Creating Volume Settings For XLR Outputs...?

[DarkEdge]

Maybe that isn't quite the appropriate title but let me briefly explain what I am asking. :)

I'll be using my patches for a church/studio/mixer settings and I want all of my patches to be the same volume output so it is consistent across the board (pun not intended).

I have a db meter that I'll use with my computer to establish my base volume settings. My question is what/how do I want to save my patches so that they are consistent?

 

I am thinking that the master knob on my hd500x will be at 100%, leave the amp master and volumes settings as they are for the patch (that way the amp tones are the same) and I adjust the Volume knob on the board to match my db base peak level (??). Does this sound like the path I want to take? Will the patches recognize different board Volume settings?

 

How do you all make your volumes consistent from patch to patch? Again, I have a db meter that I use from my computer that recognizes the output from the pod so that isn't the issue, I'm just unsure what to tweak withing the pod for consistent volumes from the outputs?

 

Thanks so much! :D

[amsdenj]

There are 7 controls that interact to give distortion and volume.

 

1. Drive - sets the gain into the amp model preamp and controls preamp distortion

2. Master Volume - sets the volume into the amp model power amp and controls power amp distortion

Preamp and power amp distortion sound different, so the relative settings of these controls set the amount and color of the overall amp's distortion. Set these first to get the tone you want. Its generally best to use the smallest amount of distortion needed to fit the song.

3. Channel Volume - controls the relative volume of each patch. This is the control you adjust with your dB meter to balance the volume between patches. All of the above are saved in the patch. Adjust this after you have the distortion and tone you want for the patches.

4. Volume - the POD output volume for all patches. Start with this about 3/4 way up. It provides a convenient control for you to adjust the overall volume of all your patches up or down into the PA.

5. PA Input Gain - set this to ensure proper signal levels into the PA, ensuring there is no clipping into the PA even if you turn the POD volume all the way up.

6. PA channel strip volume - sets the volume of your instrument relative to the rest of the band, usually controlled by the sound man.

7. PA master volume - sets the overall volume of the band to the audience.

[brue58ski]

I am thinking that the master knob on my hd500x will be at 100%, leave the amp master and volumes settings as they are for the patch (that way the amp tones are the same) and I adjust the Volume knob on the board to match my db base peak level (??). Does this sound like the path I want to take? Will the patches recognize different board Volume settings?

 

 

Thanks so much! :D

 

Yes. Keep master knob at the same position all the time. Use the Volume knob to adjust all of the relative levels.  I keep my Master knob at 3 o'clock to give me a little leeway in case the audio guy wants a little more level.

[silverhead]

There's also the mixer in the HD500X. You can adjust volume there on a patch specific basis with no impact on tone. I would use this as step 3a in the above list on patches where the channel volume at max might still leave the patch a little quiet relative to the others.

[pfsmith0]

+1 to using Channel Volume to match loudness of each patch.

 

+0.5 to using the Mixer if Channel Volume doesn't give you enough range. I doubt you will need this.

[MartinDorr]

All HD volume or output gain controls (except MASTER) should be primarily used to keep you HD internal signals at a healthy level. My take on 'healthy' is that I avoid -12dBFS peaks between models (measured via USB). I did quite of bit of measuring before coming to that conclusion and it is driven by noticing that all models I ever checked seem to start soft compression/clipping somewhere between -12 and -9dBFS. Now, I am not saying that you can't use this effect to your advantage. I am just saying that if you use channel volume or output gain dials to adjust signal levels between models the effect of those dials will change tone (and not just level) if your peaks exceed -12dBFS by more than a few dB. As said earlier, MASTER is most useful to adjust your volume to your room.

 

'amsdenj' mentioned above that 'Master Volume' controls the power amp model. This is the 'MASTER' dial in the AMP PARAMETERS section  of the HD edit SW or the soft dial 1 controlling MASTER of the 2/5 AMP:EDIT menu on the HD itself. Don't confuse it with the physical 'MASTER' volume dial to the left of the HD pedal. The dedicated MASTER knob just changes signal levels as far as I can tell. While not as sure about the mixer, I think the mixer seems to do the same on a per path basis. Be careful though with the mixer because in many tone setups there are effects after the mixer and if you hit the mixer with a healthy level of -12dBFS and set gain to anything much above +3dB you will cause soft compression / clipping in the effects after the mixer.

