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Palico

Odd really bad noise only on open D string.

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https://soundcloud.com/dan-nobles-2/variaxissueOkay, I probably should have detected this earlier.  I swear this was not this way when I got the guitar. But I've already added a Backbox Trem stablizer and had some fret work done to correct 2 high frets, so sending the guitar back to Sweetwater is not really and option now.

 

https://soundcloud.com/dan-nobles-2/variaxissue

(sorry couldn't figure out how to embeed it on the forum)

It seems to be most present on the Semi model. On some like the Lester you can't hear it at all or very little.  The clip has some other strings around it. Play any fret on that string and it goes away.  Driving me crazy, it's the only thing on the guitar that bugs me.  
 
Bad Peizo? Something binding or rattling?  On mags there is nothing, sounds perfect. 

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https://soundcloud.com/dan-nobles-2/variaxissueOkay, I probably should have detected this earlier. I swear this was not this way when I got the guitar. But I've already added a Backbox Trem stablizer and had some fret work done to correct 2 high frets, so sending the guitar back to Sweetwater is not really and option now.

 

https://soundcloud.com/dan-nobles-2/variaxissue

(sorry couldn't figure out how to embeed it on the forum)

It seems to be most present on the Semi model. On some like the Lester you can't hear it at all or very little. The clip has some other strings around it. Play any fret on that string and it goes away. Driving me crazy, it's the only thing on the guitar that bugs me.

 

Bad Peizo? Something binding or rattling? On mags there is nothing, sounds perfect.

I didn't listen to the clip (out and about at the moment), but I'm gonna guess that it had something to do with the trem stabilizer. I have a Tremol-No installed on my 69, and just went thru a similar problem last night...I was getting an odd rattling sound (B on the A string). Definitely a physical vibration thing...traced it to the trem block. I'm not familiar with the unit you have, but if there's anything on it that could work itself loose, such as adjustable screws, make sure everything tightened up as it should be. That took care of my problem. Hope that helps.

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Worth a shot. I can unbolt this version so it removes everything and see.

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It's either an oversensitive piezo causing the lovely plink garbage we all know and love, or it's yes, the trem stablizer resonating when you play the D string. 

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Folllow up. Remove the backbox. Still there. So I removed the saddle for the high E string and unhooked, then removed the saddle from the D string. Put the High E saddle on the D string (wrong string height but just to test it).  Removed the problem.  So the problem is the Peizo after all.  I removed just the peizo and think I might have determied the root cause. That thing was tight as a ************ in there. I wonder if that was a contriubting factor. Any rate gotta call GraphTech and order new parts in the am. Playing it with the wrong saddle, the guitar is really nice. Hope to get this back together and re-setup soon.

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Folllow up. Remove the backbox. Still there. So I removed the saddle for the high E string and unhooked, then removed the saddle from the D string. Put the High E saddle on the D string (wrong string height but just to test it).  Removed the problem.  So the problem is the Peizo after all.  I removed just the peizo and think I might have determied the root cause. That thing was tight as a ************ in there. I wonder if that was a contriubting factor. Any rate gotta call GraphTech and order new parts in the am. Playing it with the wrong saddle, the guitar is really nice. Hope to get this back together and re-setup soon.

 

Yeah. It's really angering how their piezos are so inconsistent. I'm seriously thinking about complaining directly to them about this.

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I called GraphTech today and they are getting me out a new insert on this. Hopefully this one will get it cleaned up. Gotta say GraphTech support was outstanding, answered my questions and even got me some instruction on how to handle the clasps on the clips to install it, for the part that is there side anyway. 

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Which Variax model is being discussed here?  A JTV-89?

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Yea it is, but I had already installed Strap locks and the tremolo stablizer. No way to return it then. I think I have this figured out now, oversesite Peizo. Graph Tech is getting me a new one. So now just waiting for it to come in.

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Yea it is, but I had already installed Strap locks and the tremolo stablizer. No way to return it then. I think I have this figured out now, oversesite Peizo. Graph Tech is getting me a new one. So now just waiting for it to come in.

 

True. That's why I got rubber strap locks because it requires no mods. I find it strange that a ghraphtech piezo was bad. Graphtech is usually the better company than LR baggs and are supposed to be designed to prevent the piezo quack crap from happening.

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Follow up just for anybody in the future reading this thread.

