Self tuners on JTVs.

[kenmac1]

I'm sure most guitarists are aware of the system Gibson guitars have pretty well pioneered, utilising motorised tuning keys, which will automatically tune a guitar in a couple of seconds.

Does anyone know of a system like this that can be fitted to the JTV guitars at all?  I assume you could get the Gibson set up fitted to a 59 model, but I have two 69s and an 89F, so I am not sure if a similar system is available to fit those.  (Yes I realise it would be pointless fitting one to the 89F with the lockers in place, but I use the 69s far more than the 89 anyhow).

My reason is that a lot of the time the HD500X does not recognise the string that is being struck to tune it, and it can be impossible to tune by ear in a noisy venue, so a system like this should be a fantastic addition to the JTVs, as it would ensure we are always spot on in tune, and therefore the alternate tunings (for those who use them) within the digital realm would also be accurate (assuming the intonation has been sorted.)

Let me know what is out there guys.   I assume someone like Ibanez will soon jump onto the idea, and since the headstock / tuner spacings of the JTVs looks to be much the same, they may retrofit.

[jandrio]

http://line6.com/support/topic/3980-anybody-fitted-mechanical-auto-tune-on-a-jtv69s/

 

the tronical C1 fits on JTV-69.

[dspellman]

There is a Tronical version that will fit the guitar, I believe, but you may be a bit disappointed with it. Check the Gibson forums at MLP (MyLesPaul) before buying one.

 

I don't have an issue with standard tuners recognizing what note is being struck (and this includes the one on the HD500).

 

However, users have reported that the Tronical is easily confused in a noisy (as in gigging) environment, and in several cases they've been unable to tune at all under those circumstances. The unit can also be a bit delicate, especially if you try to use it manually under the wrong conditions.

[jandrio]

...

However, users have reported that the Tronical is easily confused in a noisy (as in gigging) environment, and in several cases they've been unable to tune at all under those circumstances. The unit can also be a bit delicate, especially if you try to use it manually under the wrong conditions.

...

cld u pls post related links?

[stevekc]

 

 

cld u pls post related links?

 

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/gibson-les-pauls/304959-tronical-min-etune.html

 

Ive recently removed my Tronical C1 set from my JTV-69, and went with Hipshots.

 

The Tronicals are very fragile, and the user interface was a bit arcane for my principal goal - of "instant alternate tunings for slide guitar, and if a string breaks - you are rather dead - and in Manual tuning operation,  its too easy to destroy the $40 servo tuner if you you over torque the tuning peg.

 

They end up being more gimmick conversation piece, than a tool I can use. 

 

I found it easier and more reliable to use a quality set of locking tuners (Hipshot Staggered height Tuners), maintain a well lubricated nut ( Big Bends Nut sauce lube or the new new Planet Waves clone, or dry Ivory Soap flakes)  - less headache, more reliability   

[dspellman]

cld u pls post related links?

 

Suggest you search at My Les Paul (dot com). First-hand accounts (actual owners) involving 2014 and 2015 models as supplied on new Les Pauls (MinETune and G-Force searches will find them for you).  If I can dredge them up this evening or tomorrow, I'll post them for you.

 

I have no axe to grind and don't own any of the units; most of my working guitars, including a pair of JTV-89Fs have Floyd Rose' on them, and I imagine it would be a bit disastrous to have the thing accidentally activated while the locking nut is clamped down <G>. Alternate tunings can be handled with much greater range (and without producing some too-tight strings and some too-loose strings) with the Variax electronics. so the Tronical gizmo wouldn't be particularly useful for me.

[dspellman]

Worth noting that Gibson itself has not pioneered these systems, but that Henry J has glommed onto this kind of system as developed by others a couple of times over the past 20+ years.

