Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
edstar1960

HD500 GUITAR-IN-Z JTV VDI no equivalent function

Recommended Posts

I tried to set up my JTV TMOD-5 (neck pickup) model to be similar to my Fender 60's Player Tele neck pickup.

I had my JTV connected to my HD500 with VDI and my Tele connected via 1/4" Guitar In.  The HD500 connected to my PC via USB and Windows HD running.  I had L mono out going to a mixing desk connected to a reference amp connected to Tannoy Reveal monitors.

 

I just wanted to get the model strings balanced and sounding similar to the real thing - I didn't think I could get them to sound identical, just similar. So I was just using the same CLEAN sounding amp model patch in the HD500 for the comparison.  Both guitars had Volume and Tone controls on Max.

 

First off, I was surprised by how different they both sounded - the Fender Tele with rich warm notes on the 3 low strings and treble attack on the high strings but the JTV model just had high treble attack across all strings.

 

So I looked at the GUITAR-IN-Z setting and it was set to AUTO.  So I tried removing the fx blocks before the amp in the patch and when I was left just with the amp, I was getting a brighter sound but still nowhere near as bright as the JTV model.  So I tried manually setting the GUITAR-IN-Z value and even with it on the highest level of 3.5M the Fender Tele did not sound quite as bright as the JTV model. It was getting closer but still far enough apart to easily be able to tell the difference.

 

Nothing more I could do to adjust the Fender Tele tone, so I looked at options for the JTV model, and the only things available in Workbench HD are the Volume pot resistance value and the Tone pot resistance and knob position.  As I always have my Tone on max, the Tone pot value was not going to be of any use, unless I decided to save a lower Tone knob position with the model.

 

This prompted me to ask "why can't I set the input impedance for the Variax VDI just like I can with the Guitar In?".  Surely that would be the best option?  But it's not available.   

 

So the next question "why is it not available?".  My testing with the GUITAR-IN-Z showed that those changes made a big difference to the tonal input of the guitar.   Surely we should be able to do the same with the JTV?  Or if not, then surely the JTV models should be very similar to the equivalent standard guitar models without any need to tweak - but they are not - they are much brighter and full of high end - well the Tele Neck pickup model certainly is.

 

So - I could go into Workbench and spend some time experimenting with the different volume pot values to see if I could match the tonal qualities of the model with the real thing, or I could experiment with the tone pot values and setting of the knob position to achieve a similar tonal quality.  But these options seem way over the top and time consuming and unnecessary when the Variax models should have the input impedance modelled in some way already or at the very lest they should respond like the AUTO setting does for Guitar In and match chosen fx or amp, but they don't.  They don't appear to have any modelled tonal attenuation due to "lead length" or "Input impedance" - they seem to be constant with no high end attenuation occurring as with a real guitar/pickup/lead combination.

 

Does anyone know why the VDI implementation does not allow for any impedance matching like Guitar-In-z ?

 

Does anyone have any suggested values for volume and/or tone pots that I could try in Workbench HD to make the JTV Tmod-5 model behave tonally like a real Fender Tele neck pick up in terms of attenuated high end?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for sharing the guide.  I have seen that before but unfortunately it doesn't talk about how to reproduce in WB the resistance due to cable type and length which the guide says affects the pickup sound "... much more than you may think".   It also doesn't discuss what happens when a Variax is connected via VDI to an HD500 and how to adjust models to cater for that digital link.  But it does have lots of useful stuff about how to manipulate pickups and pot values to produce fatter and thinner sounds etc ... so I will revisit that and see if I can tweak my Tmod-5 model to be more like a real Tele neck pick up sound.

 

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember too that the variax guitars and pickups are specific models, it might be a bit difficult, unless they managed to model the specific guitar your are trying to match. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember too that the variax guitars and pickups are specific models, it might be a bit difficult, unless they managed to model the specific guitar your are trying to match. 

 

Yes I know.  And as I mentioned in my first post I tried to make it sound "similar" - I never thought they could ever be identical because they modelled a classic Tele and I have a modern made Tele which is a 60's player series - so my Tele is intended to sound similar to a 60's Tele so they should be similar but not the same.  However, as described above, I found they were so far apart that the only thing left to do is to try to swap volume/tone pot values because I can't reproduce the GUITAR-IN-Z effect with the VDI connection.    I will try using the model via the 1/4" connection so it is then processed the same way as the real guitar but I need to get my JTV battery charged up to be able to do that first  .... but I need to do it to narrow down where the tweaks need to be made.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a quick update on this.

 

I have recently changed strings on my JTV59 and while doing so decided to implement the suggestions from katiekerry and clayman about wrapping the string tails in tape and putting a strip of velcro on the bridge behind the sddles at the top of the grooves.

 

This has greatly reduced, if not eliminated, the metallic overtones and high end bias when using the models.  I have not had time yet to compare them again with the real thing but I certainly think it is a step in the right direction and so I need to go back into WB HD and re-tweak my models to cater for the new improved tonal characteristics of my JTV59.     Maybe I won't need to worry about the lack of GUITAR-IN-Z  at all and will be able to get close enough sounds from existing parameters. 

 

And I would recommend that anyone with a JTV59 try using a velcro strip behind the saddles, and wrapping the string tails in tape - it makes a big improvement in how the modelled guitars sound by eliminating unecessary resonances from the Tyler one-piece bridge/tailpiece..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×