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mikejones5

in your opinion....which line 6 amp?

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My last line 6 amp was purchased quite a long time ago (spider II half stack) and now im in the market for a new amp. I generally love what line 6 is capable of.

 

There's many line 6 amps (dt 25/50, flex tone, vetta, hd147 etc) and I was curious to know which (even counting ones I haven't mentioned) is the "holy grail" in terms of tone/sound and features?

 

Im totally willing to hunt down a discontinued amp if need be.

 

My primary uses will include everything but live performance (so im not concerned with loudness). Id love something that sounds great for recording for sure.

 

Im open to your opinions so let me have them please

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for me that's pretty easy.  HD500X ($500) or if you have the money, wait for the new Helix. ($1500).  Both will require a decent powered speaker (or a pair for true stereo) but these are you best bets for recording.

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/Helix

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PODHD500X

 

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/928101-REG/alto_truesonic_ts110a_ts110a_active_600_watt.html

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I would turn the time back to get a vetta 2...

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DT50 is the best tone amp Line 6 has ever made. DT25 is a close second....Next, would be the the first version Spider Valve....However, if you have a modified SV with an SVPre that will give a DT a run for its money on Class AB type tones....Spider Valve MK2 is ok....kinda mediocre IMHO....Flextone III XL is a good utility amp...Still have all 5 of these and that that is how I rank them.

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DT50 is the best tone amp Line 6 has ever made. DT25 is a close second....Next, would be the the first version Spider Valve....However, if you have a modified SV with an SVPre that will give a DT a run for its money on Class AB type tones....Spider Valve MK2 is ok....kinda mediocre IMHO....Flextone III XL is a good utility amp...Still have all 5 of these and that that is how I rank them.

 

I've got to agree. The DT50 has great tone. I love the sound of it and the variety of configurations it offers. I'm only using 1 DT25 Ext. Cab too. To keep things in perspective, I don't have the kind of experience with amp as spaceatl.

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My line6 amps in the past were: AxSys, Vetta I and II, Spider ValveII and DT50.

 

For pure tone, you can't beat the DT, and with PODHD500X it is probably the most feature rich.  For just pure guitar tone, it's by far the best.

 

My second favorite was the Vetta.  Feature list was pretty amazing.  It would do stereo that the DT won't without two amps.  The online edit program was the best LIne6 has made so far.  It could sound amazing but you really needed to learn how to tweak, as you could also make it sound like crap pretty easy.  The loudest Line6 amp I've ever owned!

 

So, my first choice would be the DT50/HD500x combination.  I'm nostalgic about my vetta...but then again I'm nostalgic about an old Chevy Vega that I used to have.  

 

If Stereo is a must for you then you might lean towards the Vetta just in terms of convenience.  But I'd still rather have a PODHD500 FRFR stereo rather than the Vetta.

 

The Axsys was great for it's time, but was 1st generation stuff.  I wouldn't waste my time trying to find one now.

 

I never really fell in love with the Spider Valve.  I gigged with it a couple of times and got rid of it.  I thought it actually worked best as a power amp for my PODXTL.  I really didn't like the pre-amp in it, especially for mid gain stuff.  For clean or hi-gain it was fine.  I got rid of it as soon as the DT50 came along and haven't looked back.

 

I may be wrong but I think HD147, DuoVerb and Flextone, are all the same generation of modelling that was in the Vetta.  HD147 just had a different natural EQ curve that you could easily comp with the Vetta II.  The Duo and Flex were just Vetta's with less options.

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DT50 is the best tone amp Line 6 has ever made. DT25 is a close second....Next, would be the the first version Spider Valve....However, if you have a modified SV with an SVPre that will give a DT a run for its money on Class AB type tones....Spider Valve MK2 is ok....kinda mediocre IMHO....Flextone III XL is a good utility amp...Still have all 5 of these and that that is how I rank them.

 

Hi @spaceatl, I have both the DT50H and DT25H.  I have not done extensive listening tests, but ...

 

I started with the DT50H but for size and weight savings I got a DT25H.  I use the DT w/ POD HD500 & L6link, & Variax.

 

Could you say more about the sound difference between the DT50 and DT25? 

 

Thanks!

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I have tried quite a few Line 6 amps.  I ended up purchasing two, a Vetta II Combo and the DT25 Head w/ 1x12 extension cab.  I still own both.  The DT25 can definitely out-perform the Vetta II when it comes to tone but I love both amps.

 

I've recently tried my HD500X into a powered PA speaker and I'm really enjoying the experience there as well.

 

I'm waiting on my Helix to arrive so I can figure out the optimum amp or PA solution for it.

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Hi @spaceatl, I have both the DT50H and DT25H.  I have not done extensive listening tests, but ...

 

I started with the DT50H but for size and weight savings I got a DT25H.  I use the DT w/ POD HD500 & L6link, & Variax.

 

Could you say more about the sound difference between the DT50 and DT25? 

 

Thanks!

 

I can't speak for spaceatl but but I think it would be safe to say the DT25 is a worthy opponent to the DT50. I use my DT50HD in 25w mode most of the time and I think it sounds amazing. I'm sure if I had the DT25 instead of the 50 I would be happy as well.