 

One such is the Transperformance bridge (and the Gibson Transperformance guitar featuring this system). The basic idea is the same, with a pickup "listening" for the correct tuning as motors tighten or loosen strings. In this case, however, the motors are in the bridge, the system costs about $3500 (in 1995) not including the guitar, and there's a huge rout chewing about half the wood out of a Les Paul body for installation.

 

The routs happening below are for the control touchpad and monitor. In addition, most of the rear bottom of the guitar is routed out to accommodate the various electronics and motors. None other than Jimmy Page was paid to promote it, and for a while he used it onstage to play a song that involved him strumming a chord and then changing the tuning as the chord rang out. The top on this guitar is a photo top.

 

 

 

 

 

In about 2005 (I believe -- maybe 2007?), Tronical (then called PowerTune) showed up at NAMM with a self-tuning system for both 3+3 and inline (Fender) tuners. This so excited Henry and Gibson execs that they executed an exclusive agreement with PowerTune before the show opened and made the announcement when the show DID open that Gibson (and only Gibson) would be featuring this technology on upcoming guitars. This led to the Robot guitars and the Dark Star (whatever it was called) guitar that arrived with a bleached-white case and later to the Dust Tiger and Firebird X introductions.

 

 

I'm sure most guitarists are aware of the system Gibson guitars have pretty well pioneered, utilising motorised tuning keys, which will automatically tune a guitar in a couple of seconds.

[kenmac1]

http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/gibson-les-pauls/304959-tronical-min-etune.html

 

Ive recently removed my Tronical C1 set from my JTV-69, and went with Hipshots.

 

The Tronicals are very fragile, and the user interface was a bit arcane for my principal goal - of "instant alternate tunings for slide guitar, and if a string breaks - you are rather dead - and in Manual tuning operation,  its too easy to destroy the $40 servo tuner if you you over torque the tuning peg.

 

They end up being more gimmick conversation piece, than a tool I can use. 

 

I found it easier and more reliable to use a quality set of locking tuners (Hipshot Staggered height Tuners), maintain a well lubricated nut ( Big Bends Nut sauce lube or the new new Planet Waves clone, or dry Ivory Soap flakes)  - less headache, more reliability   

If your tronicals are still in working order, and you want to sell them, I might be interested.  The video reviews I have seen online look pretty good, but nobody has done a review that covers whether or not they respond well under loud gig conditions.  Someone here stated that they are not too good under those circumstances.   Still, if I could get both 69s tuned before the set, when it is still relatively quiet, I'd be a happy camper, or even take the guitars outside to tune up, or backstage where it is quieter. Then if the tuning in a noisy environment became a problem, I'd just switch to the other 69 or the 89F to finish the set.

I bought a set online a few days ago, (Waiting on delivery, as no Australian distributor is onto these things yet) but I have two JTV69 models and an 89F, so the other 69 cold definitely use a set.   

I do not ever use alternate or open tunings, so to me all I'd need it to do is, get the thing back to standard tuning, preferably while I chatted to the audience for a few seconds as it worked it's magic.

I have major issues with the HD500X often not hearing the notes struck / open strings, this makes tuning with that unit near on impossible.  I have on many occasions had to resort to hitting root five type double stops at low volume with overdrive to use the beating increments to tune the instrument.  Not sure if this is a flaw is the HD500x or a problem with the guitar itself, but all the chords.... do come through loud and clear when played through the amp, so I just fumble through as fast as I can, to get back into the game.  Still to me if I were watching some jackass tune this way on stage I'd think it was pretty slack / unprofessional.  

As much as I love what the Line 6 gear can do, there are still some niggly pain the arse issues, that persist time and again, which simply have to be worked around.

[kenmac1]

Worth noting that Gibson itself has not pioneered these systems, but that Henry J has glommed onto this kind of system as developed by others a couple of times over the past 20+ years.

 

One such is the Transperformance bridge (and the Gibson Transperformance guitar featuring this system). The basic idea is the same, with a pickup "listening" for the correct tuning as motors tighten or loosen strings. In this case, however, the motors are in the bridge, the system costs about $3500 (in 1995) not including the guitar, and there's a huge rout chewing about half the wood out of a Les Paul body for installation.

