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High E string slipping on the JTV69

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I agree.  Anyone who knows how to set up a solid body electric guitar can set up a JTV.  You do want to minimize fret buzz.

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Right,... no voodoo involved in set-ups.
Just have to do it right and be aware a few things.

The specs for one,... the authorized service centers will have access to service info,
and the set-up specs and procedures.

For another,... the distance between the pick-ups and the strings. When the Models
are engaged, if the distance between the pick-ups and strings aren't correct, the
magnetic pull from the pick-ups can cause a warbling effect which gets picked up
by the piezos. And it's an awful sound. Something you don't deal with when it comes
guitars with passive electronics.

And things like that. So it's good to take it to an authorized service person who has
done a few JTV's. And yes, I have done a few JTV's.


This isn't our grandfather's GIbson archtop with passive electronics anymore,...
it's a different kind of cat,... so you have to cuddle this cat under the chin just a
little differently. There are the usual things to be aware of with guitar set-up,...
and some of the not so usual stuff as well.

 

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Suggestion: We can all read instructions, and some of us can even follow the instructions and have skills to do that. Would you be so kind to provide us with enough information to make the adjustments ourselves, e.g. Pickup heights and so on? Though I don't know how much there is beyond a normal guitar setup.

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I would love to see those specs.  Pickup height is no different than on a standard Strat though.  Any guitar sounds funky if you set the pickups too high due to the magnetic pull on the strings.

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I would love to see those specs. Pickup height is no different than on a standard Strat though. Any guitar sounds funky if you set the pickups too high due to the magnetic pull on the strings.

Exactly...one does not need calipers, laser-like precision, or a team of researchers from MIT to set up these guitars. Common sense and a screwdriver will suffice.

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Though I don't know how much there is beyond a normal guitar setup.

Unless we're talking about a funky electrical/hardware problem (which I would probably not tackle myself), the answer is "not much".

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In all my years I never bothered with measurements with setups.

 

Assuming the nut is filed adequately in that there is nothing obviously detrimental (like a really low cut where a strings is gonna buzz out on the first fret no matter how much neck relief there is), I simply give enough relief so open strings are not choked off.... but some fret rattle is ok with me.   Then I adjust the bridge for a comfortable string height for me on that particular guitar and that's basically it (besides intonation of course)

 

I like lower action so I don't mind fret buzz as long as a string doesn't flat out splat out somewhere which would generally mean a high fret there. I'll do my own filing/crowning if it's less than a few places. Otherwise I'd get the entire fretboard professionally leveled and polished.....or the guitar is just too expensive, lol

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Exactly...one does not need calipers, laser-like precision, or a team of researchers from MIT to set up these guitars. Common sense and a screwdriver will suffice.

 

Common sense is sooo rare nowadays, it's almost like having a superpower !

 

There are guys here building their own rigs and making some great mods too !......but we ain't smart enough to set-up our own guitars???? That's like having a car and not being able to change a flat.You should be checking your set-up all the time.....Who's gonna ship their guitar away for God knows how long just for a proper set-up?? Or take a long drive over to Me&Eds Authorized Service Center?  You think it'll happen while you wait ???

 

Lack of info makes the mystical legendary.

 

Good Darn thing WE  share what we've learned between ourselves.

 

                                                          Still Kylling It

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Lack of info makes the mystical legendary.

 

 

 

And it makes the mundane unnecessarily expensive...

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If you look at the main image on Graphtec Black TUSQ XL  -web page, you see very similarly cut nut, the slots for E-G strings are pretty wide, also at the bottom. One difference is that in JTV the strings pass the nut much more straight.

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Now (also) I know that the filled and re-filed nut slots won't fix the problem, although it helps a bit. Changing the E-string to a new 0.010 didn't help either. I think the string bounces up and down in the slot. A string tree is required to pull down the strings, at least the B and E -strings. It's a pitty there is this kind of factory born "feature" in an otherwise great guitar. Easy fix though.

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Does anyone know if any of the 59 also had the high E slipping issue? I am thinking of exchanging the 69 for the 59...

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Does anyone know if any of the 59 also had the high E slipping issue? I am thinking of exchanging the 69 for the 59...

Don't recall hearing any complaints about the 59 as far as slippage is concerned. But any glaring neck issues, you're stuck with...

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Does anyone know if any of the 59 also had the high E slipping issue? I am thinking of exchanging the 69 for the 59...

 

I would think the E slippage on the 69 is from the assumption that a Strat player would want a really small neck.

