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How do you like to dual amp?


mattbarden
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Just curious on everyone's different approaches to dual amps in the HD500/X/Pro? I personally like to use the same amp/cab sims set with the exact same settings only with two different mics to simulate a cab that's being double mic'd. For my Treadplate model I like the matching cab with the 57 on axis and the 87 condenser mics. It sounds much more full and alive to me than running a single amp sim with only one mic. Let chat folks, how do you like to use it?

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I cheat with my Dual "Amping". I know this is not exactly what you asked, but maybe it helps a few people.

 

Whenever I want to make a really good stereo Preset I just put the Pitchglide with Pitch +0,1 and Mix 40 - 100 in one channel strip after the Amp. This way it gives a sligt stereo-effect, as if there were 2 amps playing. One left. One right. The principle of it could also be called "Chorus", because I guess a chorus does just that: Putting a slightly pitched signal to the Original signal.

 

But it definetly sounds different to a Chrous-effect, just as there are two amps playing (But the same amp of course).

 

I "borrowed" this thing from Glenn Delaune's patches, who puts a Stereo Delay in one of the Stereo Channel strips to get this "2 amps" feel. I just experimented from that point. I thought "Maybe theres other useful stuff to achieve this."

 

I do REAL Dual Amping rather seldom, because of the DSP suckage of my HD500. But my favorite by far is the classic stuff: 

Plexi Brt left - J800 right. The cab is more of a "gut-feeling". Most of the time I use the SM57 axis on one and the off axis on the other. Best of both worlds (or mics).

Things I don't really like: Dual Amping with 2 really High Gain Amps. Exp: The Bogner and the Tread. Either the customtone ones, nor my own ever sounded good to my ears. But maybe that's just my taste.

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You got what I asked for to a T actually so thanks for the input! That's exactly what I wanted to do with this thread was get a bunch of different people's input to open up newer users to different techniques. When I was just starting out with Line 6 gear I lived on these forums for tips and got lots of help so I'm just trying to give it back now.

 

I know the pains of the 500's "DSP suckage" as you called it all to well. I'm actually kinda glad I broke the used one I bought (they don't take kindly to spilled beer...just a heads up) so I could get a brand new X, with a 3 year warranty to boot! The extra DSP has been a godsend for me. I'm really not that FX heavy of a player yet even I still ran into DSP issues with the old 500. I don't hit that wall at all now, it took a dual amp patch with nothing but pitch based FX to finally get there on the X. I think it was 5 or so when it finally did it but honestly who would ever use that many in a real life scenario anyway? I was trying to max it out and it took some work is the point. It's strange how they marketed the HD's when they originally came out as being able to do "any combination of FX in any order" when that certainly wasn't the case until now.

 

I agree on the not liking mixing 2 different amps for dual amping. I used to do that on the X3L to try and produce "my own amp" so to speak but I found it insanely time consuming and more often than not had little to no payoff. I used to quad track my guitars just to get the extra mics I'm getting with the dual amping technique I'm using on the X now but with half the work. Most studios are going to record multiple mics on a speaker now anyways. I see it as I'm just one step closer to how they are actually doing it in one shot instead of doing multiple takes to get the same result. This is one area Guitar Rig still owns Line 6 on since they have, what 5 mics is it on any given signal you can mix and match?

 

I tried Glen's delay trick too but honestly I could never get it to work quite as good as actually dual amping. I know the logistics to it but I was never able to get it to sound quite right to my ears. Kudos to you for you success with it though. Glad it's pulling up the slack from the DSP limitations so you don't have to dual amp if you don't need to. What works, works and that's just it in the end. The beauty of modelers is making them do what we need them to do to suit our own personal needs without spending thousands on separate amps and FX.

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That's my main problem, too. Or, was. I was the only guitar player in a band and it was great going into a good PA with 2 XLRs to Dual Amp. (The glorious Plex/JCM combo)

And, like it always is, you write some werid songs, you write some good songs and then you write a song which seems to say "Dude, put some oldschool Iron maiden harmonies in me!"

So the trouble starts. Because of course you want a Gate at the beginning just for "Cleaning purposes", of course a OD Pedal to boost the british amps and maybe a Delay or a Reverb or a Chorus.

