barks62 Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I got my POD HD500x in February, and I've been working hard to get a good tone for recording. Today I uploaded some clips to SoundCloud to get some opinions from the good folks here in the forums. I used an SLO Crunch amp and Line 6 Drive for the distortion. Nothing else in the signal chain (except a noise gate maybe). I'm going for a Marshall style, hard rock type of tone. Not really like any particular artist, just something that rocks. I tried for a nice, midsy type of tone, but I still like the raunchy type of high end. I'm worried that it sounds grainy or something, but that may be sonic fatigue from listening to it so much. That's why I want to hear what you all think about it. Here is a clip with Guitars and drums: http://soundcloud.com/8house/MASWAC And here is one guitar isolated: http://soundcloud.com/8house/MASWAC-guitar-only I really appreciate any feedback you can give me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arislaf Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 As a guitar tone is very nice. With drums it is more in your face than the drums. Doesn't sit to the mix. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncann Posted May 12, 2015 Share Posted May 12, 2015 I would say the base tone you're after sounds pretty good. It's midsy and woodsy. The high end does sound a little raunchy, approaching a digital-like clipping quality, especially noticeable in the guitar only track. Could be due to the volume difference between the two tracks and me listening with headphones. The track with the drums is more pleasing for the guitar. Much of the rauchyness is tamed, or not heard because of lower volume. I can hear a lot compression artifacts on the drums though, and I can also hear some phasing going on with the drums. Once you get other tracks behind the guitar, particularly bass, a lot of stuff will change and you'll probably find yourself re-tweaking the guitar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barks62 Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 Thanks for the feedback! @arislaf - do you think I should change something in my base tone and re-record it, or do you think it could be EQ'd later? @duncann - the weird drum stuff could be because I used the "distorted" preset in EZDrummer2. I thought I'd like the distorted drums, but I find it does strange things, especially to the cymbals. Not sure if I did that here or not. I didn't think that I could be causing some clipping, which would explain that grainy quality I hear in the high end. Maybe I'll try to lower the output of the Line 6 Drive and see what that does. I've messed with the EQ on the amp and the distortion box, but can't dial that out yet. Same question as arislaf, though... should I mess with the tone now and re-record, or do you think it could be fixed in the mixing stage? I haven't messed with the amp DEP's or the cab DEP's, mainly because I'm a little afraid to lol. I'm worried that I don't really know what they do and I'll mess up my tone. Should I put aside my fears and try messing with something there? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel_brown Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I would work on tone first. Fixing it later with EQ is not something I recommend. Been there and done that too many times and never been satisfied. Your basic tone is good it just needs something to smooth it out a little. Are you using some type of distortion FX in the chain before the amp ? That's what it sounds like to me and the distortion FX just isn't quite right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arislaf Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I go with joel_brown on this, fix it before mix it... The best approach is to set the desired drums, then a bass that sits in the mix and last guitar that sits in the mix and doesn't have the same frequencies of the bass. (cut some guitar low end) Also make sure that same quantity of depth is on all instruments. As I told you mate, the tone isolated is awesome. Just needs a bit effort to sit in the mix. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barks62 Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 @ Joel - yes, I'm using a Line 6 Drive in front of a SLO Crunch amp. The Drive on the distortion pedal is at 51, and the Output is 48. Bass, Mid Treble is 39, 73, 61. Arislaf, what does quantity of depth mean? I have never heard that before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arislaf Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Same amount of reverb on all tracks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncann Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 I'm with everyone else on this. It's better to get things right at the source, rather than try and fix a mistake later on, which then complicates things even more. Don't worry about messing with the DEP controls. I look at them as just more controls, some for fine-tuning, like the amp DEPs, and some for more drastic changes, like the cab DEPs. The master amp DEP could be useful in adding some power amp breakup on top of the existing distortion, and adds a little more balls to the tone. If you increase this, you'll have to decrease the channel volume some. The resonance cab DEP is a powerful and interesting control. If you increase this, you'll have to decrease the channel volume. It also works in conjunction with the thump and decay controls. In some cases, these controls could replace adding an EQ somewhere, freeing up some DSP. One thing you could try is backing off the drive on the Line 6 Drive, maybe around 10-20, or even lower, and upping the output instead. To compensate some for the lower distortion, raise the drive slightly on the amp. But remember that, generally, too much distortion is going to muddy things up. What I like to do is once I have what I think is a good distortion amount, I'll back off just a little. I'll also do that with reverb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barks62 Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 Ahh I get it. