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JTV and HD500X


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I've been struggling with my 500x - tones sounding thin and flat and generally bad.  I thought it was a function of my inadequate understanding of the 500x.  I've been using the 500x with my JTV69 and 89F.  Today I plugged in with my analog guitar and my tones sounded great!!!

 

So please, if anyone can help, please chime in.

 

When I force the 500x to control JTV model and tuning, should the selector switch on the Variax be set to "Model"?

 

When using HD Edit, in the drop down menu for the various JTV model, I see the models listed twice; once with a prefix "F" and another with the prefix "U".  I'm assuming the F is the factory model and the U is the user model I've actually loaded on the guitar via Workbench.  Is this correct?

 

Thanks...

 

Floyd

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I keep trying to find the love for my HD500 (most recently over the weekend after buying the new model packs), but the amplifier modeling simply doesn't cut it for me.  Even with careful use of the parametric EQ to notch out the truly obnoxious "fizz", it lacks any semblance of warmth.   Every couple of months I go round-robin on the HD500, Roland GR-55 and Fender Mustang III.  The Fender always wins in terms of realistic tube-amp modeling.

 

I've heard other players get great sounds from the HD500/500X, but even starting with tweaked models from Glenn DeLaune, it doesn't seem to suit my playing style.  Obviously YMMV.

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I've been struggling with my 500x - tones sounding thin and flat and generally bad.  I thought it was a function of my inadequate understanding of the 500x.  I've been using the 500x with my JTV69 and 89F.  Today I plugged in with my analog guitar and my tones sounded great!!!

 

So please, if anyone can help, please chime in.

 

When I force the 500x to control JTV model and tuning, should the selector switch on the Variax be set to "Model"?

 

When using HD Edit, in the drop down menu for the various JTV model, I see the models listed twice; once with a prefix "F" and another with the prefix "U".  I'm assuming the F is the factory model and the U is the user model I've actually loaded on the guitar via Workbench.  Is this correct?

 

Thanks...

 

Floyd

 

Yes the alt tuning knob should be set to MODEL when using the 500x to force model and tuning when changing patch.

 

"F" does mean factory preset and "U" does mean user. So you are correct.

 

I agree it is easier to get a great tone using a standard guitar into the 500x. 

Using a JTV via VDI means everything is digital right up to the point the 500x converts it back to analog before the XLR or 1/4" outs.

The JTVs have their own numerous nuances to get just right and although every JTV has the same digital electronics they don't all sound identical because the physical characteristics of each guitar and each play also has a major effect on how they sound.

 

I suggest you try various connection methods and compare them to see if any are better. Also compare the JTV model with the standard guitar - see how they differ and then see if you can use Workbench HD to create your own custom model that more closely reflects the sound of the standard guitar with which you get a great tone easily out of the 500x.  Also try the JTV using it's battery power going direct into a standard amp and compare each of the models - does it sound better and more realistic just like a standard guitar that way - or does it still sound thin and lacking?

 

Unfortunately with the JTV / 500x combination - you have to master the JTV as well as master the 500x - way more things that can go wrong and cause things to sound bad if not set up or tweaked correctly. 

 

Good luck - you should be able to get your JTVs sounding very similar to how your standard guitar sounds when using the 500x - just may take some time and patience to get there.       

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Edstar -- I'm curious.... I thought we lost the "F" and "U" options a few firmware versions ago. My 500X FW 2.62 & 2 JTV's 59 & 69S FW 2.21 only shows "U:" and the model names, except for "Custom 1:" and "Custom 2:" banks.... I thought that was a casualty of the HD modeling upgrades.... I rolled through all of the models using the parameter knob #2 in the Variax control on the 500X, never got to any "F:" models. It would be cool to have that back, but think it's gone.... Am I missing some other setting somewhere?

 

I just looked in my POD HD500X Edit - most recent version 2.26, and at the Variax controls there as well. The JTV listings do not have the User and Factory listings, but the first generation Variax 300/500 600/700 and the other first gen Variaxes do still have the U/F options. I'm wondering if the OP has chosen model setting from the first gen Variax pull down menu, and is confusing his JTV's with control first gen Vax signals it doesn't read correctly anymore. Seems we lost that U/F option at about the 1.8 FW for the JTV, or so. Wonder if this a root cause of his problems?

 

It seems to me if the OP is using the 1.7x JTV FW, he wouldn't be able to use the latest HD WB or HD 500X Edit versions - they kind of go hand in hand. There is nothing to keep you from selecting the pull downs for the older VAX's even with a JTV hooked up. I still have my old 300, so it's nice to know I could have double the number of models on that. I'd have to download and reload it's Workbench version though to make use of it.... Wouldn't be able to do that with my 500X, but my backup 500 would work with it.