 

Maybe I could have made an extra patch with the harmony stuff where I downsize the rest of effects. But as a singer I tend to keep it as simple and stupid as possible, so I wasn't capable of switching banks inbetween songs, And my main FS 5-8 presets where already my Clean, Crunch, Rhythm and Solo patches. That's where the stereo effect with the Delay comes in handy.

I also works with other Delays, such as the Digital (w and w/o Mod). A nice gimmick there is you can adjust Bass and Treble a bit to your taste, which can completely lift the whole patch up. Or make it even worse :D 

 

What I have yet to try: Meambobbo's style of dual cabinet. I have read about it quite some time ago and came back to it as I saw one of my fav. guitarists live and he was playing the same 2 amps through 2 different boxes (Like you mentioned in your original post). Definetly have to dig deeper in that matter. DSP isn't the big problem anymore because we are now 2 guitarists ^^

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up until last night / this morning, my main high-gain rhythm patch was a dual amp patch.

 

I used to (after my typical gate>red comp>screamer>gate) run the F Ball/tread cab/57on and the Solo100 OD pre(funny story)/hiway/57off as a dual amp patch with a para EQ and a 4 band after.

 

in the mixer, I would center-pan the amps, turn the solo down and gradually raise it juuuuust until I got the desired tonal characteristic.

 

Then I got the new amps.

 

Now it's simply comp>screamer>gate>panama/tread/57on>graphic EQ

 

With much bigger, badass-er results.

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I might have to pick up the new amps this weekend since they're on sale. I probably won't even end up using them for a while yet since I'm really happy with my Treadplate tone but for the price it's hard to pass up.

 

What's the story behind the Solo100 pre Alex? I like a good funny story. I like to use the Solo myself for lead stuff here and there, that's a good sim and it was free!

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Well it's not really a funny story.. I just didn't realize I was using the pre model for my main patch.

 

I felt like tweaking one day and I went to mess with the DEPs when I realized it didn't have any. Took a while before I figured it out, and even then I didn't put it together for a while, that I had been using the pre.

 

I tried the full and it just wasn't the same, no matter what I did. The pre models cost less DSP and it sounded good, so I just rolled with it.

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I do the dual mic trick too, same amp/cab a lot of times 57 on axis on one amp, 57 off axis on the other. Pan both to center.

 

I also like to mix different amps. My favorite is AC30 and Marshall Plexi. Pan them hard left and hard right, and add a digital delay to one of the amps signal chains, before the amp. Set the delay mix to 100% and a very short delay time. The idea there is to delay the signal to the second amp, giving a better stereo separation--sounds more like two guitars playing.

 

Finally, in both of these setups I assign a foot switch to each of the amps. In some songs I might turn one of the amps off say for the verse and then kick it back on for the chorus.

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I also like to use the same amp dually with different cabs and/or mics.

 

Depending on the situation, I'll sometimes adjust the gain of one amp lower than the other, and also possibly the channel volume lower on one amp. I'll do this when I like an cab/mic combination that has a little too much fizz present. All the other settings I put the same.

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I like the verse/chorus technique Brian, I might have to use that sometime. I've just been using the volume pedal for some reason but your way is much more efficient. I typically don't change my volume that much other than just picking with different strengths but sometimes you need a little extra something.

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"I also like to mix different amps. My favorite is AC30 and Marshall Plexi. Pan them hard left and hard right, and add a digital delay to one of the amps signal chains, before the amp. Set the delay mix to 100% and a very short delay time. The idea there is to delay the signal to the second amp, giving a better stereo separation--sounds more like two guitars playing."

 

Definetly have to try this combo out. It reeks just like classic rock.

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up until last night / this morning, my main high-gain rhythm patch was a dual amp patch.

 

I used to (after my typical gate>red comp>screamer>gate) run the F Ball/tread cab/57on and the Solo100 OD pre(funny story)/hiway/57off as a dual amp patch with a para EQ and a 4 band after.

 

in the mixer, I would center-pan the amps, turn the solo down and gradually raise it juuuuust until I got the desired tonal characteristic.

 

Then I got the new amps.

 

Now it's simply comp>screamer>gate>panama/tread/57on>graphic EQ

 

With much bigger, badass-er results.

 

Is there any specific reason you use red comp over tube comp? I always used tube comp since its the most transparent compressor pedal on the Pod HD.

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Hey now Giorgos, this thread wasn't made to criticize other people's settings but rather get other people's opinions...Keep it cool man. Opinions aren't wrong. You can disagree but be cool about it. I know a lot of people like the red comp, a lot of stuff you see people doing on Youtube uses red comp in the chain with great success. The color contrast thing might have been a joke for all you know.

