jandrio Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 Can anyone who responded that they did not experience this issue tell me if they are running the HD500 or the HD500X? -Max ... this in not happening 2 me (jtv69s+hd500, both running under latest fw). i always have the jtv connected 2 the hd500 via the vdi cable (battery removed) when powering-on the system. i always reflash the jtv thru vdi+hd500 and NOT by using the dongle. i have the jtv 69s and the hd500 (as stated). no problems till now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
line-6-user Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 Tried yet again to roll back the HD to 2.32 but keeping the JTV' at the 2.21 and the result is having the HD500 restarting itself after 10 seconds, after which it will work just fine. Another observation, with the JTV CONNECTED TO THE HD500, and ALSO connecting a 1/4" jack to the JTV 69 (the other end of the 1/4" jack not connected anywhere), resulted in the pod working properly from startup!!! This is also true after updating the HD to the 2.62 version! BUT THIS WON'T WORK IF YOU REMOVE THE BATTERY. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jandrio Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 (edited) do u have usb fw 1.04 loaded? ...Another observation, with the JTV CONNECTED TO THE HD500, and ALSO connecting a 1/4" jack to the JTV 69 (the other end of the 1/4" jack not connected anywhere), resulted in the pod working properly from startup!!!This is also true after updating the HD to the 2.62 version! BUT THIS WON'T WORK IF YOU REMOVE THE BATTERY. ... on second thought, i blieve u have a psu problem, since the symptom disappears when the jtv is battery powered. so, can u check with nother psu? Edited May 12, 2015 by jandrio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxnew40 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 i have the jtv 69s and the hd500 (as stated). no problems till now. Thanks, I wanted to be sure since it is not uncommon to write HD500 even if you have the HD500X. I didn't have time to check to see if removing the JTV battery has any effect last night. Based on the results above it seems that if the JTV is fully powered up (by connecting the 1/4 inch) then the HD500 is powering up correctly. It seems that there may be an issue with current draw while powering up both the guitar and the HD500. You can hear the JTV powering up (sounds like a relay clicking) when the HD500 powers up. Knowing how variable these little power supplies can be, it would make sense that some of them may dip the voltage under that maximum current draw when powering up both the guitar and HD500. -Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psarkissian Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 A reminder about 1/4" guitar cables when running from batteries (or XPS power supply),... use a TRS (Tip/Ring/Sleeve) guitar cable [page-5, JTV Pilot's Guide, under 8- Battery Compartment]. It works better that a TS (Tip/Sleeve) cable. TRS uses the battery, signal and return lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_Watt Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 TRS is only useful if you are using an external supply like the XPS. Doesn't do anything for you if you are running in battery mode. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
line-6-user Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 do u have usb fw 1.04 loaded? on second thought, i blieve u have a psu problem, since the symptom disappears when the jtv is battery powered. so, can u check with nother psu? Unfortunately I do not have another 9V 3A - centre -ve power supply... I doubt though, if that is the problem. As stated above, with the HD DOWNGRADED, it will somewhat works... After a self reboot, after 10 seconds from being powered. I wouldn't think that a software upgrade would make the HD draw more power, but I am not an engeneere. It seems unlikely that the power supply has failed, as I am not the only person that this problem has happened to. Maybe Line 6 like to send me a new power supply, so that I can test the theory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
line-6-user Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 OK, I have verified that this is an easily repeatable problem with the new firmware. On My HD500 with the new firmware and a JTV59 and JTV69 with two different VDI cables (not the cables for the USB dongle but the real VDI cable for performance). All you need to do to make the POD completely unusable is to power up the HD500 while the JTV is connected. After power up The foot switches do nothing and the POD is in a bad state. The only way to fix this issue is to power off the POD disconnect the JTV and power up the POD and then connect the JTV after the POD has finished powering up. I will be submitting a ticket as I feel this is a serious defect in the new firmware that needs to be resolved. -Max Did you submit a ticket? I have, but I only had one reply so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxnew40 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I didn't submit a ticket yet as I have to get to my HD500 to get the serial number off of it to be able to submit a ticket. As far as the PSU unit goes. In my experience these little power supply units typically are not designed and manufactured to give a perfect voltage at max current draw. It is very possible that the new POD firmware is doing something a little different when powering up the POD and the JTV. If they are both trying to power up at the same time then they are going to be drawing current from both devices which may cause a slightly out of spec PSU to drop the voltage and if you have any experience with digital gear you will know that voltage drops are nearly always going to cause problems. I don't have another PSU to try either and at the price that Line 6 sells them for I am not going to chance purchasing a new one in the off chance that it may resolve this issue. If I can get to my POD tonight I will submit a support ticket. -Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