 

They probably also assume that a strat player would never have a playing style that would make the E slippage problem a concern.

 

Now, I'm not much of a shredder guy, but when I want to tear on a fretboard, I'd like to be able to without any limitations. 

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I would think the E slippage on the 69 is from the assumption that a Strat player would want a really small neck.

 

They probably also assume that a strat player would never have a playing style that would make the E slippage problem a concern.

So you think they knew slippage was gonna be a problem, and just hoped nobody would notice? It's was a bad design, plain and simple. The slippage is from a neck that's too narrow at the nut and string spacing that was not sufficiently adjusted to compensate, and/or poorly dressed frets. If they left enough room at the edges, the remaining strings would be forced even closer together than they are, making open position chords even more of a nightmare, except for the smallest of hands.

 

As for the motivation behind the design, that's anybody's guess...but someone would have to have been out of their mind to base it on either of the assumptions you suggest. Why would anyone assume that a Strat fan would only want a narrow nut? Where is that written?

 

And what playing style would one have to have for it not to be a problem? Buddy Holly, Clapton, Eric Johnson, Ritchie Blackmore, and Yngwie all played Strats...more styles than you can shake a stick at. Strats make regular appearances in just about every genre that exists. Were they hoping that the one guy on earth who never, ever does any pull-offs on the high E string would buy all the 69's?

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Are the fretboards on different jtv models much different in width and string spacing and e-string distance from fretboard edge?

 

It seems the nut width in jtv69s is very slightly narrower than in my "custom shop designed" baja mexico strat 69 (or whatever it exactly is called). Didn't compare distance between E-strings. I have read the USA stratos have strings spread wider.

 

So far I've had no problems with e string slipping from fretboard, but my playing style is "classical". I also like the neck as whole. When I was younger I might have preferred a thin neck, but I don't feel my 2013 jtv69S neck is thick.

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It seems the nut width in jtv69s is very slightly narrower than in my "custom shop designed" baja mexico strat 69 (or whatever it exactly is called). Didn't compare distance between E-strings. I have read the USA stratos have strings spread wider.

 

 

 

It is narrower than your Strat...it's narrower than just about anything else you'll find in production today. Not saying that's good or bad...it just is.

 

So far I've had no problems with e string slipping from fretboard, but my playing style is "classical". I also like the neck as whole. When I was younger I might have preferred a thin neck, but I don't feel my 2013 jtv69S neck is thick.

 

When I hear "classical", I think Andrés Segovia, and the like...those necks tend to be super-wide with flat as a pancake radius. If that's what you're used to, I'm surprised you can navigate the 69 at all...but this is all relative anyway. To me the 69's neck is like a baseball bat. Took me all of 2 months to replace it, but as always, your mileage may vary.

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So you think they knew slippage was gonna be a problem, and just hoped nobody would notice? It's was a bad design, plain and simple. 

 

I meant that they never really thought about it, and assumed that a Strat player would want a neck like that, and they assumed there wouldn't be people who'd really play hammer on/pull offs, or any crazy stuff that would reveal to the company that the neck is actually incredibly small and allows the E strings to slip off.

 

They do know NOW, and they tried to "fix" it, but that's debatable, and it just reduces, and doesn't get rid of the problem.

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If I had ment Nylon String Classical, I would have written classical, without quotes :-) But I ment electric guitar classical, which today might mean Clapton/CCR era ? Though I have (more or less) amateur-seriously studied and played real classical guitar & music for about five years.

 

Just played my JTV-69S shortly and each time I play, the more I like the neck. Currently I have no problems at all with it. Only my playing sucks too often, not depending on the guitar I play :-)

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I am sure the issues with the neck are a combination of playing style and hand size.  I do not think there is any one style neck that suits everyone.  The advantage of a bolt on neck is that you can change it to one that suits your taste quite easily.  It costs some $$ but we all want a guitar that we like to play so I think it's silly to complain about the neck and not do something about it.  Some call it a bad design but others kind of like it.  It's not a manufacturing defect but a design decision. 

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...and they assumed there wouldn't be people who'd really play hammer on/pull offs...

 

And if you're right, this is the Mother of all Stupid Assumptions...

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And if you're right, this is the Mother of all Stupid Assumptions...

 

There's virtually no way I can play efficient hammer ons and pull offs on the E strings without it sliding off, the only thing I can do is let it slide off as fast as possible to make it sound like it's not happening. 

 

If I don't, it'll either be too quite, and or warble in alt tuning modes.