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But on a side note, anyone own a Variax here? I'm looking at them and I downloaded the workbench, even though I don't have one. I just wanted to see what options are available. Honestly I'm kind of disappointed with the modeled pickup selection. I would have assumed they would have at least modeled the EMG 81/85 combo. I don't use EMG's myself but they seem to be lacking in any sort of higher output pickup selection overall. Maybe I'm just not keen to their terminology for what they have but from what I see they are more geared towards vintage pickups. Am I missing something or is that pretty much what the deal is?

 

What type of guitar is everyone using btw? This is always a variable to different people's setups. I currently flop between an LTD H-330FM, an LTD EC-200QM and a Washburn Dime36 G16. I love the stuff ESP/LTD puts out, great value for what your getting. The Washburn was an impulse buy. I tried to look it up on the web while I was in the store and couldn't find hardly anything about it and for what they were selling it for, I was like what the hell why not? I've owned other Washburn's in the past and they are solid axes but always seem to need a pickup change to make them sing. All my guitars still have the stock electronics, even the Washburn (for now). That one's going to be my Franken-guitar. I love the 330 though, it's my go-to axe. Super light for a mahogany body, it is chambered according to the sales guy though so that does help with the weight a bit. MUCH lighter than the EC-200.

 

As far as my 330 goes, say what you will about the active ALH-200's but for what they are they are not a bad stock pickup at all. From what I have researched they are supposed to be more like a passive with the benefits of actives. Kind of like the James Hetfield EMG set is made to do, but I'm sure those are better. But the 200's are not bad at all. I've tried the 81/85 set as well as the Blackouts, both with and without the 18v mod, and I've had better results with the 200's to be honest.

 

I may not have the best guitars on the market but for me they are working great so like I said earlier, keep the snarky opinions to yourself. I've owned plenty of guitars that cost more than what I'm using now and traded them out so a higher price doesn't always necessarily mean a superior guitar. I once had a Gibson that I absolutely hated. It's all about what works for you.

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I have the Variax. The JTV89F is the one I have.

 

Got it with high hopes. I also have a Brian Moore IGuitar with a Roland pin output and an old Roland V modeling amp.
With that Roland I can do tunings, different guitars, beautiful acoustics, and lots of other things like banjos, sitars, etc.

But I'd always wanted to try the Variax because then I would be able to use it with any amp.

UNFORTUNATELY...It's pretty much useless for the tunings. There's some kind of well-documented "bleed" somewhere in it. So you get a tiny bit of the original string tuning along with the alt tuning. And it sounds like holy hell when it does that. I was really looking to use it for some cool open tunings in my live gigs. But it can't do it without sounding discordant to the point it's unusable.  It does seem to do "okay" for drop "D" tuning. But that's about it. Very disappointed in that.
Especially since the premise of it is so good. I had set up my patches on my HD500 with the alt tunings programmed in and they would kick in whenever I used that particular patch. 
I even recorded the thing in "Open G" tuning straight to my recording studio (no hd500 or amp...just straight from the guitar into the mixer). I played single open notes (the high notes are the worst). You can clearly hear the dissonance on playback.
I sent the recording to Line 6 support and asked them about it.
They replied that they couldn't hear what I was talking about and I'm just hearing the strings "acoustically" when I'm playing.
LOL! 
It was plain as day on the recording. But they seem to be in denial over that one issue.
I'd also like to point out that if I use the Roland GK system...there is absolutely NO dissonance. It works perfectly.  So that was a big disappointment for me.

 

Another "bad" thing for me was...the guitar and pickup models. They sound alright. That is until you turn it off and use the "normal" magnetic pickups in the JTV89F.
And that blows them all away.

That's the good thing about the JTV89F guitar. It sounds GREAT as a "normal" guitar using the mag pickups. And once you get it set up the way you like for your playing style...it plays like a dream.

I got mine on sale late last year when all the online music stores were blowing out for half price. So I got a really good guitar for under $800.  I'm happy about that.
But I DIDN'T get the guitar that is advertised.  Trust me...once you play the magnetic pickups you won't want to use the weak guitar models and pickup models in the electronics. None of them have the output gain to even come CLOSE to the magnetic pickups. Not even the "Lester" pickups or the special "high gain" 89F modeled pickups either.