 

Or I may be missing something fairly basic, here....

 

Dave

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Dave,

 

Just wanted to weigh in.  I'm running HD Edit 2.26 and FW 2.21 on my JTVs.  I'm running Mac OS X Yosemite.  

 

In the drop down menu for the Variax controls, I'm selecting JTV.  I did misspeak in my early post - there are the list of models with the F prefix (except Custom 1 and Custom 2), along with a duplicate listing without the F prefix.  The F models are the factory models, while the models without the F are the ones live loaded via WB.  

 

Setting the selector switch to "Model" does seem to improve the quality of the tone.  Tomorrow, I'll try using a standard 1/4 inch cable and the inboard battery.  I'm hoping I'll work out the nuances of the VDI - it'd be pretty cool to tap a toe a go from a Satch tone (assuming I can cook on up), an EVH tone, a SRV tone, etc

 

I appreciate everybody's help.

 

Floyd

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Edstar -- I'm curious.... I thought we lost the "F" and "U" options a few firmware versions ago. My 500X FW 2.62 & 2 JTV's 59 & 69S FW 2.21 only shows "U:" and the model names, except for "Custom 1:" and "Custom 2:" banks.... I thought that was a casualty of the HD modeling upgrades.... I rolled through all of the models using the parameter knob #2 in the Variax control on the 500X, never got to any "F:" models. It would be cool to have that back, but think it's gone.... Am I missing some other setting somewhere?

 

I just looked in my POD HD500X Edit - most recent version 2.26, and at the Variax controls there as well. The JTV listings do not have the User and Factory listings, but the first generation Variax 300/500 600/700 and the other first gen Variaxes do still have the U/F options. I'm wondering if the OP has chosen model setting from the first gen Variax pull down menu, and is confusing his JTV's with control first gen Vax signals it doesn't read correctly anymore. Seems we lost that U/F option at about the 1.8 FW for the JTV, or so. Wonder if this a root cause of his problems?

 

 

Τhe user and factory apply to the previous gen. variax, or firmware bellow 2.0

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Edstar -- I'm curious.... I thought we lost the "F" and "U" options a few firmware versions ago. My 500X FW 2.62 & 2 JTV's 59 & 69S FW 2.21 only shows "U:" and the model names, except for "Custom 1:" and "Custom 2:" banks.... I thought that was a casualty of the HD modeling upgrades.... I rolled through all of the models using the parameter knob #2 in the Variax control on the 500X, never got to any "F:" models. It would be cool to have that back, but think it's gone.... Am I missing some other setting somewhere?

 

I just looked in my POD HD500X Edit - most recent version 2.26, and at the Variax controls there as well. The JTV listings do not have the User and Factory listings, but the first generation Variax 300/500 600/700 and the other first gen Variaxes do still have the U/F options. I'm wondering if the OP has chosen model setting from the first gen Variax pull down menu, and is confusing his JTV's with control first gen Vax signals it doesn't read correctly anymore. Seems we lost that U/F option at about the 1.8 FW for the JTV, or so. Wonder if this a root cause of his problems?

 

It seems to me if the OP is using the 1.7x JTV FW, he wouldn't be able to use the latest HD WB or HD 500X Edit versions - they kind of go hand in hand. There is nothing to keep you from selecting the pull downs for the older VAX's even with a JTV hooked up. I still have my old 300, so it's nice to know I could have double the number of models on that. I'd have to download and reload it's Workbench version though to make use of it.... Wouldn't be able to do that with my 500X, but my backup 500 would work with it.

 

Or I may be missing something fairly basic, here....

 

Dave

 

Hi Dave,

 

You are correct.

 

I just double checked with HD 500 Edit in offline mode and if you choose 300/600 500/700 Variax pull down then you get the choice of F prefixed models or non-prefixed models (double the choice).  If you select Tyler Variax then you get a choice of U prefixed models only.

 

However, at the weekend I was setting up patches on my HD500 with my JTV59 connected (all at latest fw levels) and used HD 500 EDIT (latest version) to set up the patches and I went through and double checked the Variax control settings of a number of patches and although I had TYLER VARIAX selected in the drop down, I was still being shown the list of F prefixed and non prefixed models.   I didn't think about it at the time that the F models were only available with the pre-HD firmware versions so I just accepted that was what was available under HD Edit.   So maybe I hit a bug and didn't realise as everything seemed to work fine.   I will see if I can recreate the situation today, because when using it in OFFLINE mode, there are definitely different model choices presented, and the F prefix ones don't show for TYLER.

