2.62 Firmware Updated Both 500X & 500

[davidb7170]

I have both the 500 and the 500X -- got the 500X because I wanted a backup.

 

I had the XTLive -- bought it in 2005 or 2006 when I got my Variax 300 and had a midi pedal to my FX shoot craps. In 2009, the XTL died at a gig and I had to make due without. The wall wart power input jack on the XTL failed, and left me dead in the water. I went to GC and picked up the new (at the time) X3Live -- was able to import the XTL patches into the X3L.

 

When I got my JTV-59 in 2011 I wanted the better JTV control features of the HD500, so it was not long before I got the 500. Well, with the XTL failure experience in the back of my head, I saw my way clear to buy the 500X when that had just come out, so I could use one as a backup. I also got a JTV-69S in 2012 as a backup to my 59.... I'm an engineer, and tend to think in terms of contingencies... Yeah, I know, but just the way I am...

 

I was able to put my set lists from the 500 into the 500X, and was off. Over time, went through some updates, and my patches evolved, like everybody who tweaks, I decided to put my current set lists into my backup 500 to keep them both alike, but noticed the 2 units sounded different with the same patches. I have a thread on here describing the differences:

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/7649-500-500x-side-by-side-comparison/?do=findComment&comment=53117

 

Anyway -- I was also looking forward to this latest round of FW and software updates this last week. I did the 2.61 500X FW updates then bought and installed the full model pack set. Found the Global EQ was not doing anything. so when they fixed that with 2.62, it was ready for the HD 500 as well. Got the 500X squared away Tursday, then did the 500 on Friday night, and installed the model packs on that as well -- settled an uncertainty we've been reading about concerning multiple installs -- everybody said we should be able to, and I was able to get it on both. The License manager is a bit fussy -- had de-authorize some stuff to get 'er done. what up with that -- heaven help you if you buy more than 3 things that need to be authorized... jeesh... I digress...

 

I just want to report that with the 2.62 FW updates, the 500 and the 500X now DO sound EXACTLY alike. Before the update, the 500 sounded quite a bit more "treble-y" than the 500X with the same patches. After the update - completely the same.

 

Also with all the updates, I saw they had updates for the JTV's -- updated HD Workbench for the new Standard Variax, but also a FW update for the JTV -- FW 2.21. It's the first one I've seen with absolutely not firmware realease notes. I asked if anybody knew what it was about on the JTV section of the Forum -- nobody seems to -- never heard from Digital Igloo or any other L6 Staffers.

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/12901-jtv-fw-221-whats-new-in-it/?view=findpost&p=90279

 

Well, I gritted my teeth and updated both the 59 & 69S. I haven't found any bad issues with it, but really can't tell any positive changes, either. Anybody here heard what it was about?

 

Wanted to thank the L6 folks for a fairly smooth update. the 2.60 to 2.61 to 2.62 fixes were pretty timely. My HD500X & JTV update installs went very smoothly. I had 2 USB communication errors when installing the 2.62 update to the 500. I disconnected any other connections to the 500 and made sure the USB cable was firmly in place, and it worked.

 

Thanks,

Dave

[Digital_Igloo]

The Variax patches were created on an HD500x. A handful (6 or 7 maybe?) of presets were too big to fit in HD500's slower DSP, so we stripped them down a bit. That's all.

[pianoguyy]

I stuck the variax setlist from the 500x onto my 500 and only 1A gave me a problem. 

 

Of course, I don't use a variax, so I don't know if that makes a difference or not. 

I also have not yet installed the new firmware, again, if that makes a difference. 

 

 

 

 

=======================================

Just to note: 

I inserted the setlist while connected to the pod. 

Normally, I would run individual patches through the converter, or edit them in offline mode to find a way to make it fit. 

This was before it was released for the 500. I was just curious as to what was in there. 

