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What sort of amp / speaker to use with a Helix ?

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I really like the look of this Helix, and are thinking about "downgrading" (size-wise) from my Spider Value Mk II w/ 4x12 cab.

 

 

I've been gigging and going to band practice with the 4x12 cab + head for years now, and it's frankly a bit of a hassle to cart around. I've never actually been at a gig where I actually needed that much volume.

 

So I've been thinking for a while now, what I really needed was just the "brains" of my Spider Value, going straight into a PA.

 

So I'm quite pleased with the announcement of the Helix, as this was exactly what I was after.   I guess I could have done something similar with a POD, but for some reason the POD never appealed to me.

 

 

But this Helix looks awesome and would let me use the same unit in many different situations (gigs, practice, recordings, at home, etc)

 

 

 

But what to do about a speaker, for situations where there is no PA ?

 

I know very little about "Full Range Full Response" (FRFR) speakers, but I'm assuming that you would need to use a FRFR speaker with the Helix to get the best possible sound?

 

If you plug it into an amp, isn't the amp going to "color" the Helix sound?

 

I know that my Spider Value head isn't going into a FRFR speaker either - but I'm assuming the modelling on the Spider Valve has been "adjusted" for use with the celestial speakers.  Whereas the modelling in the Helix isn't going to know what speakers you have, so it will work best with a FRFR speaker?

 

 

What good FRFR options are their for the Helix?   Line6 has their Stage Source speakers - is line6 expecting we use Helix with one of those speakers?

 

I really haven't seen much information on this with regards to Helix, so I wanted to ask the question.

 

 

cheers,

-adam

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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im no expert although, i would say to get the full effect of the Helix at its best i would Use an FRFR based setup same goes for the HD500/X ...

 

i would look at the new Yamaha Speakers like the DXR12's or DSR's.

 

the DSR range (taken from yamahas website)

 

High Performance Digital Signal Processor and 24-bit Discrete AD and DA Converters

 

All signals are precisely processed by a 48-bit internal processing (76-bit accumulator) high performance processor for optimum sound quality. The DSR Series employs high precision discrete AD and DA converters with superior S/N ratio and dynamic range. The analog signal is transmitted on dual channels, converted to digital and summed inside the processor. By using this algorithm, approximately 3dB of improvement in S/N ratio was realized.

 

should play nice with the Helix and HD500/X

 

http://www.yamahaproaudio.com/global/en/products/speakers/dsr_series/features.jsp

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What I'd really like to see released, to compliment the helix, is a stagesource spec speaker with the appearance of a traditional guitar amp - a powered frfr guitar cab like the Gemini 2 but more dt50 styled and at an affordable price . I'm sure a stagesource l2m would work great but it looks nothing like a guitar cab. The blueamps cabs look interesting but like the Gemini are just too damn pricey.

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What I'd really like to see released, to compliment the helix, is a stagesource spec speaker with the appearance of a traditional guitar amp - a powered frfr guitar cab like the Gemini 2 but more dt50 styled and at an affordable price . I'm sure a stagesource l2m would work great but it looks nothing like a guitar cab. The blueamps cabs look interesting but like the Gemini are just too damn pricey.

 

I think this is a great idea. You should post it on ideascale.

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I could see them doing it but not at a decent price point.  I've built a few cabs before but to get a true FRFR takes a lot of design work and matching of drivers to cab size.  Then you have to cram a decent amp inside and deal with all the heat and vibration issues... Of course Line 6 would have to incorporate L6 link and DSP to match their other gear so I would expect it to be more than an L2 by the time they are done.

 

Here is an idea.  Buy a pair of Alto TS110a speakers and build 1X12 guitar cabs and mount them securely inside.  It looks like a regular guitar cab but sounds like a good FRFR speaker.  Make it open back for ease of installation and removal  Now you have best of both worlds for little money. I can build a pair of cabs like that for under $100 in parts including tolex and grill cloth...  ;)

 

Here is a quick mockup with a TS110a... fits perfectly in a 1X12 cab shell.  Cab ends up 22 x 18 x 14, about 35lbs total just like most others.  Nobody would ever know...

 

https://www.tinkercad.com/things/1gtdt7N5rlg-frfr-shell-cab

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I think this is a great idea. You should post it on ideascale.

