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panaman

how long since you last switched off your pod (world record attempt)

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with the lack of a power switch my hd 500 has been running straight for 3 years and a little over a month now, except for the occasional restart after flashing, 1139 days and counting.

i see a world record in the making. are there any contenders?

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1. this thing is like a computer -- it needs to reboot once in awhile. 

2. I am a performer. My Pod gets unplugged because I am always taking it somewhere. 

3. The weather. A tornado rips by. Knocks the power out for a few days. The unit is officially powered down. 

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I am going to repeat the first line: 

this thing is like a computer -- it needs to reboot once in awhile. 

 

 

And I would like to know where you live that you power has not gone out once in three years. Nor have you had a single electrical storm, where it would be recommended to be unplugged. 

 

 

But, in the spirit of playing the 'game', you are correct, no contest. 

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When you say "running straight", I assume you're saying you haven't powered down the unit, right?

 

Or are you calcuating all the times you've had it on and have had to actually turn it off?

 

If paragraph one is true then you must have had to "power cycle" the device after any upgrades

 

If paragraph two is true then it doesn't count.

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My calculations put the cost of electricity running your POD HD500 for all this time somewhere between $650-$1500. This is why I would never leave any device running when it's not in use. 

 

This doesn't include the effect on the environment this waste causes. 

 

Congrats! You win! 

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My calculations put the cost of electricity running your POD HD500 for all this time somewhere between $650-$1500. This is why I would never leave any device running when it's not in use.

 

This doesn't include the effect on the environment this waste causes.

 

Congrats! You win!

Your calculator is way way off....

 

13 watts @ 12 cents per Kw 247 is going to be around $14 per year...

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Your calculator is way way off....

 

13 watts @ 12 cents per Kw 247 is going to be around $14 per year...

 

Yep... And $0.12/kWh is actually quite higher than the actual electric rate in many parts of the country. I don't even think I pay $1500 for my electric bill for the entire year.

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Your calculator is way way off....

 

13 watts @ 12 cents per Kw 247 is going to be around $14 per year...

I stand corrected. My math was based on the adapter and not the device...rookie mistake.

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Maybe it's me, but I don't quite understand how leaving a device turned on 24/7 when it's not in use most of that time, could possibly benefit anything. Hell, even if you're a 6 hrs-a-day player, it will spend the other 18 just sitting there sucking up power and getting hot. Heat is what ultimately wrecks electronics. Would you constantly flush a toilet just because you could?

 

$15 or $1500...whatever the cost is, why give those theives the money if you don't have to? If I'm not using it...it's off.

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Actually, there is a sound technical argument for leaving some devices on. While heat does some wear a bit on some components, steady constant temperature does much less to little wear at all depending on the components. Thermal Cycling actually does the most damage in regards to thermal stress and this happens with any heat generating electronic device that is cycled off and on in intervals. The expansion and contraction wears things out faster than just leaving it on. This is a very common practice for PC workstations and servers. Thermal stress kills CPUs much faster.

 

In terms of audio, I know this to be a somewhat common practice in regards to older and expensive analog audio gear like Harrison consoles, but in terms of a digital device like the HD, I think we would have to look at the datasheet on the DSP to see how the lifetime rating is quantified...Likely there would be something in there about thermal stress to give an idea of how it might translate to how many ON OFF cycles there might be...Usually, chips have a MTBF rating and thermal cycling is a part of that. However, in the HD case you would actually need to know what the real core temp is to predict if thermal cycling would be an issue...

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Actually, there is a sound technical argument for leaving some devices on. While heat does some wear a bit on some components, steady constant temperature does much less to little wear at all depending on the components. Thermal Cycling actually does the most damage in regards to thermal stress and this happens with any heat generating electronic device that is cycled off and on in intervals. The expansion and contraction wears things out faster than just leaving it on. This is a very common practice for PC workstations and servers. Thermal stress kills CPUs much faster.

 

In terms of audio, I know this to be a somewhat common practice in regards to older and expensive analog audio gear like Harrison consoles, but in terms of a digital device like the HD, I think we would have to look at the datasheet on the DSP to see how the lifetime rating is quantified...Likely there would be something in there about thermal stress to give an idea of how it might translate to how many ON OFF cycles there might be...Usually, chips have a MTBF rating and thermal cycling is a part of that. However, in the HD case you would actually need to know what the real core temp is to predict if thermal cycling would be an issue...

 

Fair enough...maybe cycling is worse, but whatever the finite number of cycles is, I seriously doubt I'll ever get there. I suspect that I (and probably the vast majority of users) will have replaced the 500X with something else long before we get to using up number ON/OFF cycles. I can't ever recall having hit that particular brick wall with any piece of gear (with the exception of suddenly deceased power tubes)...hell, I still have a KORG rack-mount tuner that's over 20 years old. God knows how many power cycles that thing has seen.

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 I suspect that I (and probably the vast majority of users) will have replaced the 500X with something else long before we get to using up number ON/OFF cycles. 

 

My fear is that since my Pod is so computer dependent, that it will need replaced because of the other computer technology leaving it behind. 