[philrynhart]

I updated my HD500 firmware and flash, however now i cannot get the HD500 edit to open just crashes everytime I'm running 10.5.8 osx, tried everything i can think of including new drivers and full uninstall and re-install and eventually by using Monkey i managed to get the drivers recognised and the usb audio driver installed, but still no HD500 edit. Variax HD is working great when connected thro the HD500. So not all bad at least i can record via USB again, i do miss the HD500 edit. I have opened a ticket but i will be on a short tour for 10 days so will have to wait to fix this issue, hopefully it can resolve.

[davidb7170]

Thanks DI, but I was asking about the JTV firmware update version 2.21, not the HD500(X) new Variax Set List. That JTV FW update has no issues it updates or fixes on the download page, like there usually is. Just curious. Any info?

 

philryhart -- I did not have the HD 500 Edit show problems on my Win 8.1 machine when hooked to the HD 500. It could be conflict with your OSX machine or software issues with that platform. Hope they come through for you and get it sorted out.

 

Thanks,

Dave

[TheRealZap]

that's a crusty old OSX you have there... are you sure you have an intel processor? (you probably do or you wouldn't have gotten this far....)

i'm not sure if that version of leopard is supported...

 

I updated my HD500 firmware and flash, however now i cannot get the HD500 edit to open just crashes everytime I'm running 10.5.8 osx, tried everything i can think of including new drivers and full uninstall and re-install and eventually by using Monkey i managed to get the drivers recognised and the usb audio driver installed, but still no HD500 edit. Variax HD is working great when connected thro the HD500. So not all bad at least i can record via USB again, i do miss the HD500 edit. I have opened a ticket but i will be on a short tour for 10 days so will have to wait to fix this issue, hopefully it can resolve.

[katiekerry]

I updated my HD500 firmware and flash, however now i cannot get the HD500 edit to open just crashes everytime I'm running 10.5.8 osx, tried everything i can think of including new drivers and full uninstall and re-install and eventually by using Monkey i managed to get the drivers recognised and the usb audio driver installed, but still no HD500 edit. Variax HD is working great when connected thro the HD500. So not all bad at least i can record via USB again, i do miss the HD500 edit. I have opened a ticket but i will be on a short tour for 10 days so will have to wait to fix this issue, hopefully it can resolve.

I actually had issues where the new HDedit tanked my laptop.  Had to reinstall the os x yosemite..  But the second time around I used line 6 monkey to update it instead of Download area..  I was able to get it all updated.. I did the flash and firmware first this time around..  Unfortunatley though it caused me to have to install the current version of yosemite 10.3 which I did not want but I guess I will have to get used to it..  I wish I could go back to mavericks or even older I hate yosemite...  anyways enough rambling

[edstar1960]

I installed v2.21 on my JTV59 today (updated from v2.1)  - before I did, I made sure I backed up everything on the JTV and I made a note of the Global String levels which I had altered to counteract what I found to be quite a severe string volume balance mismatch - I had also altered some individual models adjusting string volumes and also boosting patch output on the T-Mods and Strats and acoustics.  I reset the GLOBAL string levels to zero and I chose to overwrite all the models the install.  It all went perfectly.  When I demo'd the newly reflashed models at v2.21 I no longer noticed any severe string volume balance mismatch - it all sounded great straight off the bat. I have not given it a thorough test yet - but just playing through some patches on my HD500 with headphones the T-mods, the strats all sounded like the string volumes were nicely balanced unlike when I had installed v2.1.   So it may just be a coincidence that the reflash to v2.21 resolved that issue for me or........stranger things have happened!    :)

 

I also updated my HD500 to v2.62 and it went perfectly.  I backed everything up first and then overwrote all the patches with the new fw.  I did the Global reset and the pedal re-calibration and so far all sounds great!  I haven't tested the Global EQ yet but I could see it switched on by default in the system setup page 11.

 

Thanks LIne 6 for a trouble free FW upgrade for both my JTV and my HD500.     :)

[ColonelForbin]

Ok, try this, just because! Since you have both an HD500 and an HD500x, and a JTV..

 

Connect the VDI cable from the JTV to one HD unit, and connect the 1/4" plug from the JTV to the other HD500.

