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Octo777

Another disappointed 5150 user....

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Hey folks,

 

its been a while, still using all my L6 gear, just don't have much time to interact these days.

 

When I saw Line 6 had added the Peavey 5150 to the HD models, I had to come and upgrade and was happy to pay for the Metal Amp pack after all, a 5150 was #1 on my wish list for amps.

 

However, I have to admit I am pretty underwhelmed by the 5150 model, I thought something was wrong when I heard all this buzz coming, tweaked a bit and made it go away a bit, but still wasn't ideal by any means.

 

Then I come on here and see that the 5150 being too hot is something many users are experiencing....

 

I'm kind of concerned that someone at Line 6 listened to that Amp model and thought it was OK to be released.....not only that, but that it was OK to CHARGE for it too because well......it's not very good at all, is it?

 

I mean, it definitely sounds like a 5150....it's just a shame it sounds like a 5150 being played from inside a wasps nest.....

I'll persevere for a while when I have time to tweak....but I have a distinct feeling I will be returning and getting a refund, which is a real shame!!! 

 

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I'm starting to like these "How Dare They? / What Were They Thinking? / Have They All Gone Deaf?" threads... :P

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I mean, it definitely sounds like a 5150....it's just a shame it sounds like a 5150 being played from inside a wasps nest.....

I'll persevere for a while when I have time to tweak....but I have a distinct feeling I will be returning and getting a refund, which is a real shame!!!

 

Just curious, what did you tweak first and what haven't you tweaked? How we're you monitoring, headphones, guitar amp, pa etc.? I've seen silverhead say look at the DEP's master volume maybe the resonance. How did you build your patch?

 

Some say they like it so I've got to wonder. I'm interested in the packs but can't get them yet.

 

I'm starting to like these "How Dare They? / What Were They Thinking? / Have They All Gone Deaf?" threads... :P

 

LOL

 

Hey guys,

 

Check out my latest video showcasing the new 5150 amp model.

 

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for the OP, do you have a 5150?  Have you regularly used one or just listened to one on recordings?  From what I have learned so far, these are very realistic models of what the actual amp sounds like and often the raw amp tone is not what we are used to hearing from our favorite performer...  They all take a lot of massaging...

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often the raw amp tone is not what we are used to hearing from our favorite performer...  They all take a lot of massaging...

 

So true, I rarely use the raw sound of an amp model, although there are times I do, lol.

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for the OP, do you have a 5150?  Have you regularly used one or just listened to one on recordings?  From what I have learned so far, these are very realistic models of what the actual amp sounds like and often the raw amp tone is not what we are used to hearing from our favorite performer...  They all take a lot of massaging...

 

If it's not breathtaking right out of the box, then I don't want it...plus, for the $50 they're charging for the Metal Pack, it really should get rid of crabgrass too... ;)

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In addition to what everyone else said, doesn't that amp have a default on axis 57 mic? I haven't bought the model packs yet, but I remember seeing that, and that mic is particularly bad for fizz, or good if you like fizz.

 

For a start you could experiment with changing the mics and cabs to get something closer to what you like, and then work from there with possibly EQs.

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unfortunately (fortunately) the HD500 is a sophisticated piece of gear that requires an approach similar to what a sound engineer would do at a recording desk.  It is a very accurate model of the real gear in its raw form.  It is up to the user to configure it with the right cab/mic settings and effects to get the desired tone.  And I like it that way.  I can pretty much get whatever tone I am after in the end but it takes experience and work to get there...  This is definitely not a plug and play device.

 

From what I have seen, the Amplifi and the X3 live are more plug and play, right out of the box and need less tweaking.  But that also leaves you with fewer overall options to get that sound that's in your head...  It's all a trade off.  I learned a long time ago that my HD500 isn't gonna let me pull up an amp and instantly do an A/B with the real thing and be happy.  But the tools are all there to get damn close...

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The OP has a good point that I agree with...The 5150 defaults are not very good and probably should have been a little better sounding...

 

Master DEP down to 30%, Greenback cab and a 409 or SM57 off-axis do wonders for this model IMHO....There is great tone to be had in the model, you just have to dig for it...

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In addition to what everyone else said, doesn't that amp have a default on axis 57 mic? I haven't bought the model packs yet, but I remember seeing that, and that mic is particularly bad for fizz, or good if you like fizz.

 

For a start you could experiment with changing the mics and cabs to get something closer to what you like, and then work from there with possibly EQs.

 

Good point with the on axis 57 mic you'll get all those highs in the signal for sure. Everyone in this thread has good points.

