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DT 25 No Volume if not in Low Output mode


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I recently had the mainboard replaced on my DT25 by a Line 6 certified repairman. The amp sounds great. I noticed the amp was in Low Volume mode. I put the amp on stanby and switched it to normal. No volume basically.

 

I spoke to the tech and he basically asked me to speak to Line 6. He is unclear whether this could be a issue with the replacement part. He also admitted he is trying to eliminate user error. ;)

 

I am hoping this is just a symptum of a failing power tube  .. Before I open a support ticket  .. I was wondering if anyone has experienced similiar symptums ..

 

 

Thanks in advance !!

 

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No but in low power mode you are not use the Tube section, you basicaly using the modelling. So I'm thinking this ain't good news. I would open a ticket proto.

 

That is NOT correct...>The tube power section is used in both modes....The primary difference is that the amp models change from PRE with LVM off to FULL with LVM on because the power amp does not color as much with LVM mode on...

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I recently had the mainboard replaced on my DT25 by a Line 6 certified repairman. The amp sounds great. I noticed the amp was in Low Volume mode. I put the amp on stanby and switched it to normal. No volume basically.

 

I spoke to the tech and he basically asked me to speak to Line 6. He is unclear whether this could be a issue with the replacement part. He also admitted he is trying to eliminate user error. ;)

 

I am hoping this is just a symptum of a failing power tube  .. Before I open a support ticket  .. I was wondering if anyone has experienced similiar symptums ..

 

 

Thanks in advance !!

 

Give the factory reset a shot...

 

DT Amplifier Factory Reset

 

As mentioned in the above sections, when customizing any settings via MIDI, your changes remain “saved†internally on the DT amplifier. This includes changes made to the preamp and power amp per Voicing switch value, Reverb and more. To return all settings back their factory default state, you’ll need to perform a “Reset†of the DT amp. To perform the Reset, start with the DT amplifier powered “Off,†then simultaneously hold the Voicing toggle switch DOWN and the Pentode/Triode toggle switch UP while powering the amp “On.†Continue to hold these toggle switches in this position until you see the Voicing “I†indicator light up (this takes about 15 seconds). The DT factory default settings are then fully restored and your DT amp is ready to play.

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That is NOT correct...>The tube power section is used in both modes....The primary difference is that the amp models change from PRE with LVM off to FULL with LVM on because the power amp does not color as much with LVM mode on...

 

I could see the tubes being used some, but the just a change from the PRE to FULL alone is not correct either, if use the HD500 to set to the FULL it doesn't lower the volume.  So while the tubes may be used *some* in lower power mode you are not using them very much hence the need for the FULL model.

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I could see the tubes being used some, but the just a change from the PRE to FULL alone is not correct either, if use the HD500 to set to the FULL it doesn't lower the volume.  So while the tubes may be used *some* in lower power mode you are not using them very much hence the need for the FULL model.

 

I never said that was the only difference....just that it's the primary difference....THe OP never mentioned a 500, so I figured his trouble is with the amp itself and scoped my response in regards to the amplifier itself..

 

tubes being used some?....That's a better way to put it as you initially said the tubes were NOT used, which is what was the reason for my post ...Believe it or not, there are some folks that think the DT changes into a solid-state power amp in LVM mode....

 

The speakers are 100% powered by the power tubes in either mode....In LVM the tubes are running cold and the FULL model helps out with that by restoring some power section vibe...The FULL model also helps the direct out since the direct switches to 100% modeled instead of the hybrid output that comes from the output transformer when LVM is off...

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That's a better way to put it as you initially said the tubes were NOT used, which is what was the reason for my post ...Believe it or not, there are some folks that think the DT changes into a solid-state power amp in LVM mode....

 

 

They way the manual read would support that Theory, but since I  could see that Line 6 would not want to build a solid state side and tube side, I will assume you are correct, it seems resonable.   Either way, yes on the OP some for sure really wrong. 

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The speakers are 100% powered by the power tubes in either mode....In LVM the tubes are running cold and the FULL model helps out with that by restoring some power section vibe...The FULL model also helps the direct out since the direct switches to 100% modeled instead of the hybrid output that comes from the output transformer when LVM is off...

 

Since the power tubes run colder in LVM I would say that this mode should be easier on the power tubes thus making them last longer?

 

Am curious is all. I use the LVM on my DT50HD and it sounds great for practicing at home and monitoring and recording digitally with the Direct Out.

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Since the power tubes run colder in LVM would say that this mode should be easier on the power tubes thus making them last longer?

 

Am curious is all. I use the LVM on my DT50HD and it sounds great for practicing at home and monitoring and recording digitally with the Direct Out.

 

That actually might be true....come to think of it, I have never measured the plate voltage in LVM mode....duh....That would be a pretty easy way tp find out if the plates  are getting starved in LVM....If they are, then I tend to think the tubes would last a bit longer....

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That actually might be true....come to think of it, I have never measured the plate voltage in LVM mode....duh....That would be a pretty easy way tp find out if the plates  are getting starved in LVM....If they are, then I tend to think the tubes would last a bit longer....

 

Thanks for your input on this. It's gotta make one wonder.