 

 

 

I am sure the issues with the neck are a combination of playing style and hand size.  I do not think there is any one style neck that suits everyone.  The advantage of a bolt on neck is that you can change it to one that suits your taste quite easily.  It costs some $$ but we all want a guitar that we like to play so I think it's silly to complain about the neck and not do something about it.  Some call it a bad design but others kind of like it.  It's not a manufacturing defect but a design decision. 

 

Regardless of hand size, I have never seen a neck with the edge strings so close to the edge. It's ridiculous. 

 

If it really is a hand size thing, then why isn't the string spacing reduced as well?

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Right,... no voodoo involved in set-ups.

Just have to do it right and be aware a few things.

 

The specs for one,... the authorized service centers will have access to service info,

and the set-up specs and procedures.

 

For another,... the distance between the pick-ups and the strings. When the Models

are engaged, if the distance between the pick-ups and strings aren't correct, the

magnetic pull from the pick-ups can cause a warbling effect which gets picked up

by the piezos. And it's an awful sound. Something you don't deal with when it comes

guitars with passive electronics.

 

And things like that. So it's good to take it to an authorized service person who has

done a few JTV's. And yes, I have done a few JTV's.

 

 

This isn't our grandfather's GIbson archtop with passive electronics anymore,...

it's a different kind of cat,... so you have to cuddle this cat under the chin just a

little differently. There are the usual things to be aware of with guitar set-up,...

and some of the not so usual stuff as well.

 

 

 

 

Is there a reason that you won't share the set-up specs with us?

Several peeps have asked and all we get is silence.

Line6 should be happy to share/post any info about setting up our guitars, not keep it a closely guarded secret.

 

                                                                Kylling It

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It's for the Line 6 authorized service techs.

We can't vouch for the abilities of people outside of that. 

Having it done by an authorized service tech means the warranty won't get voided.

 

And,... certain aspects of the set-up are such that, if it's not done right,

the peizos might pick-up something, that when it goes through processing, 

runs the risk of producing artifacts in the audio (like whistling howls or warbling).

 

Set-ups on guitars with active electronics have their own pitfalls and traps,...

unlike guitars with passive electronics. It's not our grandfathers Gibson archtop.

 

If I had a dollar for every time someone sent me a JTV for set-up issue, after

telling me that they of their tech could handle it,... I could retire a rich man.

 

We can't vouch for the abilities of people outside the Line 6 authorized service techs.

And doing anything that changes the functionality of the device, runs the risk of

voiding the warranty (and I don't want to see you void the warranty).

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All we are asking for are the simple setup specs.  That is not too much to ask.  Adjusting pickup height and action should not risk voiding the warranty.  The JTV comes with tools to make those adjustments!

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It's for the Line 6 authorized service techs.

We can't vouch for the abilities of people outside of that.

 

Wow... I can buy the official shop manual for just about any motor vehicle in existence...with all the "double-secret" specs right there in black and white for all the world to see. Suzuki can't vouch for my ability to replace a clutch basket, but it certainly didn't stop them from selling me the book...plus, I can read and turn wrench. And even if I couldn't, it's not their problem anyway. Worst case scenario, I screw something up, then they get to sell me more parts and charge me for the labor to undo the damage. Selling me the book is a win-win proposition for them. I fail to see why the set-up specs should remain a state secret.

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It's for the Line 6 authorized service techs.

We can't vouch for the abilities of people outside of that. 

Having it done by an authorized service tech means the warranty won't get voided.

 

And,... certain aspects of the set-up are such that, if it's not done right,

the peizos might pick-up something, that when it goes through processing, 

runs the risk of producing artifacts in the audio (like whistling howls or warbling).

 

Set-ups on guitars with active electronics have their own pitfalls and traps,...

unlike guitars with passive electronics. It's not our grandfathers Gibson archtop.

 

If I had a dollar for every time someone sent me a JTV for set-up issue, after

telling me that they of their tech could handle it,... I could retire a rich man.

 

We can't vouch for the abilities of people outside the Line 6 authorized service techs.

And doing anything that changes the functionality of the device, runs the risk of

voiding the warranty (and I don't want to see you void the warranty).

 

My guitar, and I suspect that many others, are long out of any warranty period that you have voiced concern over.

What I do or don't do with it is on me.

No offense, but I don't have a kitten to scratch. I just need the correct info to maintain my guitar.

I don't find this to be a viable answer from Line6.

It's a refusal to answer a good question that many of us have asked.

                                                                and

                                                          I'm Still Kylling It

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Sorry,...

If you go to a company and try to get service info from them,

chances are they'll tell you the same thing, for the same reason.