 

The ol saying "You can please some of the people some of the time but not all the people all the time" goes when comes to this stuff.

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I have posted this a few times before. When the 5150 was released the term "can of bees" was used to describe the sound of the amp by many. I think that means that they probably modeled an original.

 

-Max

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yep, unfortunately too many think that just because so and so used a particular amp on a certain song on their favorite album all they have to do is plug in to the latest modeler and sound just like it...  (not necessarily the OP, just in general).  All those recordings are processed...

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Another thing to consider is that, alone, it may be bee-like, but when put against a background, a lot of it may suddenly disappear.

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yep, unfortunately too many think that just because so and so used a particular amp on a certain song on their favorite album all they have to do is plug in to the latest modeler and sound just like it... (not necessarily the OP, just in general). All those recordings are processed...

Yup...came face-to-face with a similar situation in the studio just last night. A while back I had sold an old Mesa 2x12 cab that I never liked. No matter what I ran through it, I could never get anything but mid-range honk out of it. Sold it to a buddy who owns a small project studio and indie label...we've been collaborating on a bunch of stuff lately. Mic'ed up with an Orange Dark Terror amp (a very cool little amp...and absurdly loud for something that toggles between 7W or 14W), we were getting some really lush high gain tones...in the control room, where I had planted myself. BUT...out in the next room with the amp, still sounded kinda nasal, and not my cup of tea.

 

Point is, what ends up on a record ain't the same as the sound in the room...so if your yard stick for evaluating any modeled version of an amp is the tone on so-and-so's album, you're in for some disappointment, or pleasant surprises...depends on the day, lol.

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I have posted this a few times before. When the 5150 was released the term "can of bees" was used to describe the sound of the amp by many. I think that means that they probably modeled an original.

 

-Max

 

Everyone before the model packs: We want a 5150!

Everyone after the model packs: We had no idea a 5150 actually sounds like that!

 

:D

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Everyone before the model packs: We want a 5150!

Everyone after the model packs: We had no idea a 5150 actually sounds like that!

 

:D

Lol....

 

Actually, this whole thing proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that advertising works. Slap a famous guitar player's name on an amp, and presto! Instant sought-after classic.

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Since posting my video of the 5150 model, I tweaked my patch even more so it sounds a ton better. It is a lot less "can of beesish" than it was in the video. These new amps sound amazing and if you can't tweak them a little in HD500x Edit to get amazing tones, it has less to do with the unit and more to do with the user, no offense.

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These new amps sound amazing and if you can't tweak them a little in HD500x Edit to get amazing tones, it has less to do with the unit and more to do with the user, no offense.

Blasphemer! Nothing is anybody's fault anymore, didn't you get the memo? Just a matter of time before the inability to dial in sounds is officially labeled a "disease" in the DSM...POD crappytoneaphobia. We'll all be able to sue L6 for the cost of therapy!

 

Well gotta go...time to polish my "Just Because I Exist" trophy. Is the day's work EVER done? 😉

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Another thing to consider is the mods techies do for established players that may go unnoticed and may be an unknown.

http://voodooamps.com/home/Modifications/AMPMODIFICATIONS/PeaveyMods/5150/tabid/162/Default.aspx

 

The question is: hopefully Line6 modeled the amp with at least this mod done to it so that we can adjust the bias.

http://wisdomsguitar.com/peavey-5150-6505-bias-mod

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I bought one of the first 5150 amps when they first came out back in 1992 and gigged with it for about 4 years.
MIne never sounded like the model in the Metal Pack. It sounded big with lots of bottom and pretty damn warm.
"Right out of the box."  :)

 

I plugged the head in and "boom", there was the sound I was looking for. And it was replacing the rig I had before which was the Mesa Boogie Studio Preamp and Mesa Boogie stereo Simuclass power amp.

I was playing in a band doing rock and playing 7 nights a week around the country. Everything from "Magic Man" by Heart to "Dr. FeelGood" by Motley Crue. And the 5150 sounded full and warm with tons of sustain and pleasant distortion.

I was kinda hoping for that sound from the model. But it's just not there.

Fortunately there are lots of other amp models in the model packs that do sound great! So I'm happy in that respect.

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Blasphemer! Nothing is anybody's fault anymore, didn't to get the memo? Just a matter of time before the inability to dial in sounds is officially labeled a "disease" in the DSM...POD crappytoneaphobia. We'll all be able to sue L6 for the cost of therapy!

Well gotta go...time to polish my "Just Because I Exist" trophy. Is the day's work EVER done?