I even tried turning the pickup models volumes up to 6 db (all the way..default is 0 db). They still didn't have the tone and character of the magnetic pickups.

So my advice is: If you want a great playing guitar that sounds really good with it's real pickups...the JTV model is a good guitar.
And for "Drop D" tuning it works pretty good...BUT you'll have to use the weak modeled guitar/pickups in the electronics to get that tuning.
Also...it does sound pretty good when you use the electronics to model an acoustic. Especially now with the acoustic amp model in the HD500.
No, it doesn't sound like a "real" acoustic in the way the Roland can emulate...but it's close enough to be useful in live performance.  :)

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Thanks for the input robbie, that's what I was afraid of. Honestly, if I just want to jam to something in a lower tuning at home, I find the pitch glide to be sufficient for that. I would never record or gig with it but for dropping down from standard E to say, standard C with the -4 setting just to rock some Dethklok at home is totally fine for me. I have other guitars for dedicated alternate tunings anyways. Unless it's on a good sale AND they add some additional pickup options I think I'll save my money for now. I'm very interested in the DT series amps though...I'm currently running 2 FRFR PA speakers but man do those DT's sound sweet. With the X in addition I can only imagine the tonal possibilities to be had.

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I have the DT50 amp and it does indeed sound good with the HD500.  Right now though...it's in the shop (and has been for 2 months) waiting on power transformers from Line 6
The last update was that the transformers MIGHT be at Line 6 by June 15th. And then I'll still have to wait for them to be shipped to the repair shop and then wait for them to get the amp running again.

But it does sound REALLY good. And the amp by itself also sounds great.

One caveat...if you have patches with amps having different "topology" you'll get a loud popping sound when you switch between those patches. It really sucks when you're playing live gigs.
Fortunately for me...I like to find a killer tone and stick with that amp. More drive and volume for the lead sound with some delay and less volume and drive for the crunch sound with no delay.
I also like the new Fender amp sound in the vintage pack for a more clean sound. So what I do is program it to have the same "topology" as my main heavier amp does. It changes the tone slightly but then I simply fiddle around with eq and cabinets until I get it the way I want it to sound.
That eliminates the loud "pop" when changing between amps.

And the HD500 comes alive to me when it's running through the DT50. The tubes add that little something that seems to be "missing" in the HD500 alone. You don't really notice it until you play it through the DT50 and get the real tube goodness mixed in. But then you really hear it and you'll love it.

I went with the DT50 112 combo.

I think now I'd probably go with the DT25 112 combo (they didn't have the DT25 when I got mine). The DT50 is freakin' LOUD. lol

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I've only played through the DT on it's own without the extra sauce the 500X has to offer but even that was freaking awesome. I might have to go with the 2x12 DT50 combo or even the head and stack. I know the 2x12 and stack cabinet have a mix of the G12's and V30's, I've always been partial to the V30 speaker myself but to have both opens up a lot of different micing options. The 1x12 only has the G12 I know but that sounded very good to me so the 1x12 would be a good option if I wanted to save some $. That's the one I played on and it sounded excellent to my ears.

 

I'll keep that topology tip in mind should I pull the trigger on the DT. I tend to stick to one amp for cleans, one for crunch, one for rhythm and MAYBE a different one for leads if my rhythm one doesn't cut it with a boost or something.Thanks for the heads up!

 

Don't the 50's have the ability to switch to 25w mode though? I'd rather get the best of both worlds and be able to jam in low power at home and crank it up in live situations.

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And the HD500 comes alive to me when it's running through the DT50. The tubes add that little something that seems to be "missing" in the HD500 alone. You don't really notice it until you play it through the DT50 and get the real tube goodness mixed in. But then you really hear it and you'll love it.

 

Ironic isn't it? The POD is supposed to emulate the tubes :) I imagine having a real cab is another factor

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Hey now Giorgos, this thread wasn't made to criticize other people's settings but rather get other people's opinions...Keep it cool man. Opinions aren't wrong. You can disagree but be cool about it. I know a lot of people like the red comp, a lot of stuff you see people doing on Youtube uses red comp in the chain with great success. The color contrast thing might have been a joke for all you know.

 

Who criticed whom? This thread, and this forum in particular, was indeed made to get other people's opinion, share personal experiences, discuss about them and learn from each other. And I was really eager to start a constructive conversation with this guy and share my personal experiences since I have gotten decent results with the tube comp and he has gotten good result with the red comp.