line-6-user Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 Got to check the garage for power supplies, hopefully I find one. Again... If the power supply is the problem, Line 6 should warn users about it prior an update. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie_Watt Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 You are jumping to conclusions here. I don't think the power supply has to be regulated to work just fine since the Pod has it's own voltage regulation. Unless you have monitored the supply with a scope, you can't say it's a problem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
line-6-user Posted May 12, 2015 Author Share Posted May 12, 2015 Thanks Charlie. Still waiting for the ticket's reply. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jandrio Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 the psu works perfect with latest fw, it can ABSOLUTELY boot concurrently both the hd500 AND the jtv. so the new fw has nothing 2 do. ur specific psu may b the culprit. may b some capacitor is discharged during the 1st cold-start-attempt 2 boot, so the hd500 restarts, this time the capacitor has been charged and can supply required amperage. anyway, i am just guessing, since u reported symptom disappeared when the battery was installed... common sense says that rebooting is usually connected with poor power supply. i suggest u go 2 ur local store 'n try with a different psu from a new/fresh hd500(x) unit? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
line-6-user Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 the psu works perfect with latest fw, it can ABSOLUTELY boot concurrently both the hd500 AND the jtv. so the new fw has nothing 2 do. ur specific psu may b the culprit. may b some capacitor is discharged during the 1st cold-start-attempt 2 boot, so the hd500 restarts, this time the capacitor has been charged and can supply required amperage. anyway, i am just guessing, since u reported symptom disappeared when the battery was installed... common sense says that rebooting is usually connected with poor power supply. i suggest u go 2 ur local store 'n try with a different psu from a new/fresh hd500(x) unit? It has to be with the update... At least part of it. Using all new firmware it will completely render the HD UNUSABLE, no buttons work, but if I roll back the HD to the previous firmware, I am able to use it, after 10 seconds from fully powered. I will be getting a replacement power supply BUT only if it is absolutely necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jandrio Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 It has to be with the update... At least part of it. Using all new firmware it will completely render the HD UNUSABLE, no buttons work, but if I roll back the HD to the previous firmware, I am able to use it, after 10 seconds from fully powered. I will be getting a replacement power supply BUT only if it is absolutely necessary. ok, pls keep us informed abt final diagnosis, so that -if this is the case- we can also take preventive measures and (possibly) reflash with 2.63... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
line-6-user Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 ok, pls keep us informed abt final diagnosis, so that -if this is the case- we can also take preventive measures and (possibly) reflash with 2.63... Sure! I hope the Line 6 tech people will help soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxnew40 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I still didn't get to my HD500 last night, but we have a drummer audition tonight so I will get the serial number and file a ticket. I also do not believe that the my power supply got flaky at the exact moment I updated the firmware. I do believe that the power up sequence is now different in some way. I can't imagine the firmware change actually making either the JTV or the HD500 draw more current. I really hope this can be resolved with a firmware update in the future. -Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
line-6-user Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 I still didn't get to my HD500 last night, but we have a drummer audition tonight so I will get the serial number and file a ticket. I also do not believe that the my power supply got flaky at the exact moment I updated the firmware. I do believe that the power up sequence is now different in some way. I can't imagine the firmware change actually making either the JTV or the HD500 draw more current. I really hope this can be resolved with a firmware update in the future. -Max Yes, Max, please do file a ticket. We have to put pressure to this. Still no reply from the Line 6 to my ticket. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
line-6-user Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 Just received a new VDI cable ( with metal shroud at both ends ) and can confirm that it made NO difference in solving the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxnew40 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 You are jumping to conclusions here. I don't think the power supply has to be regulated to work just fine since the Pod has it's own voltage regulation. Unless you have monitored the supply with a scope, you can't say it's a problem. I don't think I said that the power supply needed to be regulated. I do know that in most cases these little wall wart power supplies are not designed to be super stable power supplies and often this shows up under max current draw. I have been working in electronics manufacturing and software test since the 80s and in my experience anything that is running a processor will choke when the voltage dips. Even an internal voltage regulator isn't going to be able to make up a serious dip in voltage or current. I didn't even state that this is the problem, just that it may explain what we are seeing. I really did ignore my better judgment when I decided to update firmware so soon after release. The facts in my case are: I never had this issue even one time before upgrading the firmware. Nothing in my setup has changed other than the firmware update. It reproduces on two different JTV guitars with two different VDI cables. The only way I have found to get the HD500 to work at all now is to power up without a JTV connected to the VDI port (I have yet to try the Variax without a battery or with battery and 1/4 inch connected, but those are work arounds not solutions). -Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
