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katiekerry

How many HD users will actually upgrade to helix

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I am not spending money on a unit when I already have a unit. 

 

That is completely reasonable, but you manage to say as much as if it were somehow an indictment of Line 6.  No one expects anyone to buy anything they don't want or need.

 

In other news, not all "units" are created equal.   :)

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That is completely reasonable, but you manage to say as much as if it were somehow an indictment of Line 6.  No one expects anyone to buy anything they don't want or need.

I know, right? I found this particularly funny coming from a Piano Guy :-P.

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Note that if Fractal let you add amp/cabs to both processors in an AxeFX II, you'd end up with four total blocks as well (two in the AX8). Amps eat up a ton of DSP.

 

I should really write a Dynamic DSP Allocation blog with diagrams or something.

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I should really write a Dynamic DSP Allocation blog with diagrams or something.

 

Then PianoGuyy would have to roll his eyes twice.  At least.  :D

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Is the reason to have 4 amps in one patch instead 2 patches with 2amps is the time to switch between them?

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Is the reason to have 4 amps in one patch instead 2 patches with 2amps is the time to switch between them?

 

Maybe it would be a factor, but I think four amps is just a happy, emergent property from the versatile design. Probably isn't practical from a DSP perspective. It gives Line 6 something to brag about. :)

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4 amps enabled at the same time would be insane, IMO. A more practical approach would be having 4 amps in a patch, but only enabling one at a time via scenes. That way you could have a clean amp, a crunch amp, a high-gain amp and a lead amp switchable with the press of a button and all residing within the same patch. All Line 6 has to do is add the scenes functionality to Helix and you'll be able to conquer the world with it. Well, maybe not literally :-).

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you could have a clean amp, a crunch amp, a high-gain amp and a lead amp switchable with the press of a button and all residing within the same patch. All Line 6 has to do is add the scenes functionality to Helix

That would be PERFECT!

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pre ordered one. My supllier tells me that it will be shipped in 4 days. Hopefully I will have one next week.

Don't need many connections or triple bypasses or ... only want a better sound in combination with my jtv and dt25 amp. Hopefully my endless days of tweaking with my pod 500x are over. Hopefully plugging in will give me those simple basic sounds out of the box I want: clean, blues, crunch and lead.

If I have to spend hours of tweaking to get those simple sounds I will bring it back.

Fingers crossed....

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pre ordered one. My supllier tells me that it will be shipped in 4 days. Hopefully I will have one next week.

Not to burst your bubble, but none are going to be shipping out to customers that soon. It's still end of August/beginning of September projected ship date.

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Hopefully my endless days of tweaking with my pod 500x are over. Hopefully plugging in will give me those simple basic sounds out of the box I want: clean, blues, crunch and lead.

If I have to spend hours of tweaking to get those simple sounds I will bring it back.

Fingers crossed....

I still think the 500X is great. All indications are that Helix will be better, and I wish you luck in your quest. But personally I don't believe what you're asking for exists in a device that's designed to do 1000 different things...from L6, or any other company. I've used so many different pre-amp/modeler/multi-fx units over the years that I've forgotten half of them. What I do know is, I never achieved instant gratification with a single one of them. If any one had turned out to be instant tonal nirvana and tweak-free going forward, I'd probably still be using it.

 

In my experience, the easiest way to quickly dial in clean, blues, crunch, and lead, is a 2 channel head and a couple of different stomp-box distortion pedals. More than that, and things get easily muddled.

 

"The more complicated the plumbing, the easier it is to clog up the drain."

-Chief Engineer Montgomery Scott, USS Enterprise ;)

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As far the actual tweaking and setup process, I think the Helix is faster and more intuitive than the HD series. But, you also have a lot more options. So in that sense, it's just as easy to fall into a rabbit hole. I think the same principles apply with any modeler, though. You have to purposely limit your choices when you're in front of one, otherwise, you just end up frozen with too many options. I always suggest finding a handful of amp models you like best and building the bulk of your tones from there.

