR's to the FOH was not so good. I also found when I sent an FRFR signal to the FOH, I could not get guitar speakers to sound good -- using full models, as the full models simulate speakers with mid-heavy frequencies going into mid-heavy guitar speakers, making the mids over-emphasized. We avoid extra open mic's by going direct -- 2 guitar players and bass -- we all go direct. Cuts down on feedback, and all the extra amplification of noise-bleed of stage noise...

 

I also use acoustic JTV guitar models in my sets, and it did not sound good on stage. I made the move to the Crown Amp and PA speaker as monitor, so I was hearing what goes to the FOH, and it gives me very natural sounding acoustics both on stage and to the FOH... I use full amp models and the Studio output mode.I bought the 2 Yorkvilles from our sound man when he moved from a power rack and passive subs & speakers to Yorkville self powered arrays & subs, and have been very happy with the outcome.

 

Our soundman runs mono for FOH, and we've talked about running stereo, but our setup varies greatly depending on the venue -- from small bars to outside festivals and fairs. It's different in every situation. In some of the small venues he runs a single stack of speakers, some he runs 2 speaker stacks, and outside and larger venues he rolls out much more, so the stereo situations would be sometimes, sometimes not -- hard to develop a consistent approach and I'd believe a stereo mix would need to be tweaked and fine tuned to get a really good stereo sound field -- I would love it, but honestly it would be lost on the majority of the audience, as there's typically so much ambient extra sound going on. We're weekenders, so don't usually have the luxury of long set ups and long sound checks to tweak the finer points. We're more hit & run -- set up and go.

 

I did try a Carvin self-powered speaker, but it didn't cut it for me at the time. It sounded "brittle" to me, was too close to clipping -- not enough power head room. I was trying many different approaches at the time, so I returned that one. bought different raw speakers and tried them in different monitor cabs. It took me quite a bit of time to get to where I am happy with the stage AND the FOH sound, and it's finally at the point of where I am very pleased with my rig. With an amp model dialed in through FRFR, then being able to go with full range acoustic sound at the tap of a footswitch, and back to an overdriven amp is sweet. Even better that what I hear and am happy with is going exactly the same out to the front of house...

 

YMMV

Dave

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I purchased a QSC K8 about 5 years ago and absolutely love it. It's about 1/4th the weight and size of the Roland KC-500 I used to use, but at least as powerful if not more.

 

It's been powerful enough to use as the only sound source for my guitar + keys (not even going into the PA) on small to medium gigs. For large venues I also go into the PA.

 

It lacks the extremely low bass (below about 65 Hz) but for my style, I don't need it (low E is 82 Hz after all) and in the context of a band, too much bass in the 6-string guitar just muddies the overall sound.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At home I use an Alto TS110A inputting both XLR channels.

 

Live, I go XLR direct to PA, and then 1/4" left summed to a Kustom 12" powered monitor (don't remember the model number). Between the 3 (Alto, Kustom, and PA), I get fairly close tones to each.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I Can recommend Proel Wedge WD12 -or some other Active coaxial stage monitors. I use 2 in a stereo setup, link to PA - The coax is very good reg. to avoid feedback - it Sounds wonderful, i paid just about 300$ a pcs

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I started out going from the HD500 into the power amp in of a Line 6 Spyder valve and the into a 2 X12 speaker cab. It sounded pretty good, but still colored the sound enough that I couldn't quite nail some of the classic rock tones I was going for. I am also now over 50 and the less gear I have to take to a gig the better.

 

I am now using the L2m speaker with the HD500 and my Variax guitar. It now sounds closer to the tones I have been trying to nail. I put the speaker on a tripod stand so I can hear myself better than ever before. I can switch from acoustic to electric with footswitch. I don't have to turn up too loud to get the tubes in the power amp cooking to sound good. There is more powers in the L2m than I will ever need for a gig as well.

 

I play 60s and 70s classic rock and perform about twice a month.

 

-Max

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I used a solid state Fender 1x12 combo for 3 or 4 years with the HD500, into the FX return.

Ended up not liking trying to use floor monitors or PA related solutions. Went with the DT25 and an L2t around the same time.

Each sounds great; DT limits the acoustic tones a bit.

 

Main benefit for using an L2 with your rig, is it allows an extra "configurable" output option.

 

Using the HD500 in studio direct, you would be able to still feed the "main mix" with a stereo, mic level, XLR pair direct out of the HD500 - while using the Line6Link to send a mono summed signal to the L2 speaker.

 

You could do the same with a 1/4" cable - but the L2 has "speaker modes" which can be saved to the HD500 on a per patch basis; switch from an acoustic patch to an electric patch, and the L2 can change up the "monitored sound", in theory, preserving your main mix send to the PA un altered.

 

For me, I still like the tube amp vibe. DT25 is a cool amp, and has the mic level XLR out as well; different sides of a similar coin.

