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are the Shiva and 5150 more over-powered than other amp models?

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i can't see that i'm doing anything different with these models, but when i set them up with the same channel volume as other high gain amp models, the are much Much MUCH louder.

i have the channel volume on 8 for these two amp models, when i have other high gain models set on 16

 

defeningly loud

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I agree the Amps are not matched in volume and the output levels jump around depending on the amp and only when using the amp block no FX etc.

 

One can only guess as to why this is and we may never know. Could it be, different personal involved (how/where the modeling equipment was set and the evolving of amp modeling at the time ie newer better equipment utilized over the development period.) 

 

Most of us have worked out our own way to get matched levels amp to amp. I use the mixer block to match levels as I believe the power amp volume is part of the sound of an amp if ever so slight with Line 6 HD amps. I can hear a difference and that is good enough for me. Even if I think I do but it may be a predetermined algorithm for all amp volume  control.

 

This is an issue that the user has to address and it has been the source of numerous complaints and made the unit seem like it is a tweak fest nightmare.

 

The workarounds others use are also worth knowing.

 

The simplest solution is always best 

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One can only guess as to why this is and we may never know. Could it be, different personal involved (how/where the modeling equipment was set and the evolving of amp modeling at the time ie newer better equipment utilized over the development period.) 

 

The amps are louder than any others for me as well, and I think you hit it with that statement. The model packs amps were made using the HX modeling process and then adapted to the HD units.

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One can only guess as to why this is and we may never know. Could it be, different personal involved (how/where the modeling equipment was set and the evolving of amp modeling at the time ie newer better equipment utilized over the development period.) 

 

I also believe it's pretty much this.

 

 

Most of us have worked out our own way to get matched levels amp to amp.

 

This is an issue with pretty much all modelers of all manufacturers, as far as I can tell. You must find a way to match your volumes.

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This is an issue with pretty much all modelers of all manufacturers, as far as I can tell. You must find a way to match your volumes.

Yup. I've been leveling patches on pre-amp/multi-fx units for 20 years. It's really not a big deal. I mean it would be delightful if the unit would do it by itself, but till then it's just part of creating tones...and it doesn't require a slide-rule, protractor, or super computer. Ears will do.

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I noticed the Panama is pretty loud compared to others. Adjusting at the mixer stage is key.

 

I use my POD for gigs/jamming and when you think you've got the right levels without the band there, you may be wrong.

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Just imagine you have an actual amp. You would set the levels with your ears, right? It's not that complicated. I don't understand how people have difficulty with something as simple as that.

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It is more an observation when auditioning only the amps. Scrolling one to another. 

The amps are not consistent from cleans to dirty but the high gain models also are inconsistant in level.

 

When changing patches you are only going to change the ones you have made your own and level matched.

 

No one would go on stage without some preproduction with the unit during rehearsals etc beforehand.

 

One great tip I got from here when I first got my HD500 was to set up templates of 3 or 4 of the amp models you want to use and level match those (I use the mixer section ) then add any common pedal FX you'd always be using on each and level match those within the FX added where possible.

 

Then other desirable FX models with foot switch controls.

What doesn't work is trying out other amp models within that patch.

I find saving a preset of the FX you have without any amp in the block and mixer back to zero in its own preset no. Then add the amp, save in a new preset no. and level match that way.

 

This way is not for everyone as it can be hard to resist returning the mixer to zero when changing amps and remembering to save to a new preset no. Dont loose old settings by saving it to the current set up.

 

The moral: 

Save a bungle with plenty of user presets available.  If  you need more presets save bungle or set and remove

Overwriting can result in lost hard won patces.

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until i see or hear it in the helix, i dont believe L6 can or wants to make things easier for the customer, even after all the complaints over the years.

i got all 3 packs and i like them. just not for the jumps in volume.

at least for the model packs i would have expected a better job with the details like convenience.

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Speaking of hitting the nail on the head.

 

What you expect is the Gain is for gain and volume is for power amp.

 

Not so per the manual. Volume changes wont effect your gain.

 

Volume is just output level. 

I have been corrected on this a few times, I thought I could hear a change. Goes to show you ears can be fooled.

 

This means the Amp Volume knob arent' intergral to tone and can be saved easier from patch to patch then the  mixer level.

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Recently, I've started building my patches without a volume pedal fx block. Instead, I have been setting the EXP to control the amp channel volume, and setting the max different from patch to patch. For example, a bank of four patches with a different amp model in each. Using a combination of the EXP pedal to max out the channel volume at a volume and tone that I like for each, then using the mixer block to balance levels from patch to patch. Using these two in combination seems to work pretty well for me. Before I always had issues with the channel volume needing to be in a different place for each amp / patch, and since I use it linked to a DT25, all it took was a little nudge by accident against the channel volume knob and the patch would be off the mark.

 

As for the Shiva, that's my new go-to, all around favorite! I do notice it's loud. Using the max channel volume and the mixer block balances it pretty well with everything else.

 

I also do banks of four patches, with the same FX setup in each, and the same amp model in each; I vary only the max % of the channel volume as controlled by the EXP pedal. If you need to go up a little or down a little in overall volume, this is a good sort of step based approach to subtle volume changes on a patch basis.

 

I did something like, Shiva at 60%, 70%, 80%, 90% for the four patch channel volume max, and maybe -2 on the mixer level.

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the amps on the new packs are definitely louder compared to the stock ones. as the others already mentioned, lowering the levels on the new amp packs is all it takes to make everything even

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