Old Timers Advice

[stevevnicks]

well im guessing the regular forum users will know by now i am a self admitted Cra! guitar player (amd bad speller among other things) infact now i think about it i cant think off the top of me head anything i am good at, im rubbish at sport etc, back in my childhood days in the late 70's i was even ultra crap at BMX when it first came to our council estate (always coming off and hurting myself) well just on a bike i was a total disaster, even got knocked over by a car ! my own fault though as i was on the wrong side of the road going around a blind bend, ended up having a head on with a car that was just then driving away from there home, (in my defence i was racing my next door neighbour on my raleigh chopper, stuck in 3rd gear, toggle chain had snapped so those in the know will know what i mean) still all was good as when i got out of hospital my parents paid for the the damage to the car.

 

anyway now im trying to learn how to play the guitar (surly i cant hurt myself using a guitar ? so this has to be a safe hobby for me) i have noticed some times if i try and practice everyday i kind of get stuck in playing the same old rhythm and its almost like im stuck in a infinate loop lol

but if i leave my guitar a couple maybe a few days then start playing around with it i get better and play different .. this is not the first time i have noticed this ..

 

i was just wondering how it was for you ? or other people out there teaching them selfs to play for fun not pro, i have friends show me cords and i teach myself there after ...

 

 

[taylorbeats]

Stagnation is an easy thing to fall into, there are even days where I don't even feel like I have my C game let alone an A game.  Best to step away for a day or two just to refresh the neurons etc.  If you do find you are in a short term rut (sometimes I can't even stand listening to myself, what was i thinking...), switch to another genre-jazz, ragtime, banjo, mandolin.  Very refreshing and thought provoking to switch instruments up, learn an entirely new song on a different instrument-play the electric piano part of "No Quarter" on guitar, or learn the actually keyboard part.  It really helps!

[cruisinon2]

 

 

(surly i cant hurt myself using a guitar ? so this has to be a safe hobby for me)

 

Oh yes you can :P ...repetitive strain injuries like carpal tunnel syndrome and elbow tendonitis top the list. Torn calluses are my personal favorite...couldn't tell you how many times over the years I've crazy-glued a finger back together to finish a gig. Then once you rip one, you basically have to stop playing for a couple of weeks if you want it to heal (this is basically impossible if you work a lot).

[Palico]

Practicing the same things over and over rarely produce results for me. I have to mix it up. Some days I will got to completey differnet sytles of music, even ones I have not intention of performing live. Why just to change it up. Years ago I was lucky enough to catch a question and answer question with Steve Morse at local guitar store thing. Most people asked about gear or then industry, but the question I asked was simple "How do you get out of rut in your playing?". His answer hit me a profound way, even thought it was stupid simple. "Play something else, go in a different direction than what you have been doing."  Simple but true. If you in a ditch you can continue down the ditch or step out of it. But you contine on the same line you will stay in the ditch. So play something else. I also found working with other syle helps me define my own style. Becuase I can't help but to start incorparting little things from those style into my playing. 

 

Another thing is to think about what is your practicing. What is your goal in practicing? Is to sit down and have some fun playing? If so great do that. You might not get leaps and bounds better that way but if your goal is have fun and you have fun practicing then great. If you goal is specific techniques then you must find ways to work on them. For many that is various exersises. These approach rarely works for me. I find songs, passages of songs, or make up ones that can use the technique I want to work on. Having something more musical just works better for me. Some may thing goal setting for practice is overkill or only for those who are uber dedicated. I disagree, your long term goal may not be to the professional and that is fine, but most everyone wants to be better. 

 

And I agree, sometimes a break from it actually improves you.  I'm not talking a long break but take a day or two off and don't play guitar for those days. Then when you return somethings have had time to sink into your brain. And sometimes when I return to the guitar, my playing sounds better. My theory is that, I'm really not a better, but I had become so critial of myself while practicing that I had not really noticed what I had accomplished. That SHORT break allows me really hear where I am at better, not to meantion ear fatiuge which most guitarist discount. But your ear gets tired over time and you don't hear as clearly. That's is also why on these modeling devices after hours of tweaking, you can return to patch the next day and for some reason it sounds like crap. Becuase you set up the patch while you ear was fatigured and now it's not.