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Purposely limiting your options extends to other things as well. For any music writers here, how many options do you have when you first start writing a song? Just about limitless? As you progress, your options coalesce into fewer and fewer chunks. Even though Helix may have a staggering amount of ways to do things, it actually can seem small in this context. On the other hand it could seem like an amplifier for each option contained in the limitless bucket.

 

So I would imagine that many of the options Helix has available can be ignored in you want?

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Purposely limiting your options extends to other things as well. For any music writers here, how many options do you have when you first start writing a song? Just about limitless? As you progress, your options coalesce into fewer and fewer chunks. 

 

 

Yea I compose/record/mix.  What you say is true, even when you go into a song with an idea already in mind, albeit its slightly less so. However, I have also noticed the opposite, start out with a limited idea and once you get it going, at certain stages you see several new ideas you have not thought of before become open.  

 

So in that regard, my experience is that it has been rather dynamic either way. 

 

That being said I am really looking forward to Helix being a rather nice option for expanding my FX suite for not only guitars/bass, but of also all sorts of other instruments/sounds I work with inside my DAW.  Just like EZMix, you can use a piano patch on a guitar source, and it may yield a nice tone. Maybe I can send some synths/strings/brass through Helix while ReAmping and have might come up with some really cool stuff!

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I will definitely be upgrading my 500, but I don't know yet whether it will be to Helix, Axe8 or possibly Kemper. Not only do I want better sounds, but I need more power (also my 500 is getting kind of tired from steady gigging).

 

The more I use the 500 and explore potentials of all-in-the-box sound creation, the more processing power I want. I keep hitting ceilings on DSP. In some cases, more power would just be a convenience, so I don't have to change patches to have a particular effect on a stock sound. In other cases, I would like to be able to use two different amps (one for the clean sound, one for the dirty), which I could pedal between). I also am pretty stoked about using 3 control pedals!

 

But for $1500, it's going to have to beat all the competition!

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Former HD500 owner here...I don't currently own any modeling gear. As I'm still searching for something that sounds good and has an easy to use interface.

 

I liked my HD but found it frustrating to dial in and was never willing to touch the settings in a live or rehearsal situation. It's just not a user friendly, or intuitive device. However, I did manage to get a few very good sounding patches set up.

 

I tired the Amplifire - I actually thought my old HD was better in many ways so I returned it. The Amplifire had a much easier to use interface but to get any decent sounding amp models you had to buy and load IRs (complexity increase) and the FX were very weak so pedals were required. i don't get the appeal of it.

 

I was going to get another HD then I saw Helix. I wil wait until I can try one out, but if it sounds at least as good as the HD, has a better interface so I can make changes on the fly (aka Live or at rehearsal), I will likely buy one.

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Former HD500 owner here...I don't currently own any modeling gear. As I'm still searching for something that sounds good and has an easy to use interface.

 

I liked my HD but found it frustrating to dial in and was never willing to touch the settings in a live or rehearsal situation. It's just not a user friendly, or intuitive device. However, I did manage to get a few very good sounding patches set up.

 

I tired the Amplifire - I actually thought my old HD was better in many ways so I returned it. The Amplifire had a much easier to use interface but to get any decent sounding amp models you had to buy and load IRs (complexity increase) and the FX were very weak so pedals were required. i don't get the appeal of it.

 

I was going to get another HD then I saw Helix. I wil wait until I can try one out, but if it sounds at least as good as the HD, has a better interface so I can make changes on the fly (aka Live or at rehearsal), I will likely buy one.

I'm guessing that you got rid of your 500 before the global EQ was added. It's a bit it easier to EQ for the room now...no more fiddling with every patch your gonna use for the night.

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MIDI integration and concepts will weigh heavily in how my scale balances, when figuring out if this is the right piece of gear to purchase.

 

MIDI features have been sorely lacking for me, and I'm guessing others, in the HD/HD...X series. Biggest letdowns of the last series were no MIDI over USB, and no MIDI integration for effect and amp parameters. Patch changes were there, but without true effect trails, and with audio dropout between patches...too much obvious breakup and latency added.