 

You can check the Knowledge Base and see what there

is on it regarding JTV's. I submitted a few things for posting

there sometime back.

 

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After I've read a bit around here in the forum and found that I am not the only one who has an e string slipping problem with my jtv69. But as I wrote back further in this string, I did seriousness of my considerations about taking the fingerboard from my half defect Variax 300. And damn! I'm really happy that I did - although it was not just that, had to fill out 3 of the holes with araldit glue and drill new holes. Paintet the head black too. (with all respect for line 6 logo, but not on the head of a guitar, I think) So now I have a JTV 369 and it's now totally playable compared to before and I'm just so f****** happy about it yea!!

 

(somebody wants to buy a 69 neck :~)

 

(thanks to "puneettaneja" to bring this issue up)

 


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After I've read a bit around here in the forum and found that I am not the only one who has an e string slipping problem with my jtv69. But as I wrote back further in this string, I did seriousness of my considerations about taking the fingerboard from my half defect Variax 300. And damn! I'm really happy that I did - although it was not just that, had to fill out 3 of the holes with araldit glue and drill new holes. Paintet the head black too. (with all respect for line 6 logo, but not on the head of a guitar, I think) So now I have a JTV 369 and it's now totally playable compared to before and I'm just so f****** happy about it yea!!

 

(somebody wants to buy a 69 neck :~)

 

(thanks to "puneettaneja" to bring this issue up)

 

http://imageshack.dk//viewimage.php?file=/imagesfree/2sW69235.jpg

Nice! I like the flat black headstock.

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Sorry,...

If you go to a company and try to get service info from them,

chances are they'll tell you the same thing, for the same reason.

 

Really? I found all of the following service info in a matter of minutes, no begging or sweet-talking required. And it's all free for the taking...

 

Here's all the factory specs from Fender, Gibson, and PRS for anyone who's interested:

 

http://www2.fender.com/support/articles/stratocaster-setup-guide/

 

http://www2.gibson.com/Support/Tech-Tips/Basic-Guitar-Setup.aspx

 

http://www2.gibson.com/Support/Schematics.aspx

 

http://www.prsguitars.com/csc/setup.html

 

The Fender one is a bit lengthy, and is largely a generic how-to guide. You have to scroll down a bit to get to the actual specs, but they're in there.

 

Gibson is particularly forthcoming with their info. Aside from just set-up specs, the second Gibson link has downloadable PDF files with the wiring schematics for several dozen guitar AND amp models.

 

So much for other companies refusing to divulge "sensitive" service info.

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I understand Line6's stand on fooling with the electronics but I do not understand why they would not publish setup info.  Every guitar in the world needs a setup sometime - especially a new one.  It is not practical to send them to Line6 for a setup.  They are likely to come back worse then when they left given what can happen in shipping.  Any good guitar tech should be able to set up a JTV. 

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I understand Line6's stand on fooling with the electronics but I do not understand why they would not publish setup info. Every guitar in the world needs a setup sometime - especially a new one. It is not practical to send them to Line6 for a setup. They are likely to come back worse then when they left given what can happen in shipping. Any good guitar tech should be able to set up a JTV.

None of it makes any sense. If it's no skin off Gibson's a$$ to give us wiring diagrams, then L6 shouldn't care either. Tinker at your own risk, but it's simply not their problem...if you wreck the guitar, it's on you, and it goes to them for service on your dime, not theirs. If you're afraid to touch it for fear of making a problem worse, it still goes to them for service. Either way, L6 gets the business.

 

I can almost guarantee that they're scaring away potential customers who read stuff like this, aren't the do-it-yourself type, and don't happen to live anywhere near an "authorized service center". If I genuinely believed that a set-up was going to involve sending the guitar cross country, I wouldn't have bought one.

 

They wanna keep a lid on how the modeling is done, fine...nobody will fault them for that, but the height of a pickup? Please...the more the same excuse is repeated, the more it starts to look like they're just interested in perpetuating a "mystique" that doesn't really exist.

 

Yeah, yeah...it's not my grandad's archtop. It's not the Hubble telescope either.

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Sorry,...

If you go to a company and try to get service info from them,

chances are they'll tell you the same thing, for the same reason.

 

You can check the Knowledge Base and see what there

is on it regarding JTV's. I submitted a few things for posting

there sometime back.

 

After the blood returned to my brain I thought...........WHAAAAAAATTT???

 

Then I tried to find something here that I could agree with.

