Helix and the DT amps

[Vic20-Ian]

Many thanks.

 

I was trying it out last night and nothing was happening.

 

Every patch I selected had the same DT25 settings.

 

I created a Vox AC30 patch and set Topology III, Class A and Pentode on the Helix and that worked.

 

All the other patches switch back to a default.

 

I don't think 2.81 has the correct DT25 Topologies set for the presets.

 

Does anyone have a list of the correct DT25 settings for each amp model?

 

Line6 - please can you provide this in the next update? Thank you.

[gtrman100]

The DT amp settings aren't set for each amp model from the factory. They are just giving you the option to set each preset to control the DT the way you like. It's just another option of tone control that you can use a preset 2 store. You might like a marshall with a Class A output stage, or a Vox with class A B. It's up to you.

[Vic20-Ian]

Modelling original amplifiers is part of the reason for purchase, flexibility is another.

 

My expectation would be that the base setting for a Vox AC30 model would be correct in the Helix model including the DT25 new parameters Topology III and Class A.

 

If the Pod HD500 has the correct topology in the patches then the Helix should be able to do the same now that the connectivity is there.

 

It just seems to have been missed when releasing 2.8 and 2.81

 

Has anyone created a list of the models and the correct Topology, Class etc?

 

If not I will give it a go with my HD500 and DT25 and google for anything extra in the Helix.

 

[Vic20-Ian]

Line 6 replied to a PM  and said they left DT25 not configured and to figure it out myself.

 

Over £2k spent on JTV '59, Helix and DT25 and to get the tone you have to do the rest yourself.

 

You might as well configure all the effect chain and an amp and then select no cabinet or output and tell the user they have to set the rest up themselves to hear something.

 

The PodHD500 models set the correct topology, the Helix should do the same.

 

I did not sign up to guess what the tone should sound like, it was sold as a tool that would do that job.

 

Step up and fix the DT25 parameters in the patches and defaults for amps please Line 6. Please finish the job and don't leave it half done.

[phil_m]

45 minutes ago, Vic20-Ian said:

Line 6 replied to a PM  and said they left DT25 not configured and to figure it out myself.

 

Over £2k spent on JTV '59, Helix and DT25 and to get the tone you have to do the rest yourself.

 

You might as well configure all the effect chain and an amp and then select no cabinet or output and tell the user they have to set the rest up themselves to hear something.

 

The PodHD500 models set the correct topology, the Helix should do the same.

 

I did not sign up to guess what the tone should sound like, it was sold as a tool that would do that job.

 

Step up and fix the DT25 parameters in the patches and defaults for amps please Line 6. Please finish the job and don't leave it half done.

 

I can pretty much guarantee they aren't going to do that...

 

The fact is that a lot of the newer amps that are modeled don't necessarily neatly fit into the 4 voicings that the DT offers. Roughly speaking, you can think of them like this:

 

I - Fender 6L6

II - Marshall/Park KT88

III - Vox EL84

IV - Mesa 6L6

 

The vast majority of amps are Type A/B. The Vox AC30 and AC15 are probably the most common Class A amps. The new tweed models could possibly be considered Class A. I don't know that any of the HD amps used the Triode power setting by default.

 

It's really not anything to get that worked up over. The whole point isn't really to have the "correct" power amp settings. It's to give you flexibility to have it sound like you want it. I find I often like the "wrong" settings better. For instance, the Deluxe Reverb sounds and feels better with the DT25 set to Class A to me.

[PDKTDK]

I find the controls pretty straight forward. 

 

...and the results undeniable. 

 

Its a a definite upgrade. YMMV

[Digital_Igloo]

7 hours ago, Vic20-Ian said:

Step up and fix the DT25 parameters in the patches and defaults for amps please Line 6.

There's nothing to fix, as Helix <—> DT integration works exactly the way in which it was intended.

 

First of all, unlike HD500X, Helix supports up to four simultaneous Amp blocks. Which one's virtual topology is the connected DT supposed to pay attention to? What happens when you have two DTs connected? Which channel on which DT responds to which Amp block? Now what happens when you delete that block? What happens if you copy and paste an Amp block? What happens when you delete all Amp blocks? What happens when you have two Amp blocks and swap their order or L-R configuration? It's a veritable rat's next of "what ifs."