 

Additionally, the USB enclosure for the last series was way too loose; USB cables will fall out of the units on slight tugs, and lose connection to external devices without much movement. Homerun on the enclosure will be a nice, snug USB connection. I'll point out that you can hold an MPC Renaissance in mid-air by the USB cord and it will not budge the connection. That's a secure connection, and something I'm looking for Line6 to deliver!

 

Crossing my fingers, and looking forward to release.    

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MIDI integration and concepts will weigh heavily in how my scale balances, when figuring out if this is the right piece of gear to purchase.

 

MIDI features have been sorely lacking for me, and I'm guessing others, in the HD/HD...X series. Biggest letdowns of the last series were no MIDI over USB, and no MIDI integration for effect and amp parameters. Patch changes were there, but without true effect trails, and with audio dropout between patches...too much obvious breakup and latency added.

 

Additionally, the USB enclosure for the last series was way too loose; USB cables will fall out of the units on slight tugs, and lose connection to external devices without much movement. Homerun on the enclosure will be a nice, snug USB connection. I'll point out that you can hold an MPC Renaissance in mid-air by the USB cord and it will not budge the connection. That's a secure connection, and something I'm looking for Line6 to deliver!

 

Crossing my fingers, and looking forward to release.    

 

Helix does have MIDI over USB capability. Also, although, there are not dedicated CCs for  amp and effect parameter, you can use the "learn controller" function to control up to 64 parameters in a preset.

 

The USB connection seems secure enough to me. I'm sure the cord can still be pulled out without a lot of effort, though. Definitely not as snug as the example you give. Although, the Helix weighs 14 lbs... You wouldn't want to try to lift it up with the USB connection even if it were really snug.

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they changed the delivery date for me from 4 days into 10 weeks after my remark to them (o;

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The more I use the 500 and explore potentials of all-in-the-box sound creation, the more processing power I want. I keep hitting ceilings on DSP.

Curious to know, what kind of patches are you constructing that bump up against your DSP limit? Can you give an example of one?

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Curious to know, what kind of patches are you constructing that bump up against your DSP limit? Can you give an example of one?

My patches all feature two sounds: a lower volume rhythm sound and a higher lead sound. I use the control pedal to rock between those sounds. Often they go from clean or cleaner to more distorted. Most of the time I can only get away with one amp, although in many cases I would prefer two different amps, one for each sound. In order to create the two sounds with one amp, I often need two fx, such as compressors, one before and one after amp to gain stage the sounds. The final reason is that I would like to have more different fx options available on a patch - a chorus, an auto wah, a tremolo, different delays, etc. Of course I can just have different versions of the same patch, that have different fx on them, but on the gig, during a performance (I work as a solo a lot) I don't like scrolling up and down to get to the various patches I need.

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Well, there are two processors, and the four tone paths are labeled 1A & 1B and 2A and 2B. 1A and 1B share the resources of the first processor, so however you have those paths set up, their combined max DSP load represents 50% of the entire DSP of the unit (or 100% of that processor would be another way to put it). The same could be said for 2A & 2B. In my example above, I was close to the limit of the first processor and just moved some stuff down to the second.

 

It's a little hard to explain the exact functionality when others haven't actually seen the manual or unit yet. The default setup, if you will, is one tone path using processor 1 and another using processor 2. You can split those two paths into two independent paths, so that's how you get 1A, 1B, 2A and 2B. It makes perfect sense once you see the signal paths on the screen. Once you have those four paths set up, you can arrange them in all sorts of routings.

Wow, that sounds absolutely ideal for the way I lay out my patches. For speed and versatility in performance, I always have two sounds on each patch - a rhythm and a lead - which I toggle between with the control pedal. If there is adequate horsepower, I would often prefer to use two different amps for the sounds (something I can't really pull off with my 500).

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Man, STOP telling me about this stuff...I am trying to not get sucked into the Helix vortex....HELP!!!

 

Those tone path routing options sound GREAT! uggghhhh....like billorentzen that would be ideal for me as well....

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For speed and versatility in performance, I always have two sounds on each patch - a rhythm and a lead - which I toggle between with the control pedal. If there is adequate horsepower, I would often prefer to use two different amps for the sounds (something I can't really pull off with my 500).