line-6-user Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 No difference if you remove the battery. It works OK if using the battery AND the 1/4" jack. Cheers, F Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxnew40 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 the psu works perfect with latest fw, it can ABSOLUTELY boot concurrently both the hd500 AND the jtv. so the new fw has nothing 2 do. ur specific psu may b the culprit. may b some capacitor is discharged during the 1st cold-start-attempt 2 boot, so the hd500 restarts, this time the capacitor has been charged and can supply required amperage. anyway, i am just guessing, since u reported symptom disappeared when the battery was installed... common sense says that rebooting is usually connected with poor power supply. i suggest u go 2 ur local store 'n try with a different psu from a new/fresh hd500(x) unit? And yet actual testing confirms that the new firmware is required to have this issue. Older versions of firmware did not have this issue for me or Line-6-user with the same exact PSU unit. It would be an incredible coincidence for both of our PSU units to go out of spec at the same instant we upgraded the firmware. What this proves is that the firmware is at the very least one component of the problem (I test software for a living and this is just basic troubleshooting logic). The fact that this issue does not reproduce on every unit points to more than one factor required to produce the failure (new firmware plus some other factor we have not yet determined and could use some help from line 6 to find). I will try plugging in a 1/4 inch to the guitar tonight which will cause the JTV to be powered up fully before I power up the HD500. If this fixes the issue then it logically points towards an issue with PSU not being able to maintain voltage under a load. This would be easy to test if I had a scope but I don't. If a new PSU unit fixes this issue then it appears that Line 6 needs to investigate the build quality of the PSU and address why an out of spec PSU didn't cause a failure until version 2.6.2. -Max 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
line-6-user Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 I never had a firmware upgrade going wrong until this one and like you said, is is un unlikely coincidence that both our equipments have identical problems immediately after the upgrade. A very small bit of bad/buggy code can disable a device. I remember buying a used satellite navigation unit, many, many years ago ( I think it was called GPSmart), the guy had done a firmware update and it worked great for a couple of months. One day I switched it on and suddenly the thing couldn't lock to the satellites. Other people had the same thing happening to theirs. The company was reluctant to help and stated that the devices worked perfectly. In the end a computer programmer proved that the firmware update was at fault. The almanac ( some sort of calendar I believe ) had been programmed to not lock to some Satellites after a certain date. The programmer proved that by creating his own firmware. I used it on my device, bringing it back to life once again, in fact was locking to satellites better and faster. I won't EVER be using that company's product again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxnew40 Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 I submitted a support ticket this morning for the issue. I will report back when I receive a response. -Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jandrio Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 ... I will try plugging in a 1/4 inch to the guitar tonight which will cause the JTV to be powered up fully before I power up the HD500. If this fixes the issue then it logically points towards an issue with PSU not being able to maintain voltage under a load. This would be easy to test if I had a scope but I don't.... max, did u try plugging in a 1/4 inch 2 the guitar? if yes, did this fix the issue? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxnew40 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 max, did u try plugging in a 1/4 inch 2 the guitar? if yes, did this fix the issue? I made sure the JTV battery had a charge and then plugged in a 1/4 cable and made sure the guitar volume was up all the way. I next powered up the HD500 while connected via VDI to the POD500 and it still has the same issue of none of the buttons working. I also tried a different power supply but it wasn't a valid test because that particular PSU only puts out 2.5 amps and so cannot be trusted for this type of test (it failed in the same way though). -Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxnew40 Posted May 15, 2015 Share Posted May 15, 2015 I got a response from Line 6 this morning that wasn't super encouraging. It basically says "Didn't happen when I tried it, try re-flashing the firmware" You would think that they would at least do a checksum verification after a flash update to verify that the flash was complete and successful. Maybe I will get lucky and this will fix the issue but I am not going to hold my breath. -Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
line-6-user Posted May 15, 2015 Author Share Posted May 15, 2015 Line 6 has not replied to me since I gave the info they requested... That's not good, I want to sort this matter now! I will contact the support team again, tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxnew40 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Well, all I can say is the results were interesting. I re-flashed my HD500 with the latest firmware as suggested by Line 6 in response to my support ticket. Initial testing seemed to indicate that this fixed the issue of the HD500 not working if the JTV is connected to the HD500 at power up. However about an hour into band rehearsal I switched to the tuner and it wasn't getting a signal so I turned off the tuner and then the HD500 was in the same error state as I had before and now it does the same if the JTV is connected at power up. -Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