 

Hopefully my rambling assisted.

[Brazzy]

well im guessing the regular forum users will know by now i am a self admitted Cra! guitar player (amd bad speller among other things) infact now i think about it i cant think off the top of me head anything i am good at, im rubbish at sport etc, back in my childhood days in the late 70's i was even ultra crap at BMX when it first came to our council estate (always coming off and hurting myself) well just on a bike i was a total disaster, even got knocked over by a car ! my own fault though as i was on the wrong side of the road going around a blind bend, ended up having a head on with a car that was just then driving away from there home, (in my defence i was racing my next door neighbour on my raleigh chopper, stuck in 3rd gear, toggle chain had snapped so those in the know will know what i mean) still all was good as when i got out of hospital my parents paid for the the damage to the car.

 

anyway now im trying to learn how to play the guitar (surly i cant hurt myself using a guitar ? so this has to be a safe hobby for me) i have noticed some times if i try and practice everyday i kind of get stuck in playing the same old rhythm and its almost like im stuck in a infinate loop lol

but if i leave my guitar a couple maybe a few days then start playing around with it i get better and play different .. this is not the first time i have noticed this ..

 

i was just wondering how it was for you ? or other people out there teaching them selfs to play for fun not pro, i have friends show me cords and i teach myself there after ...

 

Good story. "S"! I too have been successful at being unsuccessful, lol. Actually, I'm lucky to be alive and trying to have fun playing guitar right now, lol. Failure leaves the mark of experience on people over the span of their lives, lol. Failure is the placenta of success, lol.

 

The way you describe playing guitar is very similar to how I'm learning. I went through pain like cruisinon spoke about, although, I knew what was happening since pain is one of my best friends, lol, so I just stopped playing so hard in between learning and fixed that.

 

Different instruments can help with breaking up the monotony. For instance, I play a Uke, 5 string Banjo, Acoustic guitar, Keys with a KB37, a violin Bass guitar and a few other guitars I've built or bought. Also, I'll use different amplifiers/settings from time to time. Taking long breaks lets you switch gears. Watch some youtube teachers from time to time can be a good thing too. Most importantly, "never give up", which has to be the one 'mean factor' in the equation/formula that means the most, other than playing from the heart and practicing regularly. Change up the style/genre.

 

Try new things when you can and Keep it Rock'in! DId I mention I'm starting to put a hurt'in on the frets of my strat now, lol.

[duncann]

well im guessing the regular forum users will know by now i am a self admitted Cra! guitar player (amd bad speller among other things) infact now i think about it i cant think off the top of me head anything i am good at, im rubbish at sport etc, back in my childhood days in the late 70's i was even ultra crap at BMX when it first came to our council estate (always coming off and hurting myself) well just on a bike i was a total disaster, even got knocked over by a car ! my own fault though as i was on the wrong side of the road going around a blind bend, ended up having a head on with a car that was just then driving away from there home, (in my defence i was racing my next door neighbour on my raleigh chopper, stuck in 3rd gear, toggle chain had snapped so those in the know will know what i mean) still all was good as when i got out of hospital my parents paid for the the damage to the car.

 

anyway now im trying to learn how to play the guitar (surly i cant hurt myself using a guitar ? so this has to be a safe hobby for me) i have noticed some times if i try and practice everyday i kind of get stuck in playing the same old rhythm and its almost like im stuck in a infinate loop lol

but if i leave my guitar a couple maybe a few days then start playing around with it i get better and play different .. this is not the first time i have noticed this ..

 

i was just wondering how it was for you ? or other people out there teaching them selfs to play for fun not pro, i have friends show me cords and i teach myself there after ...

 

Depending on the music you're playing, don't bet on the guitar, or yourself, not physically hurting you. Happens to me all the time. The most notable injuries would be sliced fingertips and muscle knots in the neck, shoulders, or just about anywhere, as a result of unconscious contortions. Recently, I suspect I might have even fractured one of my fingers. Not sure how, but it hurts bad and prevents any decent, focused playing sessions. It's good to work on your physical self-awareness in space, which is normally automatic behavior for most things.