Geez , and to think I waste time watching the comedy network, when all I have to do is read the forums for entertainment and enlightenment. lol!

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Everyone before the model packs: We want a 5150!

Everyone after the model packs: We had no idea a 5150 actually sounds like that!

 

:D

 

Baaahhh hahahahaha! Thank you for that! I genuinely LOL'd, might have even snorted a little. Talk about a case of "be careful what you wish for", eh? There's a psych paper in there somewhere, I'm sure of it!

 

I'll admit all the exprience with the amp I have is with later iterations of the amp, but I have played them while they were still 5150s and 5150IIs, and I've played the 6505s and 6505IIs and I can't say they sound like the one modeled here. I'm curious, were people clamouring for a 1st gen 5150, or just 5150s in general? Is this a case of lines being crossed? Considering how this forum is lighting up with people's disapproval my curiosity's getting the better of me.

 

That said, it's not that I don't like it, I personally prefer later revisions of the amp as they are a bit smoother, definitely a bit warmer and have a bit more bass to them. So I just add more bottom end via an EQ and cut the highs with a mid focus like I normally do and get a very servicable sound out of it. I'm still exploring the various offerings in the metal pack, with the Big Bottom and Purge being the stand-out favorites to me. Ironically enough I was vocal about how I didn't like the idea of non-HD models on the platform, with HD FX and EQs I'm getting crazy awesome tones out of them. I'm man enough to admit I was wrong.

 

The point is, don't be afraid to EQ the sh*t of an amp model if it's not sounding right to you, because with a PEQ or two, and/or some hi-cutting it's pretty easy to get most of the amps in the metal pack sounding pretty frickin' awesome!

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Since posting my video of the 5150 model, I tweaked my patch even more so it sounds a ton better. It is a lot less "can of beesish" than it was in the video. These new amps sound amazing and if you can't tweak them a little in HD500x Edit to get amazing tones, it has less to do with the unit and more to do with the user, no offense.

That's very true.

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Another thing to consider is the mods techies do for established players that may go unnoticed and may be an unknown.

http://voodooamps.com/home/Modifications/AMPMODIFICATIONS/PeaveyMods/5150/tabid/162/Default.aspx

 

The question is: hopefully Line6 modeled the amp with at least this mod done to it so that we can adjust the bias.

http://wisdomsguitar.com/peavey-5150-6505-bias-mod

 

The bias mod is in there and one of the keys to killing some of the bees IMO...Modeled Power, Output Trannys and input power options would be pretty neat DEPs to have...

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..... Considering how this forum is lighting up with people's disapproval ...

Of course it is. It happens, very predictably, with almost every major update of any product. The vast majority who are satisfied and have no issues with the update remain silent. The few who have issues can be very vocal about it.

 

To satisfy your curiosity, how about counting the actual number of people (not posts) who have expressed their dissatisfaction? Let us know how many it takes to 'light up' the forum. In fact, also count the people who have expressed their satisfaction. Then, recognizing the presence of the silent majority, we might have some interesting numbers to talk about.

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People who come hear and explain what problem they're having and ask for help are given lots of advice and assistance.  People who come hear and just say negative things are usually stomped on a little.  People are people...

 

If you want help, say what the problem is and what you tried to do to fix it.

 

There's plenty of people here who have the new model packs working very well in the short amount of time it's been out.

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Ha! I didn't know I was limited in how many up votes I can give in a day...  apparently I hit the limit... now I have to switch gears and start issuing down votes... :ph34r:

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Ha! I didn't know I was limited in how many up votes I can give in a day...  apparently I hit the limit... now I have to switch gears and start issuing down votes... :ph34r:

 

Don't get too exited...you're allowed all of ONE down vote per day. Think positive, damn it!... :P

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In defense of the 5150. It was one of the few amps I asked a guy about after his set. This guy had that amp dialed in and was not using too much gain. I do however remember a lot of people hating on the 5150 do to the can of bees sound.

 

-Max

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This guy had that amp dialed in

One of the things I was trying to say about my original 5150 is...it didn't require a lot of "dialing in". Pretty much I got mine out of the box. Hooked it up to a Marshall cab. Put the gain all the way and started playing. Sounded great on both channels. The whole "dialing in" took about 30 seconds of time.

Granted, I was using a good guitar with Seymour Duncan JB humbuckers.

 

I think that's what has thrown people off about some of the models like the 5150.  You should be able to select it. Put the tone controls at halfway, crank the drive and then tweak it from there according to your guitar and pickups. Shouldn't take a lot of time to get the basic "out of the box" tone.