Already have if you guys would like to vote on it

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Already have if you guys would like to vote on it

 

That was where you make it easy for us by providing the link.

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Done!

So apparently the idea is 'in review' which according to the below info pulled from the ideascale help pages could be very promising:

 

Each idea in your community has a status that shows community members the progress of Idea as it is considered and/or implemented.

What statuses can an idea have?

  • Inbound: Default status for Ideas created by un-authenticated widget users. These ideas are queued up to be either approved by the Member himself after authentication or by an authenticated Moderator.
  • Active: Default status for Ideas created by authenticated Members. Ideas in this state are visible in most screens.
  • In Review: Idea is being reviewed & will possibly be implemented.
  • In Progress: Idea is actively being worked on.
  • Complete: Idea has been implemented.
  • Closed: Idea will not be considered. The Idea is hidden from community members entirely.
  • Off-Topic: Idea is not relevant in the context of this community. The Idea is viewable and searchable, but not part of the main list of ideas (Popular, recent, etc).

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Live, I'll be using Helix Rack with an L2t. In the studio, I'll be switching between ADAM P22A and Mackie HD824 monitors.

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Live, I'll be using Helix Rack with an L2t. In the studio, I'll be switching between ADAM P22A and Mackie HD824 monitors.

Just curious, why the rack and not the floorboard?  Do you use the Helix controller?  If so what about no expression pedal?  does the Helix save L2t modes better than the POD?

 

PS: did you get your Trio yet?

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1. Just curious, why the rack and not the floorboard? 2. Do you use the Helix controller? 3. If so what about no expression pedal? 4. Does the Helix save L2t modes better than the POD? 5. PS: did you get your Trio yet?

 

1. Personal preference. More rackspace in my studio than floorspace.

2. They're not in yet, but I will when they are.

3. I plan on snagging a couple Mission pedals. Rack guys generally care more about footprint and using their favorite expression pedals; floorboard guys generally care more about portability and convenience.

4. Not sure what you mean.

5. No TRIO yet, but I won't have time to build templates for a while anyway.

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I notice DI voted positively for my post on ideascale so I'm really hoping this means there's one on the way, I would very much like the opportunity to buy a well priced bundle of helix with traditional styled frfr to use with my jtv, prs, strat and acoustics

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If you plug it into an amp, isn't the amp going to "color" the Helix sound?

 

 

 

 

 

Everything will to a greater or lesser extent...though FRFR should be more transparent than a traditional guitar rig. But like anything else, not all FRFR speakers are created equal. You can always expect some subtle differences from one speaker to another, and some tweaeking is inevitable. Lots of good options out there.

 

I love my L2T, but they're pricey...and with the advent of the POD's global EQ which does not function via L6 Link, it makes the Stagesource line a little less versatile if you're only using one as a monitor or backline, as you cannot switch between the various modes from the POD when connected via 1/4" cable. Had I known that ahead of time, I likely would have gone with a less costly option...that said, it does sound great.

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I could see them doing it but not at a decent price point.  I've built a few cabs before but to get a true FRFR takes a lot of design work and matching of drivers to cab size. 

 

 

Yeah...there are a few companies out there making more "guitar amp looking" FRFR cabs and powered speakers, but they all cost a bloody fortune...more $$ than the Stagesource stuff. I was a little put off by the appearance of the L2T initially, but I've made my peace with it. Since I'm using it as a monitor and running the POD out to the PA, nobody's looking at it anyway unless they're staring at my shoes...in which case I would likely have bigger problems than what the amp looks like. ;)

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On a related note, I've just been offered an Atomic Reactor Fr Cab for £200, a few scuffs but recent re valve. To buy or not to buy

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If it's the Atomic FR with the little horn driver, they actually warm up a POD or other pedal nicely...

I still have one and use it from time to time for small venues.

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I plan to use the Helix (rack version) for the central nervous system for my studio!

 

When I first get it, I will use it on my current monitoring system. 