 

As others have said, mix things up, and even take a break for a day or more if you can, just as you discovered. It's a good habit to get into. It's a lot like running. If you run every day, you might find it becoming harder and harder to run the same distance. But take a day or two off, then the next time you run you find, amazingly, reserves of energy you didn't think you had. Guitar playing is a lot like that. Taking a break makes things fall into place much better.

[radatats]

my two cents... spend some time and money with a good, qualified instructor.  It is so easy to learn bad habits, posture, mechanics and so frigging hard to unlearn these behaviors.  Much of your speed, dexterity, and comfort comes from having the correct mechanics and posture.  Take the time to learn it the right way from the beginning.  We are always happy to drop  big $$$ on some new gear but often reluctant to throw that same cash at a good teacher.  Do some research, get recommendations, find someone you can work with in person at least once a week.

 

For practicing, download some courses and work your way through them step by step.  There are lots of quality videos out there all designed to take you from beginner to performer over time.  Don't rush it!

 

Trust me, it will be well worth it.

[Palico]

For practicing, download some courses and work your way through them step by step.  There are lots of quality videos out there all designed to take you from beginner to performer over time.  Don't rush it

 

+1. For online content I would recommend checking out JamPlay.com. It's not free but pretty cheap. I'm on there and love it. It's not a good as real instructor but they have a ton of content (at various levels and sytles) and interactive lessons (many player in same video chat with instructors) that many people like. I understand some of the other "JustinGuitar" comes up alot are pretty good as well.

[stevevnicks]

i have thought about paying for the odd lesson which i guess would probs be the best route, i dont want to play pro but would be good to get out of the routine im  kind of stuck in, years ago (again back in the 70's) my grandmother tried giving me piano lessons but i never really understood how to read sheet music, i was only about 7 at the time and was more interested in going over the woods with my old sub machine gun (wooden stick) and playing war with me mates, kind of kick meself now because if i had of shown more interest at the age of 7 i would have much more understanding and would not be typing this now lol :/   

 

oh i just like to add i have looked at some of the online lessons, infact i have i got one lesson free from Orange amplification, when i bought the Crush 35RT amp it was included as an free bonus..

 

thing is i think i lost interest when one part of the lesson started playing mary had a little lamb or something like that, now i know we all have to start somewhere but that just dont give me the enthusiasm to want to go any further.

 

if i was paying for a live lesson and the teacher started busting out mary had a little lamb .... then i think i would give up wanting to learn.

 

i mean come on im 45 years old and im pritty sure im not into mary had a little lamb .. well these days at least.

[radatats]

if i was paying for a live lesson and the teacher started busting out mary had a little lamb .... then i think i would give up wanting to learn.

 

like I said, do some local research, ask around, find somebody you can relate to.  You don't need to learn to read sheet music, you need someone who is going to teach you how to play.  Someone to watch you play and tell you what you are doing wrong and show you the right way.  It will be the best money you ever spent...

[CipherHost]

I first picked up a guitar when I was about 13. I'll be 54 in 2 months. I tried guitar lessons from a guy at a local music shop. He was more interested in teaching me what he liked to play than what I was interested in. If I had been more assertive, I would have found another teacher but I was just a kid that did not really understand the long term view. I basically learned everything I played by ear from that point on. 

 

My first guitar was a string-less acoustic that my mom hung on the the basement wall as art. Not a keeper to say the least. I pulled it down and strung it up. I learned chords from a sheet of paper with the basic forms we all started with. Many years passed that I never picked up the guitar. I regret that now.

 

Players my age did not grow up with the unbelievable advantages younger players have today. There was no POD. There was no internet. There were no forums where others paid it forward like folks do here. There were 45s you could play back at LP speed and LPs your could play back at 78. Now there are more opportunities and affordable equipment than a person could ever get through in a lifetime. 

 

I finally decided to spend more time learning to play about 3 years ago. I have spent a few bucks on equipment throughout the years. I found myself in that rut you mentioned. I have spent time searching the internet for free lessons and such. There are good sites available and I have learned a few things that way. Just the other day I finally decided it was time to put a little money into learning some songs because that is what interests me. Maybe I should be concerned with theory but what holds my attention right now is playing songs. As I progress I will likely need to pick up theory to advance. So I signed up for a paid site. It's only $99 a year and when I consider the time I am saving it is worth it. The more songs I learn the easier it becomes for me to figure out songs on my own. It gives me insight I would have otherwise not gained. 