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Ok, so it occured to me last night that I had not tried tried switching back to LVM to see if the amp still worked. I just assumed it was only having a issue, when not in LVM mode, since it was fine until went to full power.

 

Flipped the switch back to LVM and powered on the amp. No sound. Then I switched to channel A. It works. I was on channel B when I switched it from LVM and now Channel B is silent. It is working in LVM on A, and I am reluctant to try normal mode on the A side, in case I loose that as well. (currently using the amp as 1/2 a stereo setup and would like to keep doing that) The mainboard replacement was at my expense (out of warranty) This amp is making me sad again. I love the tone, the looks the freatures   ... even the Yamaha certified tech repair$ are not able to make this amp remotely reliable. Failed replacement part ? another failed component ? I had the tranformer replaced in my DT50 at my expense, (seems that repair is now covered for many) now a mainboard in my DT25, I am not here to bash Line 6 ... but to continue as a loyal customer is starting to feel a little foolish. I will take the DT25 back to the tech and hope for the best. If I need to reach into my pocket again for anything other than tubes on this amp, it goes up for sale and I will never look back.   Who could blame me ?

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Who could blame me ?

 

Don't think anyone could blame you on that one. Too many good amps out there to sink tones on money into a unrelaiable one. So far other than bad tube my DT25 has been great but if it was start doing stuff like that, I would be looking to replace it pronto.

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Did you Try the Factory Reset I posted above....The Master Volume is NOT an analog control...I would urge you to Try the Factory Reset...IF your firmware is actually an older version that was before the Factory Reset was a feature, you simply update the firmware to reset...

 

Really stinks you have all those issues....

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thank you. I have not tried the reset.  I will give that a shot tonight. Sadly, the repairman I had thought I found, he and I could not get on the same page. I felt like I paid $280 for this last repair and getting his hands on the amp should have been job 1. Nope. First he wanted me to talk to Line 6. I did, Will was very cool, offered to cover the repair (if the part was bad I assume) if I shipped it. I asked if he would authourize a local repair, he did. I told my guy this, he wanted my address, my phone number, email address etc ... before he would even tell me if this weekend was good to drop the amp off ... I was confused, so I called him, he was indignant. I caved in and asked if he had a pen to write it down, he said nope, just text me some more. Not really into customer service, I guess he can pick and chose his clients and don't want or need anymore of my cash .. The continuing saga of when it works, my favourite amp ..  Upon further testing, both channels are equal and  nearly silent, depending on the  topology chosen. Topology IV for example has a tiny amount of volume, Topology 1, basically silent. This to me, feels like power tubes. The plan now is to get someone local to test the tubes and if they are good, I will need to find a box and ship it to Line 6.

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Thank you. I have not tried the reset.  I will give that a shot tonight. Sadly, the repairman I had thought I found, he and I could not get on the same page. I felt like I paid $280 for this last repair and getting his hands on the amp should have been job 1. Nope. First he wanted me to talk to Line 6. I did, Will was very cool, offered to cover the repair (if the part was bad I assume) if I shipped it. I asked if he would authourize a local repair, he did. I told my guy this, he wanted my address, my phone number, email address etc ... before he would even tell me if this weekend was good to drop the amp off ... I was confused, so I called him, he was indignant. I caved in and asked if he had a pen to write it down, he said nope, just text me some more. Not really into customer service, I guess he can pick and chose his clients and don't want or need anymore of my cash .. The continuing saga of when it works, my favourite amp ..  Upon further testing, both channels are equal and  nearly silent, depending on the  topology chosen. Topology IV for example has a tiny amount of volume, Topology 1, basically silent. This to me, feels like power tubes. The plan now is to get someone local to test the tubes and if they are good, I will need to find a box and ship it to Line 6.

 

About your amp tech....sounds sad to me. I'll tell you what Line 6 said to me when I first started having trouble with my new amp. The following is pretty close to what they said to me. "There isn't anyone who can fix it, just send it back to us.", I tend to believe them.

 

I hope your reset works. If that doesn't maybe you should try to reinstall the firmware. Good luck and I hope you get it working right.

 

I think if I ever have issues with this amp I'm going to have to ship it Line 6 in Calabasis, CA to get it fixed.

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Seems I declared victory too early. The amp worked fine, twice. Now it is back to the same extreme low volume. I tried another reset, no joy. Since the only authourized center within a hour is the guy I had a falling out with, kind of stuck again looking for a box and $80 for shipping.

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So ... I am pretty much laughing at myself at this point .. but here is where I am with my DT25 at at the moment.

 

Channel A Topology 1 and 3 are dead. 2 and 4 seem fine.

Channel B  All Topologies seem fine.

 

So .. I could set  channel A to either Topology 2 or 4 and then I still have a 2 channel amp.

 

This is in Low Power Mode. Not sure I want try full power mode again, since last time everything was dead until the reset.

 

No fault of Line 6 that me and the only authourized tech within 1 hour don't see eye to eye. I am sure if I send it to Line 6, they will fix it right. The issue is what do I do next time ? Ship it again ? Without having a resource locally, the long term seems sketchy. Basically because I have not had great luck so far. Even after paying $280 for a new systemboard to someone that really didn't seem very interested in making this right, unless the customer did everything he asked, including giving out his home address.