Not trying to talk you out of a Helix, but I've got several dual-amp patches set up exactly the way you describe for rhythm/lead tones. You should be able to set that up with what you've already got pretty easily, if you're not ready to drop $1500 on a new toy just yet.

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Not trying to talk you out of a Helix, but I've got several dual-amp patches set up exactly the way you describe for rhythm/lead tones. You should be able to set that up with what you've already got pretty easily, if you're not ready to drop $1500 on a new toy just yet.

I'm glad you can pull it off, but when I add in compressors, gate, delay, verb and modulation I run out of dilithium crystals.

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I'm glad you can pull it off, but when I add in compressors, gate, delay, verb and modulation I run out of dilithium crystals.

The modulation must be what's red lining the DSP, I guess...most of my patches have everything else on that list, but I don't use modulation very often. Hardly ever, really.

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To the OP, I was planning to buy one, but rather than the beautiful GUI, tone wise I find a 5% improvement.  Maybe it is much more easy to get your tone now, but alas, after 5 years of pod HD use, I can get the tone I want anytime... Until someone has both units and do a side by side comparison (as jandrio or hurghanico try) I see no point to move to the helix.. Thanks God my gas is gone already for it.

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My patches all feature two sounds: a lower volume rhythm sound and a higher lead sound. I use the control pedal to rock between those sounds. Often they go from clean or cleaner to more distorted. Most of the time I can only get away with one amp, although in many cases I would prefer two different amps, one for each sound. In order to create the two sounds with one amp, I often need two fx, such as compressors, one before and one after amp to gain stage the sounds. The final reason is that I would like to have more different fx options available on a patch - a chorus, an auto wah, a tremolo, different delays, etc. Of course I can just have different versions of the same patch, that have different fx on them, but on the gig, during a performance (I work as a solo a lot) I don't like scrolling up and down to get to the various patches I need.

so in 1 song you would use a chorus, an auto wah, a tremolo, different delays, etc? Seems like a lot. I mean a 600hp car is cool. Do you really need a 600hp car or is it just fun knowing you have a 600hp car? In other words, do you need 6 different DSP heavy fx get your point across musically, or do you want them because more means better? For me, my rig started sounding really good when I simplified my patches by getting rid of stuff in my patches. With that said, 600hp car is pretty badassed!
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I shake my head every time I read "n% improvement" in tone.  Where are people getting these numbers?  What could they possibly mean?

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I shake my head every time I read "n% improvement" in tone.  Where are people getting these numbers?  What could they possibly mean?

Αsk the pod HD creators... They know ;) (EQ and other stuff)

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I shake my head every time I read "n% improvement" in tone.  Where are people getting these numbers?  What could they possibly mean?

 

It's just a subjective statement. It's obvious from the context. Why do people have to give other people such a hard time about this "n% improvement" thing. Get over it. We are not subjected to the scrutiny of the scientific method here. We are not manufacturing heart medicine. He is just giving his opinion. Cut him a break and quit being so anal. He's saying it's just a little bit better, not a lot better, in his opinion. Do you not get that? Is it really that hard to conceptualize? Do we all have to use phrasing and objective measurements that conform to your standards? He is saying something that is easy to understand that at least has some value to the conversation, i.e., This is what I think of the improvement in tones of the Helix and that my subjective assessment will influence whether I will upgrade or not. Nobody cares if you can't wrap your head around the concept of subjective assessment and it is worthless information to everyone that you have to shake your head.

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Do we all have to use phrasing and objective measurements that conform to your standards?

 

You might have that backwards.  It's the use of objective measurements where none are really applicable that I call into question.  But wow man, I'm pretty sure you're having a harder time about this than I am.  Even arislaf took my comment in stride.  i.e. No one needs to use any particular kind of phrasing on my account, so... why are you freaking out about mine?

 

For the record, I do not presume that anyone cares what I think about anything.  I'll cop to the fact that my little comment above was a bit snide, but seriously, "worthless information"?  As if this thread had been overflowing with valuable information up to that point?  I think I am - at most - 47.65% to blame. Subjective assessment... not that anyone cares.   :)

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I shake my head every time I read "n% improvement" in tone.  Where are people getting these numbers?  What could they possibly mean?