 

So, stevevnicks, you are not too much younger that I am, but my advice would be to take those 9 years you have before you are my age and do something you enjoy. There are plenty of different songs and styles on the site I joined and I like the format the lessons are presented in. They even have videos on theory when I decide I need that. Maybe next year there will a different site that fills my needs but in the mean time, life is too short at my age to do anything else but what I enjoy doing.

 

Carpe Diem.

[Brazzy]

i mean come on im 45 years old and im pritty sure im not into mary had a little lamb .. well these days at least.

 

I wasn't into "Mary had a little lamb" when I 3 yrs old, lol. That was too funny....

[stevevnicks]

thanks for everyones advice, i find it really interesting reading how people first got into playing and the way they delt with the learning curve, i  first picked up a guitar when i was 17 well i say 17 although apart from the school i went to we used to get music lessons, but no one used to listen to the teacher. people would be throwing those thick 78 records out the window and watching them smash on the ground out side, the school was known for being unruly and has been knocked down and replaced by a new school these days, now i think back i would have had no chance learning there anyway the teacher would just be sitting there most the lesson shouting or with his hands over his face ... poor old boi, but he did at least try.

 

when i left school i ened up working on a fairground for around 7 years where a few of my friends i met working there were learning to jam, i used to try and learn back then but i was a bit of an party animal in the younger years..

 

these days i dont really go out or do anything so learning to play now i kind of feel maybe i have left it a little late in my life to expect myself to be any good, but in the same breath as long a im enjoying what im doing its all good by me.

 

it the blues style i would love to be able to play and if i ever do learn how to play it i would be more than happy with myself.

 

haha yea mary had a little lamb in blues form might have kept me interested a little bit longer, why do they feel you need to learn that type of thing i will never understand ? i mean i just starting to learn guitar not just been born ? so why would they feel the need to teach you that type of thing is just odd at my age.

[zaphodboy]

Two things which really helped me improve

 

1. Join a band. It doesn't matter if you suck. In my case it was an indie rock covers band in the late 80s. It's surprising how much further you can push yourself when exposed to other peoples ideas, maybe with different tastes. You find yourself playing stuff you otherwise may never even have heard, let alone played so it gets you out of the loop of picking your guitar up and playing that riff....you know the one.....AGAIN! Plus if you're in a band you'll subconsciously try that bit harder because you don't want to let your band mates down or look a complete tool! I found I got a lot better fairly quickly when I joined a band.

 

2. Download one of those programs which allows you to slow down a track but keep it in pitch. I used to find a track I really wanted to play but just couldn't. The one that sticks out for me was the solo from Bohemian Rhapsody. I could almost play it but not quite. Once I slowed the track down by 15% I could just about manage it. Practice it at 15% then, once you've mastered it speed up to 10% and so on. I still use this method when I need to learn a particularly tricky passage.

 

Hope that helps mate!

[stevevnicks]

its a funny age to be, i mean to get any of my mates in one place at the same time and want to practice, the friends i have that do play i am nowhere near good enough to practice with, as they have been playing for over 20 years, they play just for fun maybe once a week for around 4-5 hours and i would just ruin the only day they get to jam together lol

 

they have said join in, LOL what ! okie dokie, it would go from sounding good to what the feck is that plonker doing over there ? someone turn off his amp quick !!

 

to befair i have had a little jam with the bass player and drumer which was ok but i cant help feeling im taking up there time where they want to be playing rather than trying to teach if you know what i mean.

[BillBee]

Well my man you just have to put your time in. I was giving lessons to a friend who is ~ 50 and he would talk the same. It sounds bad, I just want to jam and play. Well there is no real shortcut to learning the basics - I had him basically sit down for 15 - 20 minutes every practice and do 1) fingering exercises then the pentatonic scale in 1st position (minor) then second, etc. It allowed him to get the muscle memory going and fretboard knowledge to not only play some licks but also know why and where they fit. There is a lot of baby steps that need to happen to get up and running. After that its just taking the ball and running with it.

