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jkuche

*** Firehawk- sudden loss of output on stage . No signal out. ***

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I have been using the FH live with great sound. Been going straight out to the board, OR through a small FRFR amp. I must report a serious issue. I have experienced several instances of sudden loss of all output in live settings (small venues of 30-40 seats to larger of 370 seats).  Dead in the water. Zip. Nada. Not cool when the band gives me the "look". It's happened during soundchecks, rehearsals , and in the middle of a show. Typically, I will change a preset or tweak a parameter ( all times I am linked via bluetooth to a tablet)- I can't recall exactly what . I have desperately tried switching the output to the board by trying the right 1/4" out, going XLR out ( DI mode), and changed cables. The only fix is a re-boot. One instance , the mode button was accidentally depressed .

 

I have also had the pedal change assignment or stop functioning -always using a 2nd expression pedal EX-1.

 

Please comment if you have had similar experiences.

 

Line 6, please advise.

 

I will continue to use the Firehawk in all live shows from acoustic trios up to 10 man worship bands. It is awesome! 

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Do you have to be connected to the app when playing live? My first thought is that it could be the bluetooth playing up

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I had a unexpected loss of volume a few weeks back at practice, still don't know what happened. I am not using the firehawk live until issues get resolved (my return period is long over).

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happened to me too, just once at practice.

 

All I can tell you is it was a factory preset, I was adjusting one of the knobs, I think the drive.  I had to reboot to get it back.

 

I have about 20 hours playing time on it and I usually leave it powered up and guitar connected at home.  This way I can grab and jam when the TV shows are a suckin'.   Hasn't done it since, but a little scary.  My first show with it will be at my house on the 3rd of July.  I will use my Digitech on stage for now.  If it shuts me out at my house, not a big deal, except my 30 day return will be LONG over by then.  

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Addendum- I suddenly lost signal again last night. I was connected to a Samsung tablet. There were no warnings. No other abnormalities- just no sound. Was able to navigate to other presets no problem except for I could not get sound from any preset. 

 

Reboot remedied the situation. Worked fine after. 

 

I plan on using the Firehawk in two shows this week. 

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Happened again. Looks like the expression pedal assignment becomes corrupted and reassigns volume to the outboard expression pedal (an EX-1 in this case) . This seems to mute all patch volumes until actuated.

I had an episode of unwanted reassignment of expression pedal control before, during a show.

The band is still not cool with this.

Possibly there's an issue with the EX-1?

Anyone else have similar issues?

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Returned mine because of this and lag issue, totally unacceptable  :(

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Similar, but with me what happens is after the update & after 2 hours of successful programming, if I press ANY button to change a program, the unit goes dead with the 'A' & 'D' lights a steady red.  Being a previous X3 user, all this started happening when I tried to save a user preset from one bank to another with a slight change.  Once I saved it (manually), it was there, but press to use it, unit goes dead/blank, 'A' & 'D' lights burn steady.  I've got a support ticket into line6, & it's going back to Sweetwater 1st of the week.  I don't think it's a Bluetooth problem as it will act up directly from the hardware without Bluetooth.

Yep, frustrating for sure.  

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Similar, but with me what happens is after the update & after 2 hours of successful programming, if I press ANY button to change a program, the unit goes dead with the 'A' & 'D' lights a steady red.  Being a previous X3 user, all this started happening when I tried to save a user preset from one bank to another with a slight change.  Once I saved it (manually), it was there, but press to use it, unit goes dead/blank, 'A' & 'D' lights burn steady.  I've got a support ticket into line6, & it's going back to Sweetwater 1st of the week.  I don't think it's a Bluetooth problem as it will act up directly from the hardware without Bluetooth.

Yep, frustrating for sure.

 

I had the exact same problem- it was caused by a patch I downloaded from the cloud. Just figure out what patch you are running when it goes into the A/D lights of death, delete that patch and you are good to go. Here is what my problem looked like:

 

 

 

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Woah!  1st off, I MUCH APPRECIATE you recording that & posting on YouTube.  A tip of the ball cap to you on that.