I mean, is L6 going to release drivers and EDIT software for Windows 27? 

I certainly intend on using this 'rig' as long as possible, the way I did my last rig, which lasted me 20+ years and was replaced do to changing musical situations, not breakage. 

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$15 or $1500...whatever the cost is, why give those theives the money if you don't have to? If I'm not using it...it's off.

 

Thieves? I don't work for the power company or own stock in any, but I can tell you I would not want to live without electricity and at my age, I'm not interested in building any of the electric generating ideas I have read about in my OLD copies of Mother Earth News.

 

Cable TV companies are a different story.

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Thieves? I don't work for the power company or own stock in any, but I can tell you I would not want to live without electricity and at my age, I'm not interested in building any of the electric generating ideas I have read about in my OLD copies of Mother Earth News.

 

Cable TV companies are a different story.

Yes, thieves. Nobody wants to live without electricity...however, merely having a desire for something doesn't mean that one deserves to be robbed blind once a month. I'd shop around, but alas there's only one game in town. Haven't seen a door-to-door electricity salesman in these parts for years...;).

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Yes, thieves. Everybody wants electricity...however, that desire does little to prevent me from getting robbed blind once a month. I'd shop around, but there's only one game in town. Haven't seen a door-to-door electricity salesman in these pays for years... ;)

 

I hope I don't sound confrontational, because it is not my intent whatsoever. I'm all in favor of Tesla's vision of free electricity for the world. Maybe you're right about the monopoly, but when I loose electricity due to a storm or natural disaster, I am very grateful that a group of trained professionals is working 24/7 to restore my electricity for 12 cents a kWh. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm guessing two months without electrical power, most folks would gladly pay double that amount to restore their twentieth century life style. 

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I hope I don't sound confrontational, because it is not my intent whatsoever. I'm all in favor of Tesla's vision of free electricity for the world. Maybe you're right about the monopoly, but when I loose electricity due to a storm or natural disaster, I am very grateful that a group of trained professionals is working 24/7 to restore my electricity for 12 cents a kWh. I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm guessing two months without electrical power, most folks would gladly pay double that amount to restore their twentieth century life style.

No worries...it's just a discussion.

 

I don't expect free electricity. Services cost money. However, we could all be paying pennies on the dollar if we made more use of nuclear power, as plenty of other industrialized nations do. But we've decided that coal is more fun...and the rea$on i$ obviou$. So be it.

 

And the fact that desperate people would be willing to overpay for the return of a service that has become a necessity of modern life doesn't prove a blessed thing. Desperation makes people to do all sorts of things...often tending towards the ugly. I was out for 27 days when Sandy blew through here 3 years ago. Not fun (on the bright side, I discovered I can still read ;) ). Any prolonged disruption of the grid, and little old ladies will be beating each other to death over the last box of Cheerios at Stop-n-Shop. Don't think it ain't possible.

 

Nor does it change the fact that I pay well above the national average here in the People's Republic of NY. What costs you 12 cents, costs me just under 20. And it's always a monopoly. I've never met anyone who had a choice of power companies. You either pay the local Lord, or you sit in the dark.

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Nuclear isn't that cheap - it is subsidised in the UK: we the public have to "top-up" the price paid to the nuclear station to double the current open market rate just to get somebody to build and run a station for 35 years, which according to reports means that we will pay $17B in support (additional to what is honestly earned) for a power station that only cost $16B to build.

 

Thanks to our "National Grid" we do have a choice of Suppliers, the Big Six of which are being being criticised for over-charging according to our Competition and Markets Authority because "choice" just means choice of who you give your meter reading to so that they can charge you too much anyway!

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Nuclear isn't that cheap - it is subsidised in the UK: we the public have to "top-up" the price paid to the nuclear station to double the current open market rate just to get somebody to build and run a station for 35 years, which according to reports means that we will pay $17B in support (additional to what is honestly earned) for a power station that only cost $16B to build.

 

Thanks to our "National Grid" we do have a choice of Suppliers, the Big Six of which are being being criticised for over-charging according to our Competition and Markets Authority because "choice" just means choice of who you give your meter reading to so that they can charge you too much anyway!

 

In the end it's all a game...trouble is, there will only be one winning team, now and forever. And we're not on it...

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I accidentally left mine on overnight one day last week. That's about the longest mine has ever been on continuously.

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What's the shortest time someone had theirs on? I have mine plugged into a power strip with a switch, and while reaching to turn it on, my wobbly chair wobbled, made my finger hit the switch. The chair wobbled again, forcing my finger to hit the switch again. All this took 392ms.

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This is the strangest thread I've seen on this forum...

If you were to leave the looper playing in a forest... ;)

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with the lack of a power switch my hd 500 has been running straight for 3 years and a little over a month now

 

Did you know that unplugging the power cord switches it off? :o

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glad to see some humour still lingering on the forums, even though it appears to be a serious issue for the conservationist faction. powering up the pod is the new smoking. i like to smoke. what you save in electricity in a year i smoke away everyday.

and thats just the cigatettes.

these health and environmental apostels should be declared a dangerous cult and made illegal.

and i quote: $15 or $1500...whatever the cost is

but seriously, i would have expected this to be a more common practice,

power cycling isnt so great for electrical devices.