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DT25 is awesome, very good tones. You can customize the onboard amp models from the various 'HD' amp model preamps, and trick them out with power configurations to get some really gnarly sound. It's still a heavy beast, but enough lighter than the DT50's to make a difference. The lower wattage also makes it easier to get nice tube breakup without bleeding ears volumes. Works really well linked to an HD500/500x too. I use mine a fair bit with analog pedals too, does a great job there.

 

Since you can technically make 8 different stand alone amp configurations, it's got a lot going on. It has no onboard FX, which I prefer.

 

That being said, the Helix is going to take things to a whole other level, and unfortunately isn't going to link to the DT amps in the same way as the HD500 did. You can still link them, and with some work arounds, I think Helix + DT25 will still be a pretty awesome rig.

 

The main issue being, when you link an HD500 to a DT25 / DT50, you are entering into 'combo poweramp' (or stack poweramp mode) which disables the mic sims. Typically, when I use this rig, I also use the 'pre' only versions of the amp models.

 

In terms of recording with that rig, the DT25/DT50 has XLR out with cabinet emulation. You can customize which mic model is the default by using a MIDI editor.

 

You can also knock it down to 12 watts in low volume mode.

 

That being said, again, Helix.. The DT25/DT50 amps are inherently tied to the HD amp models, because there is no analog preamp - the preamps on the DT series are all digital amp models. You can choose 'no amp model' when using MIDI to trick out the DT, and that option is likely going to come in very useful for people who want to use their DT amps with their new Helix. The main issue, is that with Helix when L6Linked to the DT25/DT50, it's just going to send either Left, Right or mono summed Left/Right. I don't know if you will be able to tell the L6Link that you only want the signal to include amp and cab modeling, but not mic modeling.

 

What is not yet established is how the DT and Helix will interact when they are linked like this. When you link the HD500 to the DT, it's a two-way connection, Turn a knob on the DT, and it adjusts on screen on the HD500. I don't think the Helix will do this. So, the question being: will the Helix bypass the onboard DT amp / preamp models when linked? If so, since the Helix-DT link does not support changing the power amp topology, which power amp settings are used?

 

That is where (in theory) the Helix + L6Link + DT25/DT50 could get really interesting - use MIDI to set up one of the 8 amp slots on the DT to be no amp model / no cab model / no mic model. At this point, you are still able to configure the default power settings - class A, pentode, triode, etc. The Bogner power amp settings are always separate from the L6 preamp / amp model settings. They are paired, but can be edited.

 

I'd be curious then to see what it sounds like. In theory, you should be tapping the Helix signal into the all analog Bogner power amp, without forcing the Helix 'HX' amp / cab / mic models to be processed through the HD amp / cab / mic models.

 

This also opens up some doors to people who are using L2/L3 speakers AND using DT amps. Currently, when linking a DT + HD500 + L2 / L3, the Line6 manual says the DT has to be first in the L6Link sequence (IE, HD500->DT25->L2t). The problem with that is the HD500 then defaults to 'combo poweramp' or 'stack poweramp', and disables the mic sims. So at that point, the only 'direct' XLR signal with mic + cab modeling, is the XLR out from the back of the DT amp. This means the L2 is also not getting a 'FRFR' signal; since it's not studio / direct.

 

Which brings us to linking Helix + DT + L2/L3. In theory, with Helix, it should support 'FRFR', since there are no 'output modes'. The Link connection doesn't force the output mode, so you should be able to get some awesome tone, with the DT as the backline, and the L2/L3 as a floor monitor. You could sum them both to mono, while still being able to send stereo to the FOH or to the mixer/recording, without needing two DT amps to do it.

 

A compromise, since the Link functionality between the DT-HD500 has some cool other options, in terms of the signal content being sent down the link (wet, dry, stereo, mono, etc.)

 

You can also find some nice deals on used and price dropped DT amps these days, for a whole lot less than what they used to cost!

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HD500X headphone out into a HD147 head stereo effect loop RETURN only, through a 4x12 JCM900 4x12 cabinet.  Absolutely freaking magical.  In stereo.  Great at any volume. You can substitute an older Flextone II head (black and red); it is also a 300-watt stereo head. Early ones are even USA-made and can be found all over for less than $200.  HD147 requires a dummy jack (one end of a guitar cable) in the front jack when used this way, the Flextone II does not. LOVE IT!

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POD HD500 or HDPro with DT50. If you play different styles, best solution, and if you buy used also cheap. I would prefer the HD Pro, standing on the DT50, for ergonomical reasons.

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Going with the LINE 6 - POD HD PRO RACK UNIT, is a great idea. Some prefer to use the LINE 6 - POD HD (Bean Format) with the DT 25/50 HD as it's less gear to move etc. Having compared the LINE 6 POD HD PRO RACK UNIT & POD HD PRO X RACK UNITS in live performance situations, it becomes apples to apples, when deciding which tones will get you through your live gig, both are more than up to the job. If, however you are a studio tone chaser, the extra processing power of the HD X, might be an answer. For my needs, I didn't end up purchasing either of those two units. I went with the LINE 6 POD X3 PRO RACK UNIT, I use it to record most of my bands songwriting. Even in 2018, it's still a powerhouse, live or studio!