 

Sorry....... about says it in a nutshell 'cause that's what this is...........Sorry

 

A little warning here.......we the people ain't gonna like this for an answer.

 

This would be a great time for Line6 Tony to either confirm or deny that this is COMPANY policy.

 

Customers don't like to be kept in the dark about information that would help them keep their musical instrument in top working order, and when they ask for that info all they get is some really vague answer dodging statements like," You have to do the set-up right and be aware of a few things". What few things??? Then," You have to be aware of the usual and some things that aren't so usual"?? Like what??   Don't put the strings on upside down ??? All that is really helpful when I'm a thousand miles out to sea playing a gig on a cruise ship for two weeks and I want to make sure my weapon is dialed in for the next show. And yes, I really do go play on cruises. I just might be not using your equipment any longer though if this is really your company's stance on consumer support. Cruzinon2 proved that it seems that your the only guys with this attitude in the industry and I too might have never purchased a guitar from you if I had prior knowledge that your goal is to keep me in the dark about something "THAT I OWN".

 

Maybe we need a new thread that that will bring this to the public's attention instead of being buried in this one??

This is unacceptable when the forum members are more helpful than the company itself............

 

I need to go lay down....blood pressure just went to zero... and I wonder..... if I dial 411 will someone there be kind enough to tell me where I can get medical aid?

                                                                 Shawn

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Pretty sure there's nothing about getting a setup voiding the warranty. It states if a person works to FIX the guitar that isn't qualified.

 

A setup isn't fixing a guitar, it's setting up a guitar.

 

Being in danger of voiding the warranty because of a setup, especially when L6 gives us a bag of hex wrenches with the guitar, is moronic.

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Being in danger of voiding the warranty because of a setup, especially when L6 gives us a bag of hex wrenches with the guitar, is moronic.

Yes, that's true...but nevertheless, we are all still repeatedly warned about the potential dangers of "unauthorized" personnel doing anything to JTV, and how such an "unqualified" individual cannot possibly be trusted with the factory specs. Who knows what fate we might suffer should the correct pickup height info fall info the wrong hands.

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 Who knows what fate we might suffer should the correct pickup height info fall info the wrong hands.

 

Well, it sounds like it's gonna be something "Unusual".

 

"Pitfalls and Traps" seem to be involved !!       per Line6 service

 

the sky is falling....the sky is falling...cluck .. cluck ...   cluck...

 

You must have dicked with it then.      :ph34r:     Yah, but I'm pretty sure nobody saw me.

 

                                                                  Sarcastic Shawn

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I keep hearing about these special "things" that must be done make the JTV guitars sound right. Is there a secret list of special "things"? How is it that Sweetwater can run these guitars through their 55 point evaluation and setup and not mess up the sound. Do they know about these special "things"?

 

We are not asking for nuclear launch codes, just some basic knowledge on optimizing our guitars. It shouldn't take a trip to the service center and several weeks of waiting to accomplish this.

 

Perhaps an ideal scale entry is needed for this before Line 6 takes us seriously.

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I keep hearing about these special "things" that must be done make the JTV guitars sound right. Is there a secret list of special "things"? How is it that Sweetwater can run these guitars through their 55 point evaluation and setup and not mess up the sound. Do they know about these special "things"?

 

We are not asking for nuclear launch codes, just some basic knowledge on optimizing our guitars. It shouldn't take a trip to the service center and several weeks of waiting to accomplish this.

 

Perhaps an ideal scale entry is needed for this before Line 6 takes us seriously.

 

Agreed...but ultimately, I think we're all wasting our breath. No matter how little sense it makes, it's been made quite clear that we just can't be trusted with such sensitive info.

 

On the bright side, you can get by without it. I've not found my JTV to be any more difficult to set up than anything else I've ever owned. And absent any serious electronics/hardware issues, I don't expect that to change much.

 

Don't set your pickups too close to the strings, allow enough neck relief so that fret buzz is kept to a minimum,  make sure it's properly intonated so the alt. tunings don't suffer, and don't store it in an environment that is either soaking wet, or bone dry. And while it should be obvious, don't play your frets into oblivion...I've seen guys with fret-wear so bad you could park a car in the divots, and they wonder why their intonation is shot to Hell.

 

All the same things that you would do with dear old grandad's archtop...

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Sounds like a lot of these JTV instruments are over-beveled when the frets are installed. Novice workers doing fret beveling will do this . I eliminate all this nut filing shaping business although I am proficient at it by installing Fender LSR rollernuts on as many of my instruments as I can. Jeff Beck uses them for a reason.

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