 

You had a much worse problem than I in that your unit screams bloody murder when it goes down.  Mine just goes lifeless, not that that's any better.  Wrong is wrong whether it screams or says nothing.

 

Since I saw your reply 1st before anyone else (line6 or Sweetwater), here's the way I went:  Because I managed to save my tones to the app, what I did was a factory reset, then I put my tones back on the banks/buttons I wanted (saved to the hardware).  From that point, I was going from bank to bank fine, then it went "A/D lights of death" on me twice after restarts (unit off/on).  Thing is, seemed like the unit was getting progressively better on each restart to the last time where I was hammering the buttons rather aggressively, & it didn't flinch.  So when I last turned off the unit, it was working correctly.

 

That's not to say it's out of the woods.  I'm going to try a test where my phone's off & see if it'll handle some quick changes, whether or not a "bad patch" still exists or that the hardware likes what's in it so far.

 

I'll keep everyone posted.

 

MUCH THANKS, bond 19.

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the bad patch I had suspected was "she ain't pretty" uploaded by waynerb.

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Maybe we could ask Wayne to rename it to "she ain't firehawk compliant"?

Don't think that will happen as Wayne created the patch on an amplifi unit, and will probably not go out and buy a firehawk so we can use his patch that was not really very good in the first place. This does bring up the point- are patches created on amplifi fully compatible with firehawk- I say no.

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If we pooled a list of problematic patches we could probably narrow it down to a certain amp or cab that was used in the patch, maybe it's an effect or something that isn't featured on firehawk so it throws a wobble?

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Yes, or just a setting within one of the effects/amps

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Hey guys: 

 

I've done NOTHING concerning downloading.  The problem is happening to me on USER presets.  Making my own, change banks, it tanks.

 

Maybe down the road as the concept is great & fantastic when it's working.  Otherwise, totally unacceptable in any situation.

 

Firehawk's flyin' back to the dealer.  :-(

 

Thankew again, bond 19.

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.... The problem is happening to me on USER presets. Making my own, change banks, it tanks.

 

....

That is certainly not normal. Since you were attracted to Firehawk in the first place, I wouldn't give up on it just yet. I would try reinstalling the firmware first, and if the problem persists I would pursue the support ticket with Line 6. You may simply have a defective unit. It happens. If so Line 6 will resolve this for you.

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That is certainly not normal. Since you were attracted to Firehawk in the first place, I wouldn't give up on it just yet. I would try reinstalling the firmware first, and if the problem persists I would pursue the support ticket with Line 6. You may simply have a defective unit. It happens. If so Line 6 will resolve this for you.

I agree Silverhead, I have had problems with mine as well, but am sticking it out. For sure, there will be bugs with everything that is cutting edge, but the cool thing is that because line 6 is a company that actually welcomes input from it's users, and takes that input and tries to incorporate the ideas into the product, I am confident that in a little while, I will have mine set up how I need it to be.

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I hate to be "that guy", but, aside from the lag issue, mine is working just fine.  I have the 1.1 firmware in it, probably over 50 hours since it shut down on me last (that was on 1.01 firmware if that makes a difference).  Maybe I got one of the good ones from the factory or what, I don't know.  

 

Fix the lag and add a better way (PC) of moving, storing and saving tones, this thing is gold to me.  Sound is great!  Everything I have tried has worked just fine.  So, in my mind, the concept and design is solid, just maybe some cheap components internally, maybe something in the way the sounds come together in the tone setup causes crashes.  I mean with this is, "YES, it's Line 6's problem", but maybe it's something that needs to be re-thought out in the firmware or maybe better constraints in the tweaks.

 

I'm an industrial machine designer and programmer, so I can see how the operator would find issues that would really mess things up.  Just need to do a better job in the underlining program to make it more stable.

 

It's getting tough right now, I only have 7 days left to return it or ask them for an extension.

 

oh, I forgot, I have used all the USER preset location, then just nuked the first 25 or so for custom sounds.  I have downloaded a couple that made that squeal sound, but it didn't lock up the unit.