 

The routs happening below are for the control touchpad and monitor. In addition, most of the rear bottom of the guitar is routed out to accommodate the various electronics and motors. None other than Jimmy Page was paid to promote it, and for a while he used it onstage to play a song that involved him strumming a chord and then changing the tuning as the chord rang out. The top on this guitar is a photo top.

 

 

 

 

 

In about 2005 (I believe -- maybe 2007?), Tronical (then called PowerTune) showed up at NAMM with a self-tuning system for both 3+3 and inline (Fender) tuners. This so excited Henry and Gibson execs that they executed an exclusive agreement with PowerTune before the show opened and made the announcement when the show DID open that Gibson (and only Gibson) would be featuring this technology on upcoming guitars. This led to the Robot guitars and the Dark Star (whatever it was called) guitar that arrived with a bleached-white case and later to the Dust Tiger and Firebird X introductions.

 

Poor choice of words on my behalf regarding Gibson pioneering the system.  What I should have said was something along the lines of, the Robotic tuners they have used on various models, as to this time as far as i am aware, they are really the only major manufacturer who has embraced the idea, and used them as a selling point.

One of my old students had an early Robot Les Paul, and the few times I did play around with it, I liked what it could do, but did think of it as a little gimmicky.   I could see a use for it, but was always content to simply hit the Polytune and get on with it.   I no longer carry external gear (tuners, pedals...) and rely solely on my HD500x for all those things,  I am having issues with the HD500X often failing to hear the notes played, and therefore making tuning impossible, without having to plug either a separate tuner in, or manually tune by ear, I have ordered a set of Tronicals, and hope they might help to get past the problems I am having live.

To me, if I can rely on them to at least bring me back to standard tuning fast enough that I only need to jabber to the audience for a few seconds, then I will be a happy little wannabe pretend rockstar.

[stevekc]

I suspect you'd be happier with that new TC PolytuneClip

http://www.tcelectronic.com/polytune-clip

 

https://youtu.be/nCZ1T3kxknQ

It's a work around for the marginally working tuner in the HD500X My HD500X's Tuner is also really slow

[kenmac1]

I suspect you'd be happier with that new TC PolytuneClip

http://www.tcelectronic.com/polytune-clip

 

https://youtu.be/nCZ1T3kxknQ

It's a work around for the marginally working tuner in the HD500X My HD500X's Tuner is also really slow

G'day Steve, Mine is not slow, it often does not see the notes at all.  I can hit a string over and over without it even registering on the metre, or maybe it will register then simply cut out and lose the note for me, which is the last thing any of us need in a live situation.   

I have a clip-on tuner or two around the place, but have also broken a couple over the years, so I think fitting the self tuning keys are less likely to suffer that fate.

I guess since I am clearly not alone with this problem as you have mentioned, it is something Line 6 would be looking into rectifying (hopefully sooner rather than later).   I'm sure we would not be the only two guys using this gear who find that the tuner on the HD is irresponsive.   It would most likely be a matter of simply looking at what the cause is and creating a download patch to fix it.  If they can see where the problem is, then they can see what the cause of the problem is, and it would follow on that they can then look at the best solution to that problem.  it might be as simple as creating a pre-amp patch that runs pre the tuner to boost the signal so that it hears the notes more clearly?   Just a thought, as I am far from tech, but to me it is a matter of the tuner simply not hearing the notes, so my guess would be to boost the input signal to that tuner a little bit and give it more sound to respond to.    

As working musicians, we should not be put into a position of needing to carry a second separate tuner to gigs, when this HD system is supposed to have a good functioning tuner built in, specifically designed to interact with the Variax guitars.