 

Speakers are: Event BAS 20/20 studio monitors (2). These are easily considered FRFR.  (connected to Helix through XLR outputs)

Headphones are: AKG-K712 Pro (extremely high quality headphones) this will often be going through a Little Dot Mk II headphone amp with aftermarket tubes. (this will be using the 1/4 outputs on the Helix to RCA inputs on the Little Dot)

Other times straight from the headphone output of the Helix.

 

I may upgrade headphone amps later, and studio monitor speakers to maybe a Presonus Scepter s6 setup, with a Temblor 10 sub.. (maybe)

 

I often thought about getting two cabinets on either side of the room, but honestly the studio monitors are more than sufficient for this task, and they are already there. Space is already limited.

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Those are (more than likely) even more high quality, but its safe to say the AKG K712 Pro are extreme high quality headphones as well. These are some that you don't have to pay $1,500 for!

I surely wouldn't classify them as regular headphones lol, not even close.

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Well, I guess it depends on your point of view. I own several headphones, from $250 to $550 USD, by companies like Sony and Ultrasone. To me, those are just regular headphones. Most headphones below that are crap, though there are some decent ones.

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Well, I guess it depends on your point of view. I own several headphones, from $250 to $550 USD, by companies like Sony and Ultrasone. To me, those are just regular headphones. Most headphones below that are crap, though there are some decent ones.

 I agree with you for the most part.  Most of them are regular headphones. 

Out of all the sub $1000 headphones those AKG's are the best I have ever heard. (especially for flat frequency response, which is one of the requirements I was looking for)

 

Perhaps "Extreme" high quality is not as accurate for them as the ones you linked to be fair, as I guess "super" high quality would be more accurate lol. However, regular headphones they are not.

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Very tempting...hmm. Still waiting in line for the CLR...damn waiting lists.

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Here's what I'm using with Helix:

 

Studio—ADAM P22A and Mackie HR824 monitors

Stage—One or two L2ts, depending on the venue's size

Headphones—Sennheiser HD600 (flat, very detailed, sound great, comfortable for long sessions, and you can replace parts easily)

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From all I've heard read, the Yamaha DXR10 is a sweet-spot in terms of tone, price, and portability.  That's next on my list.  If money were no object, I'd be looking at a CLR Neo wedge.  But for me, money is always an object...

 

There will also be times, I imagine, when I'll prefer a little power amp (maybe an EHX Magnum 44 will do) and a traditional 1x12" cab.

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I am currently a Fractal Axefx user. I love my rig and have pretty much hit the finish line for tone... however, compact and portability are issues I always look out for. Maybe the Helix would be a great addition to the arsenal!

 

The one thing that I have pretty much settled upon for my FRFR solution is XiTone cabs! There are many great cabs for model era including CLR, Matrix, K series, and Mission... But for me and many others in the Axefx community, XiTone is the closest thing to a real "cab in the room" sound one can get! Mick from XiTone has made a practically bulletproof series of cabs that can model any of the amps n cabs Fractal or Kemper provide with ease and tremendous power! Powered, passive, fully FRFR, as a regular cab, or a combination of both his cabs are incredible.

 

I'm sure on these forums the line6 FRFR sound reinforcement products will be featured heavily, and rightfully so. Just know that if devices like Helix are new to you there are hundreds of people that have spent years studying and trying out all FRFR options. For me Xitone is the one...

post-2266159-0-83283400-1440311356_thumb.jpg

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Here's what I'm using with Helix:

 

Studio—ADAM P22A and Mackie HR824 monitors

Stage—One or two L2ts, depending on the venue's size

Headphones—Sennheiser HD600 (flat, very detailed, sound great, comfortable for long sessions, and you can replace parts easily)

Thanks for posting this. It's great to get a starting point for what gear to use from someone who has thoroughly tested it. Question: When creating patches, how much tweaking do you have to do when going from your monitors to your phones or to your L2's? One of the things that always bothered me with HD500 and DT was having completely different patches (set lists) for the DT, and for recording direct, and for direct to the board, and for use with my L2's. I'm hoping Helix with a set up like yours means one patch for all, but with the sound and feel of my DT.

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Question: When creating patches, how much tweaking do you have to do when going from your monitors to your phones or to your L2's?

 

Almost none, but that probably has more to do with both the L2s and Sennheisers being really flat. I might tweak the Global EQ, but that's generally to compensate for room modes.

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