 

BTW have you ever heard Buddy Guy or SRV play Mary had a Little Lamb. :)

 

If fingering exercises get too boring, do what I do, I unplug and mindlessly do them while watching the tube or a game.

 

-Bill

[Palico]

2. Download one of those programs which allows you to slow down a track but keep it in pitch. I used to find a track I really wanted to play but just couldn't. The one that sticks out for me was the solo from Bohemian Rhapsody. I could almost play it but not quite. Once I slowed the track down by 15% I could just about manage it. Practice it at 15% then, once you've mastered it speed up to 10% and so on. I still use this method when I need to learn a particularly tricky passage.

 

Any recommdataions? 

I use guitar pro 6 for practicing as it slows down the tab but it's a tab based one that you have get the tab for. I've never really been one to try it this way by ear. I usually start with the tab and once I get the tab version down pretty good move on a play along with youtube version of song and find out where the tab is incorrect and adjust. Trying to track solely against the original audio would be good skill to add to my resume. This is  great time to learn guitar with all the tools @ our disposal these days.

[BillBee]

The Amazing Slowdowner is a good audio one. You can loop sections, slow down and even change pitch. When it comes time to pick out a song that has no tab it is my tool of choice if things get tricky.

[CipherHost]

Any recommdataions? 

I use guitar pro 6 for practicing as it slows down the tab but it's a tab based one that you have get the tab for. I've never really been one to try it this way by ear. I usually start with the tab and once I get the tab version down pretty good move on a play along with youtube version of song and find out where the tab is incorrect and adjust. Trying to track solely against the original audio would be good skill to add to my resume. This is  great time to learn guitar with all the tools @ our disposal these days.

 

Audacity is free and has a lot of add ins that manipulate your track, including one that slows down the track and maintains pitch.

[duncann]

Any recommdataions? 

I use guitar pro 6 for practicing as it slows down the tab but it's a tab based one that you have get the tab for. I've never really been one to try it this way by ear. I usually start with the tab and once I get the tab version down pretty good move on a play along with youtube version of song and find out where the tab is incorrect and adjust. Trying to track solely against the original audio would be good skill to add to my resume. This is  great time to learn guitar with all the tools @ our disposal these days.

 

Give Reaper a try. Or RiffStation.

[cruisinon2]

If you want to get better, three things are of paramount importance:

 

1) Develop a basic technical foundation. Yes it's repetitive and tedious...playing scales and apreggios to a metronome is not terribly musical. It's also a necessity, no matter what style of music you want to play.

 

2) Learn a style other than what you play most often. Imho, for learning the fretboard and seeing how melody lines are built over an underlying harmonic structure, nothing beats chord melody pieces (i.e. George Van Epps, Johnny Smith). Some sight reading is required for stuff like this...but it doesn't matter if you're piecing it together one measure at a time at first...the end result is a much greater understanding of the fretboard, which can then be applied to any style of music under the sun.

 

3) Play with, and/or in front of people who are better than you. My very first live performance, I was 15 yrs old at the now defunct Nation Guitar Summer Workshop...in front of a room full of 300 other guitar players. By default, every audience since has been considerably more forgiving...never had a problem with stagefright since, lol.

[Brazzy]

its a funny age to be, i mean to get any of my mates in one place at the same time and want to practice, the friends i have that do play i am nowhere near good enough to practice with, as they have been playing for over 20 years, they play just for fun maybe once a week for around 4-5 hours and i would just ruin the only day they get to jam together lol

 

they have said join in, LOL what ! okie dokie, it would go from sounding good to what the feck is that plonker doing over there ? someone turn off his amp quick !!

 

to befair i have had a little jam with the bass player and drumer which was ok but i cant help feeling im taking up there time where they want to be playing rather than trying to teach if you know what i mean.

 

Hey man, I stumbled on this thread about learning. http://peavey.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=39721

 

There's always someone learning guitar. I started late in life too and not only that I was pretty messed up from bad bodily injuries. Took me a long, long time before there was any signs of rhythm in my hands at all. I still have trouble but I just keep practicing and hav'in fun with it. If your playing buddies aren't laughing when you flub up maybe they need to loosen up a little more or maybe you'll find someone more suited to you.

 

Lotts of good posts on this thread too.