 

Depending on your amplifier options, my thinking here was something like this:

 

On the JTV, set the model that you want to go to the HD500 set in 'studio direct' mode. Connect it direct to PA, or to a full range speaker. That POD gets the 1/4" cable - I am thinking for ease of stage use, make it a wireless, but for test purposes, any 1/4" will do. For example, set the JTV to your favorite acoustic models, and set the studio direct accordingly - doesn't have to be acoustic, but the concept being the acoustic patches work best in full range mode.

 

Then on the other HD500 - the one getting the VDI, connect it to an amplifier - I happen to use a DT25, but anything that sounds good; that HD500 gets set to 'combo poweramp'.

 

Make the HD500 getting the VDI process the 'variax mags'; set it up however you want - make sure there is a volume pedal programmed in all HD500 patches

Make the HD500 getting the 1/4" process the 'variax models', set it up with the notion that it's specific to going full range.

 

I was thinking this would be an interesting way to send the variax acoustic models direct to the PA, the mags to an amp or amps; and you can run them A / B / A+B, using the volume pedals to control the level balance.

 

You can also go with duplicate patches - say, same basic configuration on both, but since one is going full range and one to an amp, you can achieve a tonally massive sound..

 

Just a thought; you've got the extra HD unit, that makes it possible - can't do it with just one, need one in studio direct and the other in amp mode (combo poweramp, combo stack, etc.)

 

In terms of use with a DT, would actually be a really cool side by side 'recording direct' comparison. Send the two signals, same model or mags to both HD500 units. Set up two identical patches on both units; route one with the L6link to a DT amp (or multiple DT amps), and send the other 'studio direct' to a mixer / recording.

 

Get them both dialed in, and play a bunch, record it all, and see how much difference there really is between the preamp only+ DT version of an amp model, vs the 'studio direct' full amp model.

 

All things being equal, I've always felt a tonal thing happening with the DT's that I preferred, but I have never done a true recording comparison, and listened to both signals as the audience would hear. Because lately, at home I have been really liking the studio direct stuff; but anytime I jam with my band, when the drums and bass and everything is loud, I prefer the DT amps - for playability purposes. But the actual tones as heard via the XLR out on the DT to the main mix? It sounds fine, but I haven't been too critical in comparing it with the studio/direct version.

[philrynhart]

Thanks for your input guy's, yes it's an old OS but solid as a rock with Logic Pro 9, i have installed the HD500 edit on my iMac running 10.6.8 and it works great so at least i can edit patches on another computer as a work around. I found on my Quad Core (main Mac) that i had an old Line 6 account with a different user name so i signed in with my current account and registered my new JTV69 along with my HD500, good news is i mamaged to get the drivers all working it's just the HD500 edit that is the problem, the other software is all good. I'll look at this further when i get back from my tour (10days) starting tomorrow.

 

Anyone thing that having an old account could have casused the problem? the flash and firmware loaded a treat no problems.

if the problem was caused by my old account anyone know how to fix it? I might just be grasping at straws?

 

thanks again folks.

[edstar1960]

.......   Quote from OP's original entry .....

 

I just want to report that with the 2.62 FW updates, the 500 and the 500X now DO sound EXACTLY alike. Before the update, the 500 sounded quite a bit more "treble-y" than the 500X with the same patches. After the update - completely the same.

 

......

 

Hi Dave, I updated my HD500 to v2.62 at the weekend and I can also report that it now sounds far less treble-y and harsh than before - all my patches have more bottom end and warmth in then before - so I am going to have to tweak them to reduce the bass and maybe increase the treble because before I was always fighting the treble and harshness which I thought was down to using digital guitar model into digital amp model into solid state powered speaker all via digital links (VDI and L6 link).    No idea why this is the case, especially as Digital Igloo said they had worked extremely hard to ensure everyones patches would sound the same before and after the upgrade with the newly optimised code.  This is not a complaint - just an observation - and I prefer the warmer richer sound of my HD500 with v2.62.  Now I just need to put some time aside to re-tweak my patches to taste.

 

:)   Some unexpected goodness from the free upgrade!    :)

[edstar1960]

are you completely sure of what you stated above here?