 

There are likely solutions to all the above questions (albeit inelegant ones), and sure, we could've spent months figuring out every possible iteration and added yet another half dozen parameters to the Output block, but in the end, we have to pick our battles. The number of DT users who A) also own Helix, B) connect the two via L6 LINK, C) used to use DT with POD HD500X and are accustomed to how that worked, and D) insist on not learning new paradigms... is a tiny TINY fraction compared to the number of users who've requested features slated for 2.90 and beyond. It sucks, but it's the same reason Disney/Marvel would rather focus on The Avengers than Howard the Duck 2, despite how passionate and vocal some Howard the Duck fans are.

[Vic20-Ian]

Thanks for the replies.

 

I appreciate the difficulties explained.

 

Frustration was borne out of having the messaging saying that DT25 support was now working then spending time to figure out why nothing was changing when I switched patches.

 

Adding some appropriate settings for some factory patches would show the DT25 changing rather than static. 

 

Coming from other devices e.g. PodHD500 and not getting the same capability seemed like a downgrade but I understand the 4 amp challenge etc.

 

I got it working by creating my own patch with Vox and Class A, Topology III and then figured out all the others were just set to a global default.

 

It would be great to have the basic one amp patches at least set to an appropriate Class and Topology to get the best out of Helix and DT25 out of the box. 

 

 

[Digital_Igloo]

6 hours ago, Vic20-Ian said:

It would be great to have the basic one amp patches at least set to an appropriate Class and Topology to get the best out of Helix and DT25 out of the box.

That's pretty easy to do. I'll speak with the team.

[gtrman100]

On 8/24/2019 at 2:27 AM, Vic20-Ian said:

It would be great to have the basic one amp patches at least set to an appropriate Class and Topology to get the best out of Helix and DT25 out of the box. 

 

 

It's easy to do for yourself, plus it has the advantage of letting you experiment with the parameters to find your desired tone. There are only a few amps that are class A designed- Vox, Matchless, Fender Champ and Supro.

[Vic20-Ian]

@Digital_Igloo Many thanks that will be great and may save someone else a few hours wondering why the DT25 was not responding :-)

 

@gtrman100 Thanks. The reason I requested it to be added was so that once set up it does not all disappear next firmware update. 

[PDKTDK]

On 8/24/2019 at 5:27 AM, Vic20-Ian said:

It would be great to have the basic one amp patches at least set to an appropriate Class and Topology to get the best out of Helix and DT25 out of the box. 

 

That would be cool to have a DT subgroup of amp models.  Not that there’s a huge group of us. 

[Vic20-Ian]

Even setting the defaults to Pentode not Triode would be better than no change.

 

Hopefully they will take up the suggestion to edit some of the patches to sound their most suitable out of the box with DT amps connected.

[adamaxe]

On 8/24/2019 at 10:29 AM, Digital_Igloo said:

That's pretty easy to do. I'll speak with the team.

 

I went ahead and set all the DT Topology settings to the best of my ability for the first 13 presets of Helix 2.81. Would anyone be interested in that backup? Can you even use someone else's backup?

 

I was going to try to put it up for free on the Market, but you have to be a vendor.

 

Then, I was going to put it up in CustomTone, but it looks like you have to go patch by patch. That would take an enormous amount of time.

 

Any suggestions? Can I just upload my .hxb here?

 

Here is the spreadsheet I used to create it.

 

The rig:

Line 6 Helix Floor 2.81

DT 50 Head

2015 Les Paul Traditional Pro III

Marshall 1922 Cab

 

Line6HelixtoDTConnectivity.pdf

[Fenderflame28]

Hi all. Finally bit the bullet on a Helix LT. Only had it for a day and I'm trying to figure something out. I will use it over L6 Link to the DT25 so I will use pre-amp blocks rather than amp or amp and cab. Can I somehow split my output so I can set it up like this:

 

Path one - Helix pre amp - DT25 via L6 Link.