 

Okay the new Piezo came in. It solved 95% of the problem. The noise when away on every model except for some reason the Semi model althought it's a lot less noticable on it.  So after getting it setup back up. I lowered the the string volume level on the Semi on the D string and G string and it seem tolleriable for now, that model also seems very very bright sounding. Rolling off the Tone knob seems to help it quite bit and the quack then goes away entirely.  Oddly enough it seems to have mostly solved the crosstalk problem as well with Alternate tunings.  There is still a touch of ghost notes in it, but I think I can use it. I have not attempted it over my DT25 yet at stage volume to really tell.

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Just today I sorted the problem shown on your sound clip...

Last week band practice did sound strange over my tube amp. Today, I was altering patches to try eradicating the problem and noticed that it only occurred when modelling was engaged. On rubbing the b string near the bridge and on the saddle, with my fingers, the horrible metal noise was exaggerated. I simply, slightly adjusted the 2 tiny saddle screws, making sure the saddle was level and like magic, the offending sound disappeared!

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Hello everyone. I really know nothing about piezos . Not even sure if that is the right spelling?

 

But I have a few questions some of you may help me with.

 

1.What exactly is it that makes each piezo unique?

 

2. Why do some work well, others not so well?

 

3. Can the tremolo cause a good piezo to start acting up?

 

That is enough questions for now. Thanks guys.

a 1st generation ipad will not work at all!!!

the app requires a newer version of the ipad operating system... generation 1 can only get version 5.... long out of date as we're on 8 now....

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Piezos are mechanical vibration sensors.  Problems often occur when there is something buzzing or vibrating that isn't the string it's supposed to be monitoring.  Regular magnetic pickups only sense the moving string and they are not going to pick up other vibrations as much - unless they affect the string vibration.

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Thanks Charlie. Think I will do a little digging on the internet to better understand these things.

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Piezo pickups are actually quite simple.  They often get a bad rap on a Variax when it's really a connection or mechanical issue that causes problems.  We use them as vibration / shock sensors in Hard Drives so I have had lots of experience with them.  If you look up the Piezo-electric effect you will find out how they work.

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Hello everyone. I really know nothing about piezos . Not even sure if that is the right spelling?

 

But I have a few questions some of you may help me with.

 

1.What exactly is it that makes each piezo unique?

 

2. Why do some work well, others not so well?

 

3. Can the tremolo cause a good piezo to start acting up?

 

That is enough questions for now. Thanks guys.

 

1. My understanding is they use a crystal so there is some various between each one off the line. Graph Tech etc... attempts to match them well but there are variances.

 

2. I think some are more sensative to others and pick up part little things that a mag pickup would not.  I find my JTV using the peizos all of them are a bit "quacky" sounding, often this a description on acoustic/electrics as well. I can EQ them out for the most part. On the original post I had one that was really bad. Replacing it seemed to mostly solve the issue. Personally my Variax 500 has much better sounding peizos in it but it doesn't play nearly as well as the JTV 89F does. Currently I use the Mags ways more and am still working on adjustments for the modeling. I don't mind saying the modeling side of the JTV has been a disappointment to me, but I still love the guitar itself and variax side is usable. 

 

3. Maybe. If there is mechanical problems, string buzz etc.. this is much more noticable on the peizeos than the mag pickups. But the trem itself is not causing damage to the piezos.

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Yes the sensitivity of piezo pickups does vary.  That is why we can change the string volumes in Workbench.  That is mostly just a gain issue.  Line6 could have elected to calibrate that but I don't think they do.  We get to do that ourselves. :-)

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If anyone has this problem with their guitar, I strongly suggest taking your pick, go behind the bridge, and pick the part of the string behind the saddle and hear if the sound is similar to the sound over the string making that strange noise.

 

I found out that the reason this happened on my guitar, is because picking the string normally, sends a vibration to that part of the string behind the saddle, which gets picked up by the piezo. Essentially those parts of the string hanging behind the saddle are high tuned notes.

 

The way I fixed this on my JTV-69, was wrapping tape around the strings near the ball ends and before the saddles. No modifications, just loosening the strings, putting tape on the string to make sure that part doesn't ring out, then tuning them back up, then bam, the noise is gone.

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If anyone has this problem with their guitar, I strongly suggest taking your pick, go behind the bridge, and pick the part of the string behind the saddle and hear if the sound is similar to the sound over the string making that strange noise.

 

I found out that the reason this happened on my guitar, is because picking the string normally, sends a vibration to that part of the string behind the saddle, which gets picked up by the piezo. Essentially those parts of the string hanging behind the saddle are high tuned notes.