 

Now, claiming to use a specific compressor pedal over another because of its' color is just sad and it shows "bad manners", in my opinion. I wouldn't be so derisive with no reason to a complete stranger. I always try to be polite with everyone in here because that's the right thing to do. But then again, it might be just me that I have misjudged things. :) Either way, if you can't see my point, I will just leave this conversation here. 

 

Have a nice day people :)

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But on a side note, anyone own a Variax here? I'm looking at them and I downloaded the workbench, even though I don't have one. I just wanted to see what options are available. Honestly I'm kind of disappointed with the modeled pickup selection. I would have assumed they would have at least modeled the EMG 81/85 combo. I don't use EMG's myself but they seem to be lacking in any sort of higher output pickup selection overall. Maybe I'm just not keen to their terminology for what they have but from what I see they are more geared towards vintage pickups. Am I missing something or is that pretty much what the deal is?

 

What type of guitar is everyone using btw? 

Ι own 4 variax, 2 300, 1 700 and 1 jtv69s (modded with dimarzio) I have 4 more guitars (and 1 l.p. custom coming) but my main guitar that I use 90% is the JTV. 

 

As for the pickups of models, you can create a hot pickup by yourself.

 

http://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=68

 

download this to get the idea what you need to do.

 

+some of us already created guitars for metal.

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really dude?

No, not really! I just seem to get better results from it with my 8 string.

 

And for the record, I don't see this comment as being judgemental, it was actually the kind of reaction I was going for.. I'm a joker at heart, forgive me.

 

And while I'm at it, I play an Agile Intrepid Pro 830 with passive Cepheus pickups, maple neck-thru with mahogany wings and 30" scale.

intrpro830mncpnat5.jpg

Maybe my choice of guitar has to do with why I like the red comp over the tube comp, Idk. I just remember messing with both and the tube comp choked the purr I get from my low notes and the red comp does the opposite.

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No, not really! I just seem to get better results from it with my 8 string.

 

And for the record, I don't see this comment as being judgemental, it was actually the kind of reaction I was going for.. I'm a joker at heart, forgive me.

 

And while I'm at it, I play an Agile Intrepid Pro 830 with passive Cepheus pickups, maple neck-thru with mahogany wings and 30" scale.

intrpro830mncpnat5.jpg

Maybe my choice of guitar has to do with why I like the red comp over the tube comp, Idk. I just remember messing with both and the tube comp choked the purr I get from my low notes and the red comp does the opposite.

 

It's strange, because I too have a 7string tuned in Drop G# and Tube comp really gives my that punch in the pick attack I want in the low strings. I place it right before my OD with threshold:40% and level 0%

 

How do you set the red comp?

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Don't the 50's have the ability to switch to 25w mode though? I'd rather get the best of both worlds and be able to jam in low power at home and crank it up in live situations.

Yes, but...it's basically the old "pentode/triode" trick. And that changes the way the amp sounds. Some prefer the tubes running off of 3 pins (it's different...more "spongy")

But after owning many tube amps that had that in the past I kind of already knew that I wanted 5 pins firing on the tubes for my personal taste.

And when I tested it with the DT50, I came to the same conclusion.

That's why I kinda wish that the DT25 had been available when I got my "50"   Though with the different power tubes of the amps, I'm sure the tone is different for each.

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It's strange, because I too have a 7string tuned in Drop G# and Tube comp really gives my that punch in the pick attack I want in the low strings. I place it right before my OD with threshold:40% and level 0%

How do you set the red comp?

I set it with the sustain at 55% and the level at 70%.

 

I've been A/Bing my Panama patch with the tube compressor set to your settings, and the red compressor with my settings and they sound very close.

 

I think the tube compressor in the context of my patch does have a little more bite to it, I'll keep playing around with both.

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Ok, so far ive substituted my red comp for your tube comp in my 5150, SoloFire (solo/fball), and Big Bottom patches and it seems to open the sound up a bit more, which works great for my 5150 and SoloFire, but opened up a few frequencies in the Big Bottom I didn't like, while making it sound more alive.

 

So far Giorgos02, I think you may have converted me. But now the colors don't look so nice in edit laugh.gif

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Ok, so far ive substituted my red comp for your tube comp in my 5150, SoloFire (solo/fball), and Big Bottom patches and it seems to open the sound up a bit more, which works great for my 5150 and SoloFire, but opened up a few frequencies in the Big Bottom I didn't like, while making it sound more alive.