Path two - the signal from path one sent to Helix cab or IR to XLR out, FX send or 1/4" out to take a signal to a PA mixer.

 

Ideally I would want to do this so I hear my signal through the DT25 (using the DT25 power amp and cab) but my audience hear the signal with a cab or IR modelled in through the PA.

 

I think this works with the path one output set to multi and then taking 1/4" out into 'return 1' using a patch cable and setting up path 2 to take 'return1', add the cab /IR and go out to send 2 and taking that send 2 to the PA mixer input. But it's there a simpler way?

 

I could just use the DI out on the back of the DT25 to go to the PA mixer but it would be nice to use IRs or cab and mic modelling of I could.

 

Any thoughts my esteemed friends?

 

[bobcoss]

FenderFlame, you could always get an XLR adaptor to 1/4 and run that back to your effects return on the helix on another path and throw in effects and IRs to taste.  seems like too much effort to me to send to front of house.  I would just use the Helix amp/cab/ir to go FOH.

 

You mentioned you would like to do this:

 

      Path one - Helix pre amp - DT25 via L6 Link.    

      Path two - the signal from path one sent to Helix cab or IR to XLR out, FX send or 1/4" out to take a signal to a PA mixer.

 

I did something like that Monday night to build a Wet Dry Wet patch with my DT25 and two Headrush FRFR212 speakers.   I setup in path 1 with the drive blocks into a "Y split".  I continued on Path 1a to my Amp/Cab -> stereo delay, and stereo reverb blocks. -> Output 1A was set to XLR.   Path 2a I sent to the preamp block and then set the output to "digital" and there setup my topology for the DT25.  You have to remember to pull down the return 1B from path 1A to the output 1A or it just get combined back into 1A.    That's the best I can tell you from memory at work.   Its very doable.

 

 

 

[marvio]

Alright, like many of you I was "surprised" that the HELIX did not have native control over the DT (in my case 50 2x12 combo). I've found some OK tones, but they sound too processed? IS that the word? Tried using just the pre amp models, but they don;t sound good, it sounds like midway between not having a cab and having one (if that makes sense), using the "full amp" is what gave me the best results, never really tried to use the amp+cab (that seems crazy to me).

 

So, after reading the thread, I'm now confused! :)

 

How should I set up the HELIX to best match with the DT (over line6 link)?

Just the pre amp? The full amp? Also, what is it that you guys were talking about setting the topology on the DT? ( I know what it is, and how to set it on the DT itself), but how to set it on a patch from the HELIX? Do I just choose the topology  I want on the DT, load the patch on the HELIX and hit save, and HELIX somehow remembers it?

 

I gotta say, I liked how my POD500X sounded a lot more than the HELIX. I really hope, as someone suggested, that Line6 could create a sub section of the amp models for the DT users, and make those work like the POD did

[PDKTDK]

Wow!

 

First time I heard someone prefer the legacy combo over the Helix.

 

I also have had better (or easier) results with some full amp models.

 

To answer one of your question:  Yeah you can manually set your DT settings and they will save when you hit save on your helix. (Minus MASTER VOL and REVERB of course)

 

It took my hours to get sounds I liked on the DT/HD setup.  With the HELIX I find it so easy.  I'm really surprised (and sympathetic) that you aren't getting the results you want.

 

What style(s) are you playing? Just curious.

Where do you keep the master volume on the Helix?

 

I sincerely hope everything works out for you. 

[marvio]

On 10/30/2019 at 7:37 PM, PDKTDK said:

Wow!

 

First time I heard someone prefer the legacy combo over the Helix.

 

I also have had better (or easier) results with some full amp models.

 

To answer one of your question:  Yeah you can manually set your DT settings and they will save when you hit save on your helix. (Minus MASTER VOL and REVERB of course)

 

It took my hours to get sounds I liked on the DT/HD setup.  With the HELIX I find it so easy.  I'm really surprised (and sympathetic) that you aren't getting the results you want.

 

What style(s) are you playing? Just curious.

Where do you keep the master volume on the Helix?

 

I sincerely hope everything works out for you. 