line-6-user Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 Now, that's weird! :o I am sure I read that other people in this forum have had problem with their tuner to work on their HD... I will have to find out the post/s. Are you using the original power supply? Still waiting for a reply to my open ticket. :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxnew40 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Now, that's weird! :o I am sure I read that other people in this forum have had problem with their tuner to work on their HD... I will have to find out the post/s. Are you using the original power supply? Still waiting for a reply to my open ticket. :( Yes I am using the original PSU that came with HD500. It appears from my testing that the tuner may be part of the equation. My connections are just JTV to HD500 and HD500 L6 Link to L2 speaker. -Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxnew40 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 The latest response is to send it in for service. I think it is unlikely to be fixed by sending it in, so I guess I just live with it until they release something new. Maybe look for a good deal on a used HD500X. -Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
line-6-user Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 But that means that the JTV would need to be checked also... Or are they sure the problem lies with the HD? I must admit that my finger points towards the.HD, as the symptoms change if it gets downgraded to any of the previous firmware (it will restart itself after 10 seconds and then operates correctly). It would be great if another user could be willing to let us try their hd with our JTV or vice versa. Or if Line 6 would contact our local store and ask for permission to test our products with their demonstration ones. I wouldn't think it would damage it in doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxnew40 Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 I tried two different JTV guitars with my setup as I own both a JTV59 and a JTV69. It seems from the testing that I have done that the new 2.6.2 firmware is required for this error to occur for me, and I am not rushing to send them an out of warranty HD500 so that they can most likely find no hardware problems with the device. I am pretty sure now that the tuner triggers this fault on my device (it might work fine forever if I re-flash again and just never use the POD tuner again). -Max Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
line-6-user Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 OK... I get what you're saying. Mine is also out of guarantee. I am disappointed with Line 6 support though, this will reflect on next equipment purchase decisions... I would have expected to download a log software for both equipments, so for them investigate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonyrat Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Interesting thought about the tuner. I was going to re-flash mine too see. I first turned the HD on and I forgot to unplug the JTV69s and sure enough the HD500 came up with the last preset but would not go to any other preset. Went into monkey and it said that all my gear was up-to-date except the HD500 because it could not recognise it - strange? Turned everything off, unplugged the JTV69s and plugged in the JTV59 - turned everything on - HD worked like it should. Turned everything off. Then repeated the above step with the JTV69s and once again the HD is locked up. Ergo: I think the tuner in my case is a red herring. It has to be something to do with the JTV69s. One observation is that the guitar socket on the JTV69s seems different in the way it clicks in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vernonegbert Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 OK ,it's time to call in the experts ,, I have read every forum I can find and this is the closest I could get to , , my issue is after I updated the firmware of my HD500 to 2.62 I did the global settings and cal'd the pedal and for some reason every time I power it up it goes to the "pedal cal" screen ,, before global reset ,after global reset. reverted my firmware, reverted to the reverted firmware ,, updated in safe mode too btw, whatever, it just keeps coming back to this infernal screen :( ,, Vern Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonyrat Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Just been experimenting with the JTV69s. a) With the VDI link plugged in ONLY - the HD500 locks up. b) With the VDI link plugged in AND the battery in and a guitar lead plugged in - HD 500 Works OK c) With the VDI link plugged in and the Battery ONLY - Does NOT work. d) With the VDI link plugged in and a guitar lead plugged in - Does NOT work. Now this points to the JTV69s (Remember from a previous post of mine - this WAS happening in the prior F/W release. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
line-6-user Posted May 19, 2015 Author Share Posted May 19, 2015 Just been experimenting with the JTV69s. a) With the VDI link plugged in ONLY - the HD500 locks up. b) With the VDI link plugged in AND the battery in and a guitar lead plugged in - HD 500 Works OK c) With the VDI link plugged in and the Battery ONLY - Does NOT work. d) With the VDI link plugged in and a guitar lead plugged in - Does NOT work. Now this points to the JTV69s (Remember from a previous post of mine - this WAS happening in the prior F/W release. You have the identical problem as I have! COME ON Line 6, what's going on? 😠Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anonyrat Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 You have the identical problem as I have! ...and only 12,000 miles apart. I just don't get it. If it was F/W in the JTV69s updated when the last batch of guitars was added, then why not the JTV59. Did that update affect the interaction between the JTV69s and its hardware. The big question why only a few guitars? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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