 

So far Giorgos02, I think you may have converted me. But now the colors don't look so nice in edit laugh.gif

 

 

Haha, I'm glad I helped man!

 

By the way, I know the high end trouble of the Big Bottom. Maybe try to cut off the ugly frequencies with a parametric?

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Oh I'm sure I can tame those BB frequencies If I can tame the 5150. I'll get around to it whenever I feel like using it again. I'm not even at home anymore.

 

I've been using the graphic EQ on the 5150. I usually use PEQ but I wasnt having a lot of success at the time when working on it

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Oh I'm sure I can tame those BB frequencies If I can tame the 5150. I'll get around to it whenever I feel like using it again. I'm not even at home anymore.

 

I've been using the graphic EQ on the 5150. I usually use PEQ but I wasnt having a lot of success at the time when working on it

 

Be careful with the Graphic EQ man. It has a wide Q and it is not adjustable. By boosting or cutting frequencies you will affect a wide area around the centered frequency. I believe you know that :P

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OK, so im about to be new owner of Pro X and i have no experience what so ever from pod hd pro x. I only have read stuff around my question but haven't found satisfying answer/post.

 

So my plan is to create pretty basic 'Teh djentz' style of bass patch for myself. Now, is this possible.

 

Path A: Gate, comp, dist, amp, eq(set as hipass)

Path B: Gate,comp eq(set lopass)

Path A:panned left 100%

Path B: panned right100%

Run this out from unbalanced L and R into solid-state stereo amp(L and R inputs) and from there to my two bass cabs (L and R).

So from what i have learned on this Forum, i can balance my clean lows and hi distortion from my power amp, by just adjusting gain levels?

No cab or mic sim cos i have TC RS 212 on top and bottom so two separate cabs overall.

 

Sorry but im noob so i have yo ask:/

 

P.S what sort of power amps ppl here use with hd500(x) or hd pro(x)?

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That's a bit more complex than I usually set up my FX routing, but for the sake of being helpful I ran a quick test in the edit software and I was able to setup a chain like that so you should be good to go! Are the Pro's compatible with 500X patch files? If they are I could save the template and send it over to you to help get you started. Then you could just change them to whatever specific FX/amp model you want to use.

 

I use 2 150w 12" FRFR PA speakers to amplify my 500X and it works great!

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intrpro830mncpnat5.jpg

 

That guitar looks sick dude! How are the Agile's? I've been very tempted to try them out but I don't know anyone who owns one. How well was it setup when you got it? Their pricing is definitely reasonable, I've been debating ordering one for quite a while now.

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@Matt

Mine is the only Agile I've touched. Ive had it for a little over a year now. The thing about Agile is they don't really have any QC after the guitars are made and shipped from South Korea. That means when you open the box, it has most likely last been touched by whomever packed it in SK. You almost don't know if you're going to get a dud or not.

 

I know how it may sound, but Kurt at Rondo (they sell the Agiles) has an excellent return policy in CONUS. If there's ANYTHING not to your liking you can refund/exchange no questions asked. Mine came in near perfect condition. The nut is a little sloppy but everything else was fine except some fret buzz on the higher strings. I emailed Kurt and he said I could either adjust the truss rod a little bit, or if I didn't want to, he offered to take it back(!). I'm not too particular about set ups (I usually just do a little tweaking myself) but there was little I had to do besides the truss rod tweak. The pickups are excellent (said to be modeled after the Lundgren M8) and I've wired the coils to split.

 

I love it and it is my main guitar.

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That's pretty sweet. Did you just order a stock one or did you go custom shop? Curious because I would be going the custom shop route if I do order one, just wondering how long it would take to get after I ordered.

 

It's very enticing though, I can build my dream axe with a hard case included. They have some very nice looking finish options to choose from too, I think that'd be the hardest part lol. I've never shopped for guitars based on finish but if I had the option to choose whatever I wanted, man, that could take days to finally decide!

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It's stock.

 

All Rondo needs to do at this point imo is make a headless model. Agile are built in the same factory as some of the strandbergs, so it could happen... Maybe.....

 

Or not... But I'd like to comfortably sit somewhere and play an erg without stabbing someone in the face with string ends and a pointy headstock

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