HEy, thanks for answering that man! :)

 

Yeah, in my experience it was much easier to get some really awesome tones out of the POD HD + DT  than it has been with the helix + DT, I guess it's because the POD and DT were made to work together, and it seems it was an afterthought with the HELIX? Not sure...

 

I play heavier rock, in my new band, it's not quite metal, but definitely "guitar driven" music, put it that way :) 

The tone "in my head" is definitely classic 80's metal derived, but a lot "cleaner" sounding, I want to hear all the notes on a 7th/add11th/suspended/diminished chord, but with enough "heavy" for some occasional "chugga chugga" too , if that makes any sense!? :)

 

I had it down pat with the pod HD and the DT, I was using the JCM800 "special" DT pre amp, with the blue compressor in front (to push and give clarity), and some super light EQ on the rear, just pushing less than a DB on some mid to high frequencies, it was really perfect :)

 

My patches tend to be that simple, especially for live playing with the DT, maybe I should think differently with the HELIX?

[Hedon09]

yesterday i got a used dt25 for use with my helix lt at home. updated the dt firmware to 2.0 (took a little time for line 6 monkey to finally be convinced to do the update) and voila...dt topology etc. is controllable via L6-Link.

i use the preamp models in the lt and they sound really good and give a good amp-in-the-room-feel when used with the dt power amp via L6-Link.

now the channel a amp potis itself loose function when the helix lt's preamps are used (and i understand it's supposed to be that way) except for the master volume and the presence-poti (which behaves a little weird but at least does something).

since most of helix lt's preamps don't seem to have a presence dial modelled (makes perfect sence since it's normally a poweramp stage) is there a way to store the presence-value from the dt amplifier in the helix patch per preset and if so...where?

i can't find a parameter in the helix output-section where topology and the other stuff is located.

i understand that i could simply use an eq after the preamp to simulate a presence control but i'm curious if it's possible to use the dt amps internal presence and store it.

 

[sorcerer532]

On 6/13/2015 at 10:22 AM, ColonelForbin said:

So here is how the DT behaves with the two button latching footswitch - it would probably work better with a one button switch if you could get one that only did channel switching.

 

With the reverb button, light off means the Reverb is 'on'. Light on, reverb off. For the channel switching, it's not instant, and there is a noticable silent / audio drop out. If you are playing and trigger a channel change for a lead boost, it will sound like you flubbed the timing and came in late. Perfectly fine for changing not 'on the fly', and in general I do make good use of it. But since it can't function as a lead boost / clean boost as I originally hoped, it kinda took a backseat to other pedals, and I don't use it much.

 

Hi, ColonelForbin, or anybody else that would like to chime in!

 

Are you saying the DT25 lights an LED on a footswitch that has no battery? 

 

Does anybody know if using a channel footswitch on a DT50 drops audio when switching channels?

EDIT(S):

I connected a momentary footswitch to my DT50 to test this.

It will drop audio in very specific scenarios explained in the manuals.

Switching from Topology I (Channel A) to Topology IV (Channel B)--both channels set to Class AB & Pentode--is instantaneous.

*If Phase Inverter B+ Voltage of either channel is different there is a drop when switching channels

Edited July 24, 2020 by sorcerer532

[Hedon09]

On 6/4/2020 at 1:25 AM, Hedon09 said:

yesterday i got a used dt25 for use with my helix lt at home. updated the dt firmware to 2.0 (took a little time for line 6 monkey to finally be convinced to do the update) and voila...dt topology etc. is controllable via L6-Link.

i use the preamp models in the lt and they sound really good and give a good amp-in-the-room-feel when used with the dt power amp via L6-Link.

now the channel a amp potis itself loose function when the helix lt's preamps are used (and i understand it's supposed to be that way) except for the master volume and the presence-poti (which behaves a little weird but at least does something).

since most of helix lt's preamps don't seem to have a presence dial modelled (makes perfect sence since it's normally a poweramp stage) is there a way to store the presence-value from the dt amplifier in the helix patch per preset and if so...where?

i can't find a parameter in the helix output-section where topology and the other stuff is located.

i understand that i could simply use an eq after the preamp to simulate a presence control but i'm curious if it's possible to use the dt amps internal presence and store it.

 

nobody?