 

The way I fixed this on my JTV-69, was wrapping tape around the strings near the ball ends and before the saddles. No modifications, just loosening the strings, putting tape on the string to make sure that part doesn't ring out, then tuning them back up, then bam, the noise is gone.

Thanks for the great tip clay man. What type of tape do you recommend?

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1. My understanding is they use a crystal so there is some various between each one off the line. Graph Tech etc... attempts to match them well but there are variances.

 

2. I think some are more sensative to others and pick up part little things that a mag pickup would not. I find my JTV using the peizos all of them are a bit "quacky" sounding, often this a description on acoustic/electrics as well. I can EQ them out for the most part. On the original post I had one that was really bad. Replacing it seemed to mostly solve the issue. Personally my Variax 500 has much better sounding peizos in it but it doesn't play nearly as well as the JTV 89F does. Currently I use the Mags ways more and am still working on adjustments for the modeling. I don't mind saying the modeling side of the JTV has been a disappointment to me, but I still love the guitar itself and variax side is usable.

 

3. Maybe. If there is mechanical problems, string buzz etc.. this is much more noticable on the peizeos than the mag pickups. But the trem itself is not causing damage to the piezos.

Thanks for the detailed reply Palico, my drop D acoustic sound is a little weak on the low D. Not terribly so, but enough that I notice it.

One of theses days I am gonna try and adjust it in workbench.

 

I have been happy with the modelling myself. It's been abit of a learning curve but I'm lovin' it.

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Piezo pickups are actually quite simple. They often get a bad rap on a Variax when it's really a connection or mechanical issue that causes problems. We use them as vibration / shock sensors in Hard Drives so I have had lots of experience with them. If you look up the Piezo-electric effect you will find out how they work.

Thanks Charlie for your replies. I will look into the piezo-electric effect.

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If anyone has this problem with their guitar, I strongly suggest taking your pick, go behind the bridge, and pick the part of the string behind the saddle and hear if the sound is similar to the sound over the string making that strange noise.

 

I found out that the reason this happened on my guitar, is because picking the string normally, sends a vibration to that part of the string behind the saddle, which gets picked up by the piezo. Essentially those parts of the string hanging behind the saddle are high tuned notes.

 

The way I fixed this on my JTV-69, was wrapping tape around the strings near the ball ends and before the saddles. No modifications, just loosening the strings, putting tape on the string to make sure that part doesn't ring out, then tuning them back up, then bam, the noise is gone.

 

I've often wondered if that is the "Plinky" type of sound I hear on the Variax side. I put a muffle on the headstock which made no difference but with the locking nut on the 89F, it makes sense you wouldn't gett anything from there. I can't think of way to muffle behind the peizo itself on Floyd thought. hmmm maybe on restring I could stick some paper or something to muffle it right behind the peizo just to see what affect it has. Might have to try that.

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I can't think of way to muffle behind the peizo itself on Floyd thought. hmmm maybe on restring I could stick some paper or something to muffle it right behind the peizo just to see what affect it has. Might have to try that.

 

I would have thought it would be less of a problem on the 89f...after clipping off the ball end, there's less string to vibrate back there. Who knows? These guitars are weird.

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I would not have thought that there was enough string not touching something on the JTV60 Bridge to vibrate but clay-man has found this.  I can't get any vibration back there on my bridge.  The string touches it right behind the piezo.  It can't hurt to put a thin piece of tape there though as long as it's behind  where the string contacts the piezo.

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Thanks for the great tip clay man. What type of tape do you recommend?

 

I used masking tape, and it worked. I noticed virtually every string has the problem, just some more than others, but if you play in certain ways, you can get it to ring out, so it's helps a lot to put tape around that part of the strings. (ball end to the place where it meets the saddle but NOT over the saddle, as that's where the string meets the piezo. If you put it there, you will dampen the tone of the string as well as kill sustain.)

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I would not have thought that there was enough string not touching something on the JTV60 Bridge to vibrate but clay-man has found this.  I can't get any vibration back there on my bridge.  The string touches it right behind the piezo.  It can't hurt to put a thin piece of tape there though as long as it's behind  where the string contacts the piezo.

 

Any overhang between the saddle/piezo and the ball end is a culprit and can cause high pitched ringing via synthetic resonance when playing that string.

 

As far as I can see, the 59 and 89 have overhang as well. 

 

There was a picture of someone putting a strip of felt between the bridge and that part of the string to mute the overhanging part.

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