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On 7/11/2016 at 6:15 PM, TravDaddy said:

HD500X headphone out into a HD147 head stereo effect loop RETURN only, through a 4x12 JCM900 4x12 cabinet.  Absolutely freaking magical.  In stereo.  Great at any volume. You can substitute an older Flextone II head (black and red); it is also a 300-watt stereo head. Early ones are even USA-made and can be found all over for less than $200.  HD147 requires a dummy jack (one end of a guitar cable) in the front jack when used this way, the Flextone II does not. LOVE IT!

I have an HD147 and was thinking about picking up a used HD500X.   Are you tweaking patches for this setup?    How do you have the HD147 setup?   

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davisdc50,

 

  I just happened to pull out my HD147 and HD500 this weekend! (I've snagged a lot of gear since that post...) YES! Absolutely, I am tweaking patches for this set-up. The way I run it requires ZERO set-up on the HD147.

 

   I run the guitar into the HD500's "Guitar In" and (believe it or not) a stereo 1/4" to two mono 1/4" (a Y-cable) out of the HD500's "Headphone Out" to the HD147's effects loop stereo L/R "RETURN" only.  You have to use a dummy plug in the front of the HD147 (or just one end of a guitar cable) or you won't hear anything. Now EVERYTHING runs through the HD500. I think the HD147 Master Volume is the only thing that will respond.

 

    Hooking it up this way bypasses the HD147's pre-amp and goes straight to the power amp section, so be CAREFUL with the volume (both on HD147 and HD500) or you will have a "Back to the Future" moment. Ha!  Naturally, you won't have access to any of the HD147's modeled amps or effects when hooking it up this way, but you have waaay more in the HD500 anyway. Be sure to turn off the cab sims in the HD500 rigs or it'll sound wonky. It doesn't seem as bad on the clean settings, but really muffles the sound on the dirt settings. 

 

   I usually start of with the noise gate in the first block of the HD500 and then pick a modeled amp (the versions with "pre" at the end of the name sound a little better to me) and then add the stereo effects afterwards. Sounds fantastic and only takes a few minutes to get a smoking tone. The absolute best-guide-in-the-world for making heavy/metal tones on the HD500 is available from a power-user named "MeAmBobbo". Look for his free guide on the Internet and consider throwing him a couple of dollars if you like it. 

 

   You can use the HD147 this way for any of the current rackmount or floorboard-based modeling rigs too. Heck, it even works with the "bean" series PODs. I occasionally run my Desktop HD POD through the HD147 as well. The Line 6 stuff is extremely versatile in how you can use it. Many of the stock presets sound amazing if you simply turn off the cab sims and tweak the EQ to your liking. When you go shopping for a used HD500(X), check to see if the model pack upgrade has been done - it's a $100 package from Line 6. If you have the unit powered up in front of you, press and hold the "View" button until the menu screen pops up. Go to page 12/12, all the way to the right, with the circle button and it will tell you if model packs have been installed. I loaded mine up and it says: "Standard Model Set", "HD Metal Pack", "HD Vintage Pack" and "HD Bass Pack." If it doesn't have the upgrades, Line 6 puts them on sale every now and then. Hope this helped!

 

             Have fun and good luck!  Happy hunting!!  TravDaddy

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Very cool ideas! Do you know how this would work with a DUOVERB HD & POD X3 PRO RACK UNIT? 

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jaysen99,

 

I haven't played around with a Duoverb HD, but from reading up on the specs (100-watt stereo power amp) - I'd say, "yeah, should work the same way." I don't know if you'll need a dummy plug in the front of the amp. I used to run it into my old Flextone II head without a dummy plug and it worked great. Funny part was that the Flextone II head had a single input for the stereo loop RETURN. But, it was a stereo jack, so I used the same y-cable and simply reversed it. The two mono ends went to the output of the HD500 and the TRS (stereo plug) end went into the loop RETURN on the Flextone II head. I have also run a similar set-up with my X3 bean with fantastic results. Remember to turn off the cab sims!

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Thanks for getting back to me TravDaddy! 

 

I also have a HD147 so I might try your instructions with that amp and the POD X3 (bean) or POD X3 PRO RACK UNIT. Just so I can follow your specs exactly.

The LINE 6 DuoVERB 100 HD is a strange beast, a loud amp with no gain channel! I've had it for several years now, only used it a few times to record crystal clear guitar tracks, which it does beautifully and excellent bass tracks with POD X3 (Bean) lined in front of it. So far the best equipment i've used in its effects loop is an old

M~AUDIO - BLACK BOX - Set Top Unit, it's the only thing that blocks out the DuoVERB preamp hooked up thru the effects loop, when I tried the POD X3 (bean) in the effects loop, all the controls on the X3 (bean) and all the controls DuoVERB HD are live and competing with each other! Oh well, the fun of trying out all experimental situations! 

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