 

just in case, do you have any demo clips comparing the before and after fw change using the same patch?

 

Yes I am sure.  Unfortunately I do not have any before and after clips using exactly the same un-altered patch.  Remember I also updated my JTV from 2.1 to v2.21 and I stuck with the default model settings and reset my global string levels to zero but before I had made adjustments for both Global and individual model string levels,  That will also have some effect on the end sound.

 

I have been playing with my HD500 a lot over and tailoring some patches over last few days immediately before the upgrade so I was very accustomed to their sound - so when I reloaded them after moving to v2.62, I can tell they are different in regards having more bottom end and warmth - so much so that I will have to re-tweak my patches again to reduce the bottom end and maybe boost the top end a little.

[edstar1960]

thanks for your interesting reply...

 

when I'll find the time I'll try do the audio comparison by myself, I still have all my old patches and all the recordings made with them before updating the fw..

 

Unfortunately I broke the golden rule of only changing one thing at a time!  If only I had left the JTV upgrade till later, I would have had a much more accurate A/B situation and would be able to say that the change is 100% due to the v2.62 fw.

With JTV v2.1 I had adjusted string volumes such that the lower strings were quieter but with v2.21, I reset strong global values to zero and left models as per factory preset values. So that would also increase bottom end response of the models but I don't think to the degree that I have noticed the increase with the HD500 patches under v2.62.

The other thing to note is that the GLOBAL EQ defaults to ON and I did not try switching it to OFF because I assumed it was set to FLAT so should not be making a difference. So I also need to try switching it off just in case it is adding the extra bottom end and warmth instead of being transparent at default levels.

[rwhite137]

I have a 500 and after updating to 2.62 I also noticed that my presets sounded warmer. I did leave the global eq on at its default settings. I normally have my inputs settings to guitar-1 and variax-2 (even though I don't have a variax). Then I tried setting input 2 to same and the presets sounded even fuller, more alive, not harsh like they did before the update. Not saying everyone will get these results, but this was my observation.Just to note, I do not use any amp modeling in my presets, just effects pedals going to my tube amp by 4CM using combo front input setting. All of this was just at bedroom volume for now. I will definitely hear the final results when I go to rehearsal Wednesday night. Here's hoping that all of this converts to stage level in a similar way. I know there is a vast difference in bedroom vs stage volume tones, but after the upgrade, my bedroom volume tones defintely warmed up and was a pleasant surprise that I did not expect out of this upgrade.

[jandrio]

...when I'll find the time I'll try do the audio comparison by myself, I still have all my old patches and all the recordings made with them before updating the fw..

 

hmm,

it seems strange that the HD500 sound is "differentiated" thru the 2.62 fw update :unsure:

 

looking 4ward 2 this audio comparison, Nico.

[rwhite137]

Nico, just curious, did you have global eq on or off during the comparison?

[pianoguyy]

Nico, just curious, did you have global eq on or off during the comparison?

Since the Master EQ is not located within a patch: 

You should always have it tuned off. 

 

Whether you are creating, demonstrating, or sharing patches, do not use global eq. 

 

Hey, if you are going to make a patch and keep it to yourself and never leave your bedroom, do what you want with the MEQ. 

But how embarrassing would it be for you, to make this beautiful patch --- send it off to your friends across the globe, only to have them say "dude, are you a Meghan Trainor fan?" Because its all about the bass with no treble. 

Oops, you had your MEQ turned on. 

[davidb7170]

Before I installed 2.62 FW in the 500 (I had already done the 500X), I took a listen of the 500 as it stood, and it was definitely more treble-y than the 500X. The 500X before and after the 2.62 update did not change sonically that I could tell. After the 2.62 FW update on the 500, it was sonically identical to the 500X with the same set lists, same patches, same power amp, same volume level, same FRFR speaker, same cables, same JTV, same VDI cable, Studio Direct mode ON in both units. The only difference was the FW version before, then after. No Global EQ available before, Global EQ OFF after the update to make sure that wasn't coloring the sound.