 

EDIT:

 

OK - just tried it again and it is working as expected - no sign of F models when selecting TYLER VARIAX.  Only see the U models.  When selecting 300/600 500/700 then the F models appear along with non-prefixed models.   Which means at the weekend , either I hit a glitch which has now fixed itself or I got myself confused and was looking at the wrong drop down menus.  I had tried dragging and dropping some HD500X patches into my HD 500 EDIT window which seemed to work fine - they were converted OK - but maybe that caused the glitch in the display as I remember one of them had the 300/600 500/700 Variax selected and I had to change it to Tyler Variax.   Anyway - bottom line is I can't recreate the situation - so everything is working as Dave described.

Edited by edstar1960
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I'm still having the glitch.  In off-line mode, I see only the U-prefix models when TYLER VARIAX is selected.  In on-line mode, I see both F-prefixed models and models without any prefix.  Custom 1 and Custom 2 bank are free of any prefix is both scenarios.

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I'm still having the glitch.  In off-line mode, I see only the U-prefix models when TYLER VARIAX is selected.  In on-line mode, I see both F-prefixed models and models without any prefix.  Custom 1 and Custom 2 bank are free of any prefix is both scenarios.

 

Very interesting.  So it wasn't me going mad at the weekend - it really did show the wrong list of model choices. 

If you power everything off and then back on again does the same glitch remain?  If you can consistently recreate it then please raise a ticket with Line 6 support and report it to them so they can work on a fix.    Thanks!    

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Powered everything up again and no glitch.  In the drop down menu, there was only the U list of models.  Will try it again tomorrow.

 

More interestingly, setting the selector switch to MODEL really makes a difference in quality of tone - so that is good!

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Powered everything up again and no glitch.  In the drop down menu, there was only the U list of models.  Will try it again tomorrow.

 

More interestingly, setting the selector switch to MODEL really makes a difference in quality of tone - so that is good!

 

Ah! So something that you and I did with our HD EDIT sessions on our PC's somehow produced the glitch.   Good news that it has now fixed itself but perhaps a little worrying that it may re-appear and we don't know what has caused it.

 

Interesting that you say the tone quality has improved by using MODEL setting on the alt-tune knob.   That is the correct setting to use if you are not using the guitar control to produce an alternate tuning but it should not affect tone from what I understand.   What did you have it set on before?  I am guessing it must have been set to STANDARD because all the others are some form of altered tuning.   I may have to try that to see if it does affect the end tone for me as well.  My understanding is that STANDARD is used to force the guitar to play in standard tuning regardless of what tuning the loaded model may be set to, so perhaps it is doing a double process of the model unnecessarily and that extra processing is affecting the tone quality?  Just guessing.  When I get a moment I will see what difference it makes on my JTV via VDI.

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hd500 edit reads labels from file PODX4Edit.lang, located in the programms_file directory.

u can change the labels displayed by simply editing this file.

so if u wanna change the jtv model labels, go 2 the <!---Variax Electric ---> section 'n edit accordingly.

if u have developed custom jtv patches with custom names, this is the place where u can force hd500 edit 2 read ur own specific custom names.

ATTENTION !!!! DO NOT TOUCH THE ID's, cause u will encounter problems.

 

sample of variax labels attached:

<L6StringEntry ID="veT1" eng="F-T-Model-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veT2" eng="F-T-Model-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veT3" eng="F-T-Model-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veT4" eng="F-T-Model-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veT5" eng="F-T-Model-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veS1" eng="F-Spank-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veS2" eng="F-Spank-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veS3" eng="F-Spank-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veS4" eng="F-Spank-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veS5" eng="F-Spank-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veL1" eng="F-Lester-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veL2" eng="F-Lester-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veL3" eng="F-Lester-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veL4" eng="F-Lester-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veL5" eng="F-Lester-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veP1" eng="F-Special-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veP2" eng="F-Special-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veP3" eng="F-Special-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veP4" eng="F-Special-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veP5" eng="F-Special-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veB1" eng="F-R-Billy-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veB2" eng="F-R-Billy-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veB3" eng="F-R-Billy-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veB4" eng="F-R-Billy-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veB5" eng="F-R-Billy-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veM1" eng="F-Chime-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veM2" eng="F-Chime-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veM3" eng="F-Chime-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veM4" eng="F-Chime-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veM5" eng="F-Chime-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veI1" eng="F-Semi-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veI2" eng="F-Semi-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veI3" eng="F-Semi-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veI4" eng="F-Semi-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veI5" eng="F-Semi-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veJ1" eng="F-Jazzbox-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veJ2" eng="F-Jazzbox-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veJ3" eng="F-Jazzbox-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veJ4" eng="F-Jazzbox-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veJ5" eng="F-Jazzbox-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veA1" eng="F-Acoustic-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veA2" eng="F-Acoustic-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veA3" eng="F-Acoustic-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veA4" eng="F-Acoustic-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veA5" eng="F-Acoustic-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veR1" eng="F-Reso-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veR2" eng="F-Reso-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veR3" eng="F-Reso-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veR4" eng="F-Reso-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="veR5" eng="F-Reso-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuT1" eng="U:T-Model-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuT2" eng="U:T-Model-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuT3" eng="U:T-Model-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuT4" eng="U:T-Model-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuT5" eng="U:T-Model-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuS1" eng="U:Spank-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuS2" eng="U:Spank-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuS3" eng="U:Spank-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuS4" eng="U:Spank-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuS5" eng="U:Spank-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuL1" eng="U:Lester-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuL2" eng="U:Lester-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuL3" eng="U:Lester-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuL4" eng="U:Lester-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuL5" eng="U:Lester-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuP1" eng="U:Special-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuP2" eng="U:Special-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuP3" eng="U:Special-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuP4" eng="U:Special-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuP5" eng="U:Special-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuB1" eng="U:R-Billy-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuB2" eng="U:R-Billy-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuB3" eng="U:R-Billy-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuB4" eng="U:R-Billy-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuB5" eng="U:R-Billy-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuM1" eng="U:Chime-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuM2" eng="U:Chime-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuM3" eng="U:Chime-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuM4" eng="U:Chime-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuM5" eng="U:Chime-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuI1" eng="U:Semi-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuI2" eng="U:Semi-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuI3" eng="U:Semi-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuI4" eng="U:Semi-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuI5" eng="U:Semi-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuJ1" eng="U:Jazzbox-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuJ2" eng="U:Jazzbox-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuJ3" eng="U:Jazzbox-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuJ4" eng="U:Jazzbox-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuJ5" eng="U:Jazzbox-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuA1" eng="U:Acoustic-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuA2" eng="U:Acoustic-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuA3" eng="U:Acoustic-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuA4" eng="U:Acoustic-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuA5" eng="U:Acoustic-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuR1" eng="U:Reso-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuR2" eng="U:Reso-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuR3" eng="U:Reso-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuR4" eng="U:Reso-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vuR5" eng="U:Reso-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vec1" eng="Custom 2-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vec2" eng="Custom 2-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vec3" eng="Custom 2-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vec4" eng="Custom 2-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="vec5" eng="Custom 2-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueT1" eng="T-Model-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueT2" eng="T-Model-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueT3" eng="T-Model-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueT4" eng="T-Model-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueT5" eng="T-Model-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueS1" eng="Spank-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueS2" eng="Spank-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueS3" eng="Spank-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueS4" eng="Spank-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueS5" eng="Spank-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueL1" eng="Lester-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueL2" eng="Lester-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueL3" eng="Lester-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueL4" eng="Lester-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueL5" eng="Lester-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueP1" eng="Special-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueP2" eng="Special-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueP3" eng="Special-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueP4" eng="Special-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueP5" eng="Special-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueB1" eng="R-Billy-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueB2" eng="R-Billy-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueB3" eng="R-Billy-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueB4" eng="R-Billy-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueB5" eng="R-Billy-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueM1" eng="Chime-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueM2" eng="Chime-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueM3" eng="Chime-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueM4" eng="Chime-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueM5" eng="Chime-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueI1" eng="Semi-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueI2" eng="Semi-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueI3" eng="Semi-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueI4" eng="Semi-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueI5" eng="Semi-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueJ1" eng="Jazzbox-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueJ2" eng="Jazzbox-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueJ3" eng="Jazzbox-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueJ4" eng="Jazzbox-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueJ5" eng="Jazzbox-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueA1" eng="Acoustic-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueA2" eng="Acoustic-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueA3" eng="Acoustic-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueA4" eng="Acoustic-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueA5" eng="Acoustic-5"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueR1" eng="Reso-1"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueR2" eng="Reso-2"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueR3" eng="Reso-3"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueR4" eng="Reso-4"/>

<L6StringEntry ID="ueR5" eng="Reso-5"/>

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snhirsch, what type of sounds are you trying to emulate?  I use both a JTV59 and JTV89F and have been very happy with the tones I am getting.  The 59 gets used for my 80s cover band while the 89F gets used for an original prog band for both live and recordings.  I use the 59 with a wireless setup and the 89F with a VDI (Needed to since I change guitars up to 5 times within some songs)

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I have a JTV69, but the guitar is not the issue.  Regardless of the guitar, the HD500 just doesn't do a very good job of emulating a tube amplifier.  Out of all the gear I have here, the Fender Mustang III.v2 provides far and away the most accurate modeling. 

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