- inrush current:

ever noticed how sparks fly and the little crunch sound when
plugging the adaptor into mains (220v here)? its clearly not designed for that
kind of stress. on the pod side, when all the caps are discharged (empty) the
onboard voltage regulators are challenged. i do in home repair service for tvs

on a daily and professional basis. why is it 90% of all failures happen when
powering up and usually involve the cheapest power strips with worst switching
characteristics.  you get to save tens of bucks but end up paying hundreds for

the repair. if you really have to, spend a little more on the strip, and dont falter
throwing that switch decidedly to avoid sparking. both switching on or off.

- thermal: chips used to come with pins on the sides. when thermally expanding
they were flexible enough to buffer some of the strain, but would work their way
out of the soldering joints eventually and just sit on top without making
contact. easily fixed by resoldering.
these days with the packages getting ever smaller, there is not enough room for

a pinout on the sides, and ever higher frequencies cause issues with parallel pins
and length of routing, the surface mounted packages now have their contacts on
the bottom and are basically a grid of little soldering pearls. since taking the
lead out of the tin solder it is not as soft and flexible as it used to be and
breaks a lot sooner. now whats gonna happen if the chip has a different thermal
expansion coefficient to that of the board. which it inevitably does. with minute temp deviation in production (who wants that monday morning 1st production board) you could see major variations in lifetime expectancy

and resoldering is tricky even with expensive special hotair equipment.

 

- electrical

while voltages are building up and stabilizing, components can enter into undefined states, latch up, do weird things.

this is countered by power on reset circuits. all depends on how much attention was paid in the designing process, and if the pod was made to be switched off at all.

 

 

on the down side, caps will dry out from heat over time.they can also start
leaking, where the electrolyte can cause shorts and being acidic can eat away on
copper. caps are not what they used to be. still, especially with older gear, once up and running it will probably run a lot longer if kept turned on. it coulf be argued putting it on an empty patch would cause the dsp to run cooler than on a dual path with all slots occupied.

 

 

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i need to add i fully expect my pod to last for many years to come. like most of my other gear which i tend to keep on also.

i`m not a problem customer.

 

the pod is a computer, but not a windows pc. i havent noticed it slowing down or crashing after changing patches multiple times. there are no tsr programs or badly programmed apps for it (except edit, which is run on the pc), the pod does not have to be restarted ever except after flashing

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ok, this is the dumbest thread ever but you got me.  Yes you do only have so many power cycles before it does damage but that number is extremely large.  Yes in some cases things break.  If a power cycle pushes it over the edge then it was close to breaking for some other reason.

 

Let's turn off the PODs and kill this thread.

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helix costs 3 times more than hd, hoping helix will be 3 times more reliable than hd :)

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glad to see some humour still lingering on the forums, even though it appears to be a serious issue for the conservationist faction. powering up the pod is the new smoking. i like to smoke. what you save in electricity in a year i smoke away everyday.

and thats just the cigatettes.

these health and environmental apostels should be declared a dangerous cult and made illegal.

and i quote: $15 or $1500...whatever the cost is

 

Just so we're all on the same page here. ..

 

I'm neither an environmental apostle, nor a conservationist. Frankly, I could care less, and have never given so much as a moment's thought to my "carbon footprint". And the only agenda I have is not wasting money, be it a small amount, or a large one (especially when the beneficiary of my forced largess is some utility company's CEO and his annual 7-figure bonus)...which was made painfully obvious by the second half of the sentence you quoted.

 

FWIW, I'm not a big fan of seat belt or helmet laws either...and as for the society-wide, relentless tobacco shaming, that's asinine too. We tried the same thing with booze nearly a century ago, and all that accomplished was making Canadian distillers rich, and giving Al Capone a job. Personally, my favorite part about all the tobacco BS, is that the same government that professes to care so much about my health, is still prefectly happy to collect the perpetually increasing tax revenue that tobacco products generate. I'm sure that it's financing the "greater good" and all, and not $20K toilet seats at some government facility...but I digress.

 

So smoke if you got 'em, doesn't bother me. ;)

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Cruisinon2 so far has the lead in the "Grumpy Old Man" category.

 

Whoo hoo! I finally won something... ;)

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Cruisinon2 so far has the lead in the "Grumpy Old Man" category.

 

Didn't you post this about two posts before the above quoted one?

 

"Let's turn off the PODs and kill this thread."

 

Yet you just couldn't resist doing some schoolyard namecalling. You now take the lead in the "undetermined age, but probably young and full of themselves, hypocrite" category.

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Cruisinon2 took it the way it was meant, as a joke.  btw - I'm 55 and usually have the lead in the "Grumpy Old Man" category.

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I turn it off because when creating/modifing patches, after saving, there is a bug. It only gets solved after rebooting.

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I turn it off because when creating/modifing patches, after saving, there is a bug. It only gets solved after rebooting.

 

Well, that shouldn't be happening... Are you using the latest firmware?

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