 

I usually do the Global Reset and recalibrate the pedal when I do FW updates to these units, but could not attest to that being the case with prior FW version in the 500 (it's been a while since the prior update), so don't know if that would be a consideration in the scheme of things... I would be surprised if I didn't, as it's my SOP. When I do patch tweaking, I do it at volume levels definitely above bedroom volumes to get past the Fletcher-Munson effect. Guys, I've been around the block with this, been through the pit-falls of setting up patches at lower volumes not working out at gig levels....

 

Main thing is, it took care of an issue that I couldn't get around before -- now it's all good. I would not hesitate using either the 500X or the 500 interchangeably now,

 

Dave

[edstar1960]

I compared some of my old recordings with the sound I get now with the updated fw 2.62 using the same old patches, and I must say that I don't hear any appreciable difference, especially if I match the signal levels of the recordings with the live sound, listening to both sources with my headphones connected to the POD..

 

different volume levels comparing two supposed identical timbres can easily give the false impression that there are some little differences in tone

 

That's interesting - thanks for checking nico.

 

I am not surprised that you didn't hear any appreciable difference because the fw update was designed to be transparent and not affect existing patches. However, over the years there have been interesting things that crop up that only affect a subset of users and often they never get a definitive answer. Also users report that re-flashing sometimes results in fixing issues - again another mystery.  So this could just be one of those little mysteries - for some users with a certain batch of HD500's - for some unknown reason the v2.62 fw update apparently reduces the treble/harshness and increases the warmth and bottom end.  For Dave, myself and rwhite - we have all noticed this difference - but obviously just 3 users out of how many thousands doesn't really mean anything statistically - so I guess 99.99% of users won't notice any difference.

 

Dave's evidence is very good, as he had two units which he could A/B with identical set ups - so clearly it was not his ears deceiving him - before the update his HD500 was always more trebley than his HD500X with the same patch - after the update they sound identical.  

 

My evidence is not so good because I also updated my JTV to v2.21 and changed it's global string settings so I had a clean factory install - so this affected the guitar models being used which may well have introduced more bottom end on the models used with the patches - which in turn may well have exacerbated any extra bottom end resulting from the HD500 v2.62 upgrade, or maybe has tricked me into thinking the HD500 update has introduced more bottom end.  However, I do have a V700 which was not updated - so today I will try that out and see if the patches still sound different.

 

Just for information, the patches that I had been re-tweaking  prior to the upgrade, were ones that I was deliberately setting ER to 0 and also RESONANCE to 0.  Before I had used the default settings which were usually 12 and 50.  Removing RESONANCE does two things, it reduces volume and it removes the low end peak around 100hz - reducing bottom end and warmth.   Maybe having RESONANCE at zero highlights the difference more - by that I mean, if you already have an enhanced bass tone, then if the fw adds more bass to it then it will be harder to spot, but if the patch does not have enhanced bass then if the fw introduces more bass then perhaps it will stand out more.   Certainly, if I had not been continuing using the same few patches for days before, then I may not have noticed a difference. I was very familiar with how they sounded before - so I could tell they were different after the upgrade.

 

It would be interesting to hear from any other HD500 users who have updated that also think they have a warmer/richer sound after the v2.62 update - just to get a feel for how widespread or unique this side affect is.

 

:)

[rwhite137]

Sorry guys, mystery solved for me. I had the global eq on at the time. With global eq off, I can't really tell a difference in my original patch. I kind of hurried through testing sounds and didn't pay attention to details. Still, I am very pleased with having the global eq. It helps not taking up an effects block or two for eq' inside the patch. I will use it to tweak my sound. I am fortunate to only play one venue so environments don't change. I have fought the trebly harshness for quite a while now and the global eq really helps. Just couldn't seem to completely get it out adjusting just the effects. I realize this situation doesn't fit everyone's needs, but it works well for me. Piano guy, I agree if you are going to share patches, don't create them with global eq on. You made a good point. I probably wouldn't have thought of that. Thanks for sharing.