 

Anyway, I'm not really crying over the 5150 model. I thought it would be pretty cool to have, but it turns out it isn't correct. No big deal for me...I've already "been there and done that" with the real thing and moved on anyway in my search for the "holy grail" lol

 

What I think would really be a big step forward would be to have a floor unit that would allow you to pick an amp, and that amp model would have all the channels of the original. And then have a "channel switching" button on the bottom row so you wouldn't have to try to stomp a top row button to get to it.

That way you could switch from rhythm to lead channels and not lose the trailing delay of an effect when you went from lead back to rhythm (just like on a real rig)

 

I find that playing live in a heavy rock band...you really pretty much settle down to one amp/sound.

For me right now, I'm using the Bogner Shiva for crunch and lead and the "Pete's Black Face" for a less heavy distortion straight ahead rock sound. That's pretty much all I need for live gigs.

Now in the studio? I love having all those sounds and amp models. Makes for a very cool sonic pallette.

 

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Robbie61, I used to see a lot of guys in original bands using the 5150. I only thought one guy really got good tone from his that I saw and I had to ask him what amp he was using because it didn't sound like the other 5150s I had heard. It sure sounds like each version of the 5150 sounds different also.

 

I also thought it interesting that a Van Halen amp is used for heavy metal, I never thought of Eddie's tone as being metal.

 

-Max

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This discussion reminds me of Double and Triple Rectifiers....I have heard those one trick ponies totally dialed in sounding fantastic and I have heard the totally fizzed out can of bees tone by those that do not know better....

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A can of bees, beats a flock of seagulls, any day of the week.

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Flock of Seagulls probably used that JC120 amp, lots of the New Wave bands used that amp. Yup I realize it was joke but hey, JC120 right?

 

-Max

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Flock of Seagulls probably used that JC120 amp, lots of the New Wave bands used that amp. Yup I realize it was joke but hey, JC120 right?

 

-Max

 

Most likely did Max, I certainly had one back then. 

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The JC120 amp was one that I thought was really missing from the original HD500 compliment of amps. Now I can go cop some of those 80s tones from bands like The Fixx.

 

-Max

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I don't trust anyone who "cranks the gain" or "puts the gain all the way" and claims to have gotten a good tone. 

Dang, and your trust was all I was wanting. :)

 

I get your point. But I'm still telling you that the first thing I do with a high gain amp is try it out cranking it up. If you don't...that's cool.

 

I've owned a lot of amps in my pro playing years (first gig in 1978...last one was last week). Everything from the Mesa Boogie Mk 2 to the Seymour Duncan Convertible to the Peavey Satriani amp to the Marshall JCM200 TSL to the Bogner Ecstasy and everything in between.

And the FIRST thing I did with every amp was turn the gain up all the way and see what it sounded like.

 

Every amp I actually bought and owned sounded good. The ones that didn't sound good, I didn't buy.

 

That's been my real life professional experience. Maybe you have had different experiences.

I'm simply on here sharing my experience and my thoughts on the 5150 amp model. I don't think any of the straight ahead models like the 5150 should be difficult to dial in.

 

Forgive me if I'd like to see amp models sound a little closer to the way they do when you actually try out an amp. And most "good" amps can be dialed in in just a few seconds in the real world.

 

I'm not talking about the Variac'ed stuff or other hot rodded amps. I'm talking about amps like the 5150. The model version of it just doesn't sound like the real one. (but it's just ONE model...many of the other ones are very good and I have no regrets buying the full model packs.)

 

I'd also like to point out that a lof of the guys I heard trying to use the amp back in the day would immediately go for the "scoop" sound by cranking the highs and lows all the way up and turning the mids all the way down.

 

I NEVER do that. I was always trying to go for that coveted "brown" sound without having to use a tube screamer or rat pedal in front of the amp for leads. So I never scooped my eq on any amp I owned. I usually end up with the bass and highs about halfway up and the mids anywhere from halfway to 75% up.

That alone makes a huge difference when you have the gain jacked up all the way.

 

But everyone's ears are different. And I'm just talking about the tone I liked to use for heavy rock sounds.

I'm not a metal player and I hate those scooped tone sounds. I also don't like a lot of fizzy sounding stuff.

 

The real 5150 could easily get "fizzy" and nasty sounding. But again, I like mids. So it never gave me that problem.

Sorry you don't "trust" me. But that's what I experienced. 

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JC120 should have been part of the initial release. There, I said it. Cary on.

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