They are so close to creating the Holy Grail of guitar gear here, but still so far away, and it is silly little things like this, which make the unit so frustrating to those of us who rely on them night after night.  Having a guitar that can emulate a heap of instruments is awesome.   It makes my life a tonne easier than the old school gigs where I used to literally lug a six and 12 string acoustic to each gig, as well as a Mandolin and at least one Electric.   Then there were the various stomp boxes or the multi fx unit on the floor, which did not interact at all with the guitar, so I was jumping back and forth mid song between electric guitars and the acoustic instruments (held on a stand at playing height).   As I said this really is close to the Holy Grail, but it has some annoying little traits that should be so easy to rectify, and seem to get overlooked time and again.

I'd still be keen to buy your tuners if they are in working order mate.   If I hate them, then so be it.   If that is the case, then I guess a clip on tuner is the next unfortunate step in the process of overcoming this problem.

[kenmac1]

I suspect you'd be happier with that new TC PolytuneClip

http://www.tcelectronic.com/polytune-clip

 

https://youtu.be/nCZ1T3kxknQ

It's a work around for the marginally working tuner in the HD500X My HD500X's Tuner is also really slow

I bought the Polytune clip last week, and to be honest I am not sure it is gonna be any better than using the auto tuners anyhow.  It is still reliant upon hearing / feeling the string vibrations through the neck, the same way the Tronicals are, and if it is a loud room, with other vibrations resonating through the neck, then chances are that the Clip may not suffer the same sympathetic vibration issues as the Tronicals.

About to fit my Tronicals now, so I will give them a session with the band tonight, however it is only a rehearsal, so it is not like they will be competing with the background noise of a bar with punters or loud music to contend with.

I'll also take the Poly clip with me and put it on my other JTVs, although I expect that both will work perfectly well under a rehearsal / jam room scenario.  Live at a venue... that might be a different matter entirely.

[jandrio]

...It is still reliant upon hearing / feeling the string vibrations through the neck, the same way the Tronicals are, and if it is a loud room, with other vibrations resonating through the neck, then chances are that the Clip may not suffer the same sympathetic vibration issues as the Tronicals....

 

have u tried using the mags when tuning?

[kenmac1]

Yeah mate, I put the fault down to being in the HD not the guitar itself.   I always tune with the neck pickup by default, it is a habit I got into at a young age, as that pickup hears more of the string vibration than the other middle or bridge pickups can simply because the string vibrates more widely the closer to the centre of it's overall length it is struck.  Hence if the pickup is closer to the middle of the string it has more vibration to identify.   Basic physics, which even a kindergarten kids should be able to understand.  The same goes for when I set up intonation/ harmonics, I use the neck pickup for that exact same reason.

The signal is obviously getting through loud and clear, because if it is not in mute mode, it comes cranking through the amp / PA system, but the HD Tuner has no clue what is going on.  Just a frustrating gremlin inside the otherwise pretty impressive little gadget.

The Clip tuner seems very good, quite stable and does not seem to bounce around at all like many of the tuners on the market.  Did not try the Tronicals the other night, as I got too busy pre rehearsal to get around to fitting them.   So I guess that is a task for today.

Above it should have said "may suffer"  instead of may not suffer...   My bad. but I am sure anyone who read the line worked that out.

[kenmac1]

Quick update, I fitted a set of Tronical tuners to one of my 69ers.   I think those things are freaking amazing.   Crap loads faster than retuning by hand, and accuracy is at least as good.  I will definitely get another set for my other 69 model, because they make live performance stage tuning so much easier, no loss of crowd interaction, since all you do is hit the button and strum a couple of times.

[stevekc]

 

 

Quick update, I fitted a set of Tronical tuners to one of my 69ers.   I think those things are freaking amazing.   Crap loads faster than retuning by hand, and accuracy is at least as good.  I will definitely get another set for my other 69 model, because they make live performance stage tuning so much easier, no loss of crowd interaction, since all you do is hit the button and strum a couple of times.

 

And they are on sale for a limited time 

http://store.tronical-components.com/