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barks62 Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 Thanks duncann. I'll try those things tonight. I always like a lot of distortion and I don't know when to back off of it. That's why I came here! I really appreciate the feedback. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barks62 Posted May 13, 2015 Author Share Posted May 13, 2015 This thread has me thinking that I might be going about this the wrong way. Here is my thought process when recording: 1) Get a guitar tone that I like by itself. I almost never add reverb to my guitar when I play live, so I do the same thing when I'm recording. I'll add delay (especially for solos) but never reverb. 2) When the guitar is mixed with everything else, tweak the reverb and EQ so that all of the instruments fit together. I never thought of #2 as "fixing" the tone, I thought of it as coming up with a mix that works together. But now I'm wondering if this is backwards? Should I be thinking about the amount of reverb and such when I'm coming up with my basic tone? I feel like the type and amount of reverb and EQ could change depending on the other instruments, and I could get caught in an endless loop of "Adjust my tone, re-record, listen with bass guitar, adjust bass guitar tone, re-record bass guitar, listen with my guitar, adjust my guitar tone..." You get the idea... That's what I've been afraid of, which is why I don't add much to my base tone. But I'm very new at this, so there's a good chance I could be going about this the wrong way! Should I adjust my way of thinking? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cruisinon2 Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Thanks duncann. I'll try those things tonight. I always like a lot of distortion and I don't know when to back off of it. That's why I came here! I really appreciate the feedback. I have found over the years that you tend not to need as much gain as you think...old habits die hard, though. This thread has me thinking that I might be going about this the wrong way. Here is my thought process when recording: 1) Get a guitar tone that I like by itself. I almost never add reverb to my guitar when I play live, so I do the same thing when I'm recording. I'll add delay (especially for solos) but never reverb. 2) When the guitar is mixed with everything else, tweak the reverb and EQ so that all of the instruments fit together. I never thought of #2 as "fixing" the tone, I thought of it as coming up with a mix that works together. But now I'm wondering if this is backwards? Should I be thinking about the amount of reverb and such when I'm coming up with my basic tone? I feel like the type and amount of reverb and EQ could change depending on the other instruments, and I could get caught in an endless loop of "Adjust my tone, re-record, listen with bass guitar, adjust bass guitar tone, re-record bass guitar, listen with my guitar, adjust my guitar tone..." You get the idea... That's what I've been afraid of, which is why I don't add much to my base tone. But I'm very new at this, so there's a good chance I could be going about this the wrong way! Should I adjust my way of thinking? The end result is all that matters...if it sounds good to you, then it is good. Doesn't much matter how you get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncann Posted May 13, 2015 Share Posted May 13, 2015 Yep. Ultimately, it's up to you about how you feel comfortable with the process. And even when you discover what works best for you, there can be variations on that depending on the song. From my perspective, sometimes it might be finding a guitar tone first, using that as a seed, and sprouting the rest, bass, drums, clean back, etc., from there. Another time the bass might be the seed, or a heavily distorted backing track. Use your intuition, occasionally to the point of letting the song tell you how to proceed, instead of you forcing a way forward. Really no right or wrong way here, only discovery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joel_brown Posted May 14, 2015 Share Posted May 14, 2015 Sometimes a distorted sound really doesn't have as much distortion as you might think. Something I recommend is reducing distortion and adding a little compression. Distortion usually adds compression and sometimes we get used to that feel but end up with too much distortion. I hope this makes sense... It's late and I'm tired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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