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Based on your description and what I've learned from my own debug of my DT50, it sounds like one of the relays on the analog board may not be working.  I don't believe there are different signal paths on the analog board for either the 2 channels or the topologies, so if one works and another doesn't, to me it sounds like a relay, which is used to "personalize" the signal path.

 

There should be 2 separate boards in the amp - one digital, one analog.  Which was replaced in your amp?

 

Here's one thought - you should be able to find out if the analog board is the problem by running a signal into the effects return.  The problem still exhibits, the analog board is the culprit.  You can order a new board through fullcompass.com and have a local shop install it for you.  Since it is out of warranty, no need to go with the authorized repair dude if he isn't pleasant to work with.  The analog board is very easy to replace, just 6 screws and about 14 cable connections (at least on my DT50).  If you have any electronics repair under your belt, you could do it yourself and save even more.  Then again, if Line 6 offered to replace parts at their cost, you might be better just taking the hit on shipping it out there.

 

I've had quite a history with my DT50 here, so I can relate to your pain.  One thing also to try is to pound your fist on the top of the cabinet (no joke!).  If there is a loose connection somewhere inside, you'll hear it.  I had either a bad solder joint or a tube not making solid contact with the socket at one point during my journey, and I could pound on the chassis and hear very loud pops and crackles.  This is helpful for eliminating root causes of the problem.  After resoldering the analog board and retentioning my tube sockets, that problem is gone.

 

Heck, I wish I could help more, if you were in the Austin, TX area I'd offer to take a peek at it.

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  • 7 years later...
On 5/5/2015 at 9:51 PM, RPascarella said:

Based on your description and what I've learned from my own debug of my DT50, it sounds like one of the relays on the analog board may not be working.  I don't believe there are different signal paths on the analog board for either the 2 channels or the topologies, so if one works and another doesn't, to me it sounds like a relay, which is used to "personalize" the signal path.

 

There should be 2 separate boards in the amp - one digital, one analog.  Which was replaced in your amp?

 

Here's one thought - you should be able to find out if the analog board is the problem by running a signal into the effects return.  The problem still exhibits, the analog board is the culprit.  You can order a new board through fullcompass.com and have a local shop install it for you.  Since it is out of warranty, no need to go with the authorized repair dude if he isn't pleasant to work with.  The analog board is very easy to replace, just 6 screws and about 14 cable connections (at least on my DT50).  If you have any electronics repair under your belt, you could do it yourself and save even more.  Then again, if Line 6 offered to replace parts at their cost, you might be better just taking the hit on shipping it out there.

 

I've had quite a history with my DT50 here, so I can relate to your pain.  One thing also to try is to pound your fist on the top of the cabinet (no joke!).  If there is a loose connection somewhere inside, you'll hear it.  I had either a bad solder joint or a tube not making solid contact with the socket at one point during my journey, and I could pound on the chassis and hear very loud pops and crackles.  This is helpful for eliminating root causes of the problem.  After resoldering the analog board and retentioning my tube sockets, that problem is gone.

 

Heck, I wish I could help more, if you were in the Austin, TX area I'd offer to take a peek at it.

 

I know this is an older thread but I just came across it, as I'm having a similar issue. The short version is that I'm having a problem where the amp gets QUIETER when I switch to Low Volume mode, but it seems to be preamp-model specific. I'm on firmware version 2.0 so I've got 30 preamps to choose from rather than just the Topology I-IV that (I think) was available at the time this thread was started. That said if (for example) I'm using the Treadplate amp and switch Low Volume off, the amp gets louder just as you'd expect. But if I'm using (for example) the Tween B-Man Normal, it gets quieter when I do the same. I should mention that I have two DT25s (a head and a 1x12 combo) and they BOTH do it. A bit more background:

I'm using the DT with a Helix - the Helix is connected via 4CM so for effects only (no amp modelling), but also for MIDI switching on the DT (different preamp models for different patches/songs, etc). Whenever I'm playing at home I always run the amp in Low Volume mode, and obviously at home is where I'm creating my presets, level-balancing snapshots, etc, etc. On three separate occasions my band was playing a gig where when I was switching between presets/snapshots on the Helix the balance between them was noticeably off from how I had set it at home. But when I checked again at home after the gig it seemed fine. What I eventually figured out was the only difference between the gig and home was that I switched out of Low Volume mode at the gigs. So today I called up one of the problematic presets (we just had a gig last night), and the balance between snapshots seemed fine (the problem during the gig was that one snapshot was WAY lower than it should have been). I switched Low Volume mode OFF, and the problem snapshot got quieter instead of louder. So I tried one of the other presets - same thing.

As I mentioned earlier, it doesn't seem like a problem with the amp because it doesn't do this across all the preamp models (it seems to mainly be the low-gain-type amps). At this point I've pretty much decided I'm just going to run them in Low Volume mode 100% of the time (most of the amps/tones sound better in LVM with the Master around 2-3 o'clock anyway).

 

Thoughts?

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