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Second update- played a show using the 'Hawk ( v 1.01) with an outboard expression pedal (EX-1). Had three episodes of sudden loss of output in three hours- one at sound check, two during show. I was very heavy on the good ol'  "tap-dance"- frequently changing effects, patches (sometimes three per song), lots of volume swells and parameter control using both pedal controls. I must say that the latency/ delay in patch changes was decent. 

 

Never had the A/D lights of death. The only display quirk is isolated loss of the master volume LED's or loss of all LED's. All patches involved were downloaded or built from scratch. Fortunately, I never lost output in the middle of a solo. In every instance, I quickly re-booted , then navigated back to the user banks and got back to business . I learned that the master volume ( big knob, red lights) reset to a lower level each reboot ( which is better than screaming loud!). 

 

Despite these sudden failures, I'm getting good sound and good control. I concede I wouldn't want to lose output in the middle of a solo or in a three-piece band. I'm a die-hard Line 6 user and will probably continue to use the 'Hawk. 

 

Judging from the feedback (har har) , it seems that there is more than one specific corruption (error, bug, code issue) .

 

Line 6 , what say ye? 

 

Cheers 

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Well, I'm out for now.  Firehawk's flyin' back for a refund.

 

I do intend to revisit it at a later date.

 

The concept is terrific, & when it was working right, excellent.  And because I have 2 X3's as my main pedalboards, I'm definitely not closed to a revisit.

 

Though I'm aware that I can turn factory presets into user presets, it still needs more room for user presets, & delay times need to be buttoned down tighter as can be done with the X3 & the HD500 & X.

 

Thing is, where I'm coming from, though others can afford to do workarounds & reinstalls, I can't.  Leaving that there.

 

I do hope line6 will GET ON IT for Uall.

 

Peace……OUT.

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I totally understand, I think that as I have a few weeks between gigs, I will try to put some time into making my patches smarter to work around the existing problems I have been having with the unit- I like the tones I am getting out of it, especially with the JTV-59 hooked in. Later Ovaltine

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Hey all. Sorry to see you run into trouble. On the surface, it seems to be bad patches causing some of your problems. We removed the bad patch bond19 was using from the cloud. I just got my hands on a Firehawk that a customer sent in because some of his user patches produced "Load error -21". I reset it then updated it and the problem was resolved, as I did not reload his patches. I'd suggest doing the same, then reloading your user patches one-by-one to find bad patches.

 

I also encourage anyone finding a bad patch they got from the cloud to PM me so we can remove it. Even if you make one from scratch and find it to be bad, I'd want you to send it to me so we can try to find out the root cause of the corruption.

 

@jkuche...PM me if the reset/bad patch search doesn't work for you.

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Sounds good to me- thanks for looking into this.

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Thanks for the support , Line6Tony.

 

Played a 3 hour acoustic show last night ( three guitars, one double bass) with no failures and great control of effects. In between songs, I whipped up a ridiculous patch to play the slide part on Breathe (Pink Floyd) ( yes, three acoustics and an upright bass) . I used two sequential delays , 'verb, volume swells, a slide, and voila - perfect delay and ambient effect ! Tweaked it to perfection as I played, using the tablet right at my side. 

 

I find the level of creative control is worth the failures I've reported. Fortunately, I haven't lost output in the middle of any serious solo, and Line 6 support has been reliable over the years, so I'm going to continue to work the 'Hawk.

 

Going to flash up to 1.10 and head back to the stage this weekend.  Keep you posted. 

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I have just started to use my firehawk again, as I want to see how it is sounding with my Roland KC350 amp and JTV-59, what do you know, I got the A/D lights of death again, this is with the firmware update 1.10. This is really bugging me, as it happened while I was on one of the stock patches - 29A. I had to do a system restore yet again. If this issue does not have a fix with explanation on why it is happening, I do not have confidence in it enough to want to use it in a live situation. The lag, coupled with bad stomp button geometry, and this ongoing freeze up - is making me an un-believer. Right now it is a novelty item, which I compare to a child's toy.