[stevevnicks]

cheers brazzy i will give it a look fella

these are the only chords i know and can play at the moment
A, Am, C, D, Dm, E, Em and Fmaj7 and now G7 .. having some fun with that one while using my little finger to mess around with E and B strings heh

[CipherHost]

why do they feel you need to learn that type of thing i will never understand ? i mean i just starting to learn guitar not just been born ? so why would they feel the need to teach you that type of thing is just odd at my age.

 

I am not a guitar teacher, but I believe the reason they teach Mary had a Little Lamb is because it is a tune most people can recite off the top of their head. What this means is that you already know what it is supposed to sound like and your brain can compare and contrast what you expect from what you are playing. It is also a very simple song with only 4 notes. 

 

Granted, there are other (more adult) songs that might work, but it may be a challenge to find one so universally known.

[Brazzy]

cheers brazzy i will give it a look fella

 

these are the only chords i know and can play at the moment

A, Am, C, D, Dm, E, Em and Fmaj7 and now G7 .. having some fun with that one while using my little finger to mess around with E and B strings heh

 

That's pretty good. You can actually do quite a bit with that. Move up and down the neck with those and your dexterity will improve greatly. Holding bars chords and moving up and down the fret board is what hurt my hands and arms. I've learned to be able to relax my hands and arms while switching up positions and changing chords at the same time as it's easier and allows me to play longer in order to build myself up.

 

I used to take one 3 note chord and practice pulsating the notes and then work my way to another 3 notes chord and do the same thing, this also hurt my hand for a while until I got stronger. This took a long time for me since I had to practice for short periods of time and then come back to it over and over again, lol, in order to prevent myself from causing too much pain if ya get my meaning, hahaahaaaa

 

Doing this with drum beats of some kind made it more fun but I also did it without them. Hope I was able to convey that to you in some meaningful way. :) Practice, stop, practice makes you better.

[stevevnicks]

huh funny enough thats what i have started doing a few days ago, messing around up and down the neck ...ooohh eerr .. umm some how that dont sound to good :\

 

dont know what sounds worse, my guitar playing or the way i word things sometimes :blink:  ...

 

oh yeah i forgot to say i do have an old Oxygen 25 keyboard which uses some free download software called ignite, it has quite a lot of drum styles to play around with, infact not a bad bit of software for free, i think it works with most usb keyboard controllers and is pritty much idiot proof to use. 

[Brazzy]

huh funny enough thats what i have started doing a few days ago, messing around up and down the neck ...ooohh eerr .. umm some how that dont sound to good :\

 

Hahaaaaaaa Good One!

[SteveEds]

Like a few here I also started at 12-13 years old, now 58. I'm one of those with no talent at all but just loved playing. At around 18 I took lessons in playing lead and I remember taking one year to learn the lead to sweet home alabama which I promptly forgot about 3 months later, it was an expensive lead to forget (smile) 

 

I played in bands as a very average player but I did bring my passion along each week and which was mistaken for talent by the other very average muso's in the group but the fun factor was very high.

 

At around 30 it occurred that my old teacher could "jam" along with any chords I played and that started to fascinate me so I played over and over SHA for at least another year and worked out the pentecostal scale all by myself (no Jesus had nothing to do with it) I worked out (this is still pre-internet) that playing in a different key meant I could switch patterns and it all opened up. Now this was a big thing back then and I was slightly miffed that my teachers never showed me but he did get the money and that was fine.

 

I also found you can play lead guitar and sound ok without actually having to know a chord, just the key it was in, I jammed everywhere and even with no ability I sounded ok, that led onto the sound and after awhile I saw if you can get the sound of the band you could trick anyone into thinking you not only knew what you were doing you had this mystical talent.

 

When skynet came online and youtube arrived I did a we video showing how this worked, since then there are so many brilliant "how to" videos out there now, but, I'll show you mine, remember I worked this out by my myself and this is a place just to talk about guitar stuff.

 

I was talking to a friend who had being playing in a band and told him about it, this was 20 years ago he went away for 15 minutes and called back and said it was like a jigsaw puzzle coming together for him after years, this completed it all for me.

 

I tried to find the y/tube video but can't, it's their somewhere called "the trick" anyway it's not important.