 

A good practice to get a solid starting point is to measure the level of your guitar input w/o any effect and amp models with mixer a 0dB gain. Add an initial effect like studio EQ to rais the level so that peaks stay below -12dBFS. Add effects and amps step by step while maintaining output level.

[amsdenj]

I didn't include the mixer control in my list because I consider it as a means of mixing the A and B paths, not as part of the overall gain staging. If you don't have dual paths, then the mixer is best set at 0dB with path A full left and path B full right. There's no reason to use the mixer control for gain staging. If it appears before any effects, then the stage before it should be set so that unity gain into and out of the mixer provides the proper level. If its at the end of the Post-amp path, then it does essentially the same thing as the channel volume, but is less convenient because there's no dedicate knob.

 

Martin, I think you're telling us something important and I want to make sure I understand correctly. Most plugins/effects have a sweet spot where they behave the best. They are often designed to do this at 0dbVU which is essentially the same as -18dBFS, or similar to the -12dBFS Martin is recommending. If you start with that much headroom with no amps or effect blocks - its what you see in the audio interface, and then use more or less unity gain through each block, you'll likely be close to each effect's sweet spot, and won't be introducing any unintentional clipping at the input of any block. I setup plugins in my DAW the same way.

 

Martin, do I have that right? If so, then an approach to gain staging for the HD500 might be:

1. Start with your guitar input, and all effects and amp blocks off.

2. Set your audio interface, or the input gain on the PA to -12dBFS or so to give plenty of headroom and avoid digital clipping

3. Add or turn on the effect blocks on at a time and adjust their output level to maintain the -12dbFS at the audio interface or PA

4. Do the same thing with the Amp block

5. All distortion should be done through distortion effects or the amp block (controlled by the master volume), and not clipping at the inputs of any block or the PA itself

6. Controll overall volume by the output of the PA

[MartinDorr]

Yep, that's my basic plan of attack.

 

In practice I have never seen digital clipping that actually cuts off waveforms when a signal comes out of the HD. It is really a gradual effect similar to the soft clipping feature in some analog preamps. If you intentionally make it happen you will hardly hear anything from -12dB up to -9dB or bit higher. The only thing you might detect is a smaller difference between peak and RMS signal levels, i.e., a sign of harmonic distorition getting added. If you push the level higher you will hear clear compression followed by mild and then severe distortion, all below 0dBFS. Try the Studio EQ for example. It does not color the tone, but it sure changes if you get up into the -6dB range output leel and higher.

 

That said, some downloadable tones may actually use this compression/distorion of an effect or the amp model somewhere in the signal chain and the originator came up with a result he liked. Its no good to try and 'fix' the tone because some compression/distortion will be lost and need to replaced with an explicit effect in the path ... usually not worth the trouble unless someone is rebuilding a tone from scratch and just borrows ideas from the original.

 

Good luck playing with this. If you come in at a healthy level amp Drive and and similar effect parameters work amazingly well even though you use lower model output gains (channel volume on amps) to stay at the healthy level and keep peaks from hitting above -12dBFS.

 

If your tones are on the high gain side you will find that peaks will come down if you keep the subjective volume constant as you add effects to the chain. So if you are after high output volumes and play only heavily distrted sounds you could put your initial peak signal level say 3 dB higher (getting a little compressed) and still stay below the -12dB peak at the very end of you chain when you may want clean delays or reverbs.

[amsdenj]

Here's a blog post I created that contains guidelines and advice I've collected over the last couple of months: Creating POD HD500X Electric Guitar Patches.

[silverhead]

That's a really good resource, Jim. I'm going to spend some time this weekend following your guidelines and improving my patch creation skills.

 

Thanks for sharing.

[DarkEdge]

Yes, I want to thank everyone for pitching in here...I definitely learned a thing or three. :)