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Well, FWIW I'm much appreciative of you being the 1st (that I know of) to post the issue on YT. Believe me, I VERY WELL know how you feel & am sorry you're going thru this.

 

I know they're looking into the matter, but in the real world, if something you're trying to rely on causes something as serious as you LOSING WORK, sorry, but that's unacceptable.

 

Truth is, I'm a little more disappointed in the fact that they couldn't get the "app editing" to fly.  And though I'm about as "user" as it gets, I honestly think there's a confusion between editing/saving with the Firehawk buttons & editing/saving with the app (Bluetooth) at the same time which was how I was using it when things went south.  

 

Yeah, I'll likely get in line for Helix since it's more akin to the X3's & HD500's & X's, but for now, I stick with my trusty X3's.  I think the "answer" is going to be the ability to edit parameters with your feet, which makes most sense, though the app editing was finding its place in me until the unit (Firehawk) kept tanking.

 

If I can be of some encouragement, I see you use a JTV-59.  I'd never desired to jump on the Variax bandwagon from the get go until 3 days ago when one of my students brought in a new, black Variax Standard.  SOLID AS A ROCK.  Loved it! I rode it fairly hard & came away impressed with sound/playability/construction both the electronics & the guitar itself.  Just might have to do one of those down the pike.

 

Again, I'm so sorry that you got caught in that, & I do hope they can get app editing & button editing to be friends which again IMO is a major problem if not "the" problem.  Meantime, we gotta do what we gotta do.  :-/

 

Hope your trails get smoother/happier, bond19.

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The A/D lights of death has happened to others and is documented on this forum.  You are right about the Variax- mine is a joy to play, and I am glad I got it.  But back to the Firehawk- As I have money invested in it, and cannot return it, I am trying to find ways/workarounds which will enable me to use it in a live situation- be it, adding extra stomp boxes into the effects loop chain, or more thought process in patch creation.  I am hoping the lock up can be narrowed down, and the source revealed, so if it cannot be fixed, at least it can be avoided. But for the time being, I will have to use my GT-10 live, as I have done for the past 4 years.

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Update, and good news...  after flashing up to v 1.10, I have had no further sudden loss of output in roughly 20 hours of use. I can't say for sure whether the update fixed the issue or not , but it's the only variable that has been changed. If it reoccurs, I will post. 

 

I suspect my issue, and reports of similar issues, may be related to software and/or hardware problems with individual units and not with the Firehawk product (sku). Time will tell.  

 

As far as lag time/ delay in changing presets, it's not a problem for me. Perhaps this is because I change in the midst of a song with several other instruments covering any momentary gaps or maybe I anticipate a lag and tap early.

 

I'd like to thank Line 6 for maintaining extensive forums, support, and community involvement , even when taking it on the chin from occasional sharp ( ie- rude) comments. I'm still all in.  

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I had loss of output today while programming patches, which required a restart. It happened while I was assigning the delay mix to the pedal. I am running firmware 1.10

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Thanks for the post, bond19. This kind of feedback seems invaluable to fixing whatever it is that's going on, and helps me stay tuned.

 

I hope everyone is reporting, and as courteously as possible. 

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Firehawk lost sound twice last night- you could switch patches banks and effects but absolutely no sound, needed to restart both times- this is not practical.

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If I were you I'd seriously consider getting a new unit under the guarantee, I know others have had this problem but you seem to be getting it much more often than others

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bond19, are you using any user made patches? If so, can you send them to me? How you do that depends on if you're using Android or iOS. Android has many more sharing options. Please PM me and let me know. I want to try to recreate this output loss you're experiencing.

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Just a reminder for others - I suggest check the state of the rear "OUTPUT MODE SWITCH"

 

If this Switch is in the "AMP" position you get a complete loss of Guitar signal from both the XLR and Headphone Outputs 

preview.jpg

  • Upvote 1

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bond19, are you using any user made patches? If so, can you send them to me? How you do that depends on if you're using Android or iOS. Android has many more sharing options. Please PM me and let me know. I want to try to recreate this output loss you're experiencing.

I will PM.

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