[edstar1960]

Sorry guys, mystery solved for me. I had the global eq on at the time. With global eq off, I can't really tell a difference in my original patch. I kind of hurried through testing sounds and didn't pay attention to details. Still, I am very pleased with having the global eq. It helps not taking up an effects block or two for eq' inside the patch. I will use it to tweak my sound. I am fortunate to only play one venue so environments don't change. I have fought the trebly harshness for quite a while now and the global eq really helps. Just couldn't seem to completely get it out adjusting just the effects. I realize this situation doesn't fit everyone's needs, but it works well for me. Piano guy, I agree if you are going to share patches, don't create them with global eq on. You made a good point. I probably wouldn't have thought of that. Thanks for sharing.

 

Just to clarify - rwhite137 - you are saying that if you have GLOBAL EQ on with the standard default values as supplied it adds the warmth and reduces the treble/harshness?  Please can you clarify what outputs on the HD500 you are using and what you are connecting to? Thanks.

 

hurgahnico could try his test again but this time with GLBAL EQ on with defaults and see if he then hears the same difference.

 

I will also try it again with GLOBAL EQ off to see if the treble/harshness returns.

 

I thought GLOBAL EQ with the default values should be flat and transparent to overall tone - it will be interesting to confirm whether or not it does add or detract any tonal characteristics.

[edstar1960]

I just tried now both live and using the looper in pre position..

 

Global Eq (with default neutral settings) doesn't make any sound difference if turned on or off

 Thanks Nico.

 

I tried it too and it didn't make any difference to my tones either. So Global EQ appears to be neutral in effect -- which is what I would expect.

 

I wonder if rwhite used something other than default settings?

[pfsmith0]

Sounds like I need to update my HD500 and take it back into the lab to measure Global EQ to see exactly what it's doing. This weekend would be a good time for that.

[rwhite137]

I wonder if rwhite used something other than default settings

 

 

I think I had the eq at default settings, but at this point I really can't say for sure. I barely remember what I did an hour ago.Too many late night music sessions have burnt up too many brain cells. :rolleyes: I do know that global eq is something that will be useful to me in my situation. I am probably in the minority here anyway in that I only use my 500 for effects, no amp modeling.Sorry if I muddled the conversation, but I will leave it to several here on this forum that have a lot more tone evaluation expertise and experience than I do to provide a more definite answer. There is a lot of good tone analysis that goes on here. I have been a forum watcher for a couple of years now and I am trying to put my toe in the water on joining in on the different topics.

[panaman]

globalization sucks.

what a laughable and useless freebie, when everyone agrees it should be disabled always.

i want my harshness back, the les paul doesnt need any more warmth.

i want this thing out of my firmware.

cant roll back either now that i got the model packs.

they should have made the models free and made those pay who really wanted the eq, and see how that might have turned out.

eq global fiasco. bummer.

[TheRealZap]

as long as you dont want the model packs you're free to roll back......

 

seeing as you're a minority of one... no one will stop you!

[panaman]

not an option, already got the model packs.

i actually think my pod sounded best with the original firmware it came with, 1.4 i think.

many posts saying they are not going to use the eq and even it shouldnt be used makes me feel not so minority.

a/b-ing by turning the eq on and off does not say anything about the general sonic impact of the new firmware.

[TheRealZap]

You still have a choice. And a refund option for the first 30 days. Your subjective objection will not warrant any changes from line6. Do what's going to work best for you. It really is that simple.

[pianoguyy]

It is actually the same person saying not to use it many times over and over. ME. That is what I say. Not many people, just me.  

And Digital Igloo, once, agreed with my statement --- if you intend on sharing your patches, they need to be made without the new Eq. 

 

But remember, I am not telling others not to ever use it. 

I am saying that I won't use it because I have a sound man to adjust for 'room correction'. 

I am also telling people not to use it to create or demonstrate sounds. 

 

That is because it is global in nature, and not associated with a patch. 

If you adjust the eq in order to create a patch, you just ruined ALL of your other patches. Create them flat. 

 

 

 

GOT IT?