If you are leaning FRFR, you can create a library of patches, and they will, for the most part, remain somewhat consistent, as you go from something like a Roland keyboard amp, or to a powered monitor or speaker, or a Stagesource speaker. In studio/direct, so much of the tonal shaping is occuring in the HD500, as opposed to the speaker, that your patches will remain consistent.

 

Going to the DT amps, you basically reconfigure everything, with the idea that the amp and HD500 "share" the tone creation duties. The HD500 does the signal processing, effects, routing, and preamps of each amp model.

 

The DT amp does the actual power amp portion of the signal, and also contains the final cabinet emulated, transformer (tube) output audio.

Not a "headphones" solution. And you need two of them if you want to do wet / dry or stereo..

 

 Nice thing about the single FRFR speaker, is you keep your stage sound mono - better for performance, but leave the stereo option on the table for the soundguy. Depending on how you program your patches, with a combination of the HD500 mixer settings, dual amp models, and using post amp model stereo effects, you can get some cool spatial sounds. Then, you can still pan back to center in another patch, to tighten up the sound - though, that isn't something you would experience on stage, and if you didn't tell your soundguy that's what you were going to do, he might flip out or be confused, or excited who knows.

 

For a cheap, decent FRFR option, get a broken in used Roland stereo keyboard amp. Those typically have several inputs, and also usually some kind of output, often XLR out with a ground lift- but if you needed to, send the keyboard amp 1/4" signals, and send the XLR to the main mix.

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/KC880  $999.00 (new)

https://reverb.com/item/20561-roland-kc-880-keyboard-amp-used $699 (used)

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/KC550  $649.00 (new)

https://reverb.com/item/517708-roland-kc-550-w-flight-case $500 with a flight case (used)

 

Sweetwater had briefly dropped the L3 prices last year, I should have got some then - they are back up to the regular price now.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks everyone for your input.. much food for thought.

 

I patched my HD500 into my M-Audio BX8s (my home studio monitors) last night, and with a little tweaking to my patches, was able to get some tones that are closer to what I want. So now I'm even more inclined to take the FRFR plunge.

 

As much as I think the L2m would probably be the perfect addition to my rig, it's quite hard to justify the $750 for it - especially when the Alto TS110A (which many on here seem to use and like) are only $250 each and I don't gig that often with the band.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are looking for something close to the l2ts consider the Yamaha FRX10. It's a little cheaper (599.99), at least one player at the Kemper forum did a side by side and like them better than the l2t (I looked all over for a comparison/review, but could not find one), and they offer a little different set of options for inputs and connectivity if you think of possibly getting 2. There is a sale at Sweetwater where you get a 6 channel mixer 'for free' if you buy 2 ;-). I hate those ... Why don't they just lower the price for 2?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh yes, too many acronyms. Yamaha DXR10 iswhat I meant ;-(.

Sorry for any confusion,

Martin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've had good luck using a POD with a Roland AC90, going into the stereo inputs in the back. This works great for low demand situations, and is useful for acoustic guitar and vocals at the same time.

 

I also have an home-made Tremolux Cabinet with two Eminence Beta-10CX 10†coaxial speakers, ASD:1001 compression drivers and crossovers that is driven by a Haffler Transnova power amp. I use this with the HD500X or with MainStage and S-Gear. I don't remember what this cost as I built it in pieces. Probably don't what to know. But it does sound pretty good.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey all,

 

Currently I am running the HD500X outputs into the FX return of my Vetta II combo – with the HD500X set to “Combo Power Amp†for the output and an “empty†patch on the Vetta II. And for the most part I’ve been pretty happy with this combination – albeit after some good amount of tweaking.

 

But now I’m toying with the idea of going to a FRFR rig with my HD500x. While what I have works well… but it feels like I might be better off going the FRFR route. I had band rehearsal last night and it just didn’t sound as good as I think it can.

 

So my question is for those of you who run FRFR rigs… and more importantly gigging rigs:

  1. What speaker setup did you end up going with?
  2. Are you running Mono or Stereo?
  3. Why did you choose that particular speaker setup?

 

I’ve seen some talk about the Alto speakers… and the Line6 L2t looks very nice, but is also a bit spendy.

 

Thanks in advance for your input.

 

I gig mostly smallish bars and clubs with a few private party's here and there. I went for an L3m (don't need the mixer)- L6 link- HD500  -vdi -JTV. I go mono and it sounds awesome. The Stagesource range IS a bit pricey but I think the connectability to the rest of the dream rig is worth the extra. I love how I can switch speaker modes per patch, going from full on rock to fantastic acoustic tones with the press of a button. For a covers band that flexibility is fantastic.

 

To be honest I think I would have been fine with the L2 as the L3 is insanely loud. I could have saved myself a bit of weight but at the end of the day I have a rig that sounds like absolutely anything I want it to consisting of guitar, pod, speaker and 2 cables; set up time 5 minutes!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...