 

What's baffling is how "n% improvement" could somehow be ascertained by the audio in a YouTube video.

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I will wait until the youtube videos and real user reviews come in. That will be the real test. The price doesn't scare me, and I seriously doubt it will drop like a lot of people are hoping for.

 

The Helix unit is in a different product market. Thus the quality and price. People are shelling out up to 3 grand for Axe FX units Lne 6 may be counting on getting a great product out for slightly less but with good enough sound quality.

 

For many years Line 6 has soild low cost packed FX units that relly catred to entry level musicians, like the Spyder and POD series. They have done well, but that also has given them a "low cost for kiddies" reputation deserved or not.

 

The Helix hopefully will put them a new market and get the more respect with the higher end tone snob crowd.

Paul Pesco of Hall and Oates tours with an XT live and two K10s.He is hardly an entry level player. He can play whatever he wants and he does not use an Axe/Kemper etc... live.

 

When guys like Paul Pesco and other real touring pros start using the Helix I will get interested. For now my HD500($250 used) and crappy little Variax 500($250 used) sound and feel real good through 2 10 or 12 in powered speakers for all but a few of my live gigging needs.

 

I have made a nice profit quite a few times over on my $500 used Line 6 investment.

 

I think an HD500X is in my future much more immediately than the Helix.

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I think an HD500X is in my future much more immediately than the Helix. 

 

Ageed - after the Helix is released, I expect Ebay prices for gently used HD500X to plummet to $275-300 

 

They are there already

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Line-6-POD-HD500X-Guitar-Multi-Effects-Processor-Pedal-/271955936381?hash=item3f51d6447d

 

Likewise i expect a "Helix II" with faster DSP in late 2017-2018 time frame, with resulting drop in price for "last years model"  -DSP Guitar processors are like shopping for computers 

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You might have that backwards.  It's the use of objective measurements where none are really applicable that I call into question.  But wow man, I'm pretty sure you're having a harder time about this than I am.  Even arislaf took my comment in stride.  i.e. No one needs to use any particular kind of phrasing on my account, so... why are you freaking out about mine?

 

For the record, I do not presume that anyone cares what I think about anything.  I'll cop to the fact that my little comment above was a bit snide, but seriously, "worthless information"?  As if this thread had been overflowing with valuable information up that point?  I think I am - at most - 47.65% to blame. Subjective assessment... not that anyone cares.   :)

 

From the source of all that is true and perfect... the Internet has provided the following information:

 

"Acronym for 'shake my head' or 'shaking my head.' Usually used when someone finds something so stupid, no words can do it justice."

 

My gut reaction was that you were insulting the guy. I my haste, I forgot that I'm usually wrong at least 52.35% of the time. Tomorrow I'm taking my meds.
 
Live long and prosper.

 

What's baffling is how "n% improvement" could somehow be ascertained by the audio in a YouTube video.

 

I think we can get a ballpark idea when we compare 500X and Helix videos that were both created by Line6. The Helix sounds chewier to me, but I'm really not sure why I keep reading this particular thread. I've already decided I won't know without trying it out.

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My gut reaction was that you were insulting the guy. I my haste, I forgot that I'm usually wrong at least 52.35% of the time. Tomorrow I'm taking my meds.

 

I wasn't trying to personally insult anyone.  Arislaf is very likely a smart and pleasant guy who can play circles around me.  I'm just calling out a manner of comparison that IMO doesn't make any sense, in that it's too specifically quantitative in describing something qualitative and subjective.  I think it gets people thinking about these products in counter-productive ways, and lends to confusion and misinformation.  And I see it a LOT, each time with a different basically random integer in front of the percentage sign.  If only it were so easy to make judgements about the relative merits of these devices...   :)

 

But I get that my post was a little snotty and not exactly essential.  Apologies for that.

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Likewise i expect a "Helix II" with faster DSP in late 2017-2018 time frame, with resulting drop in price for "last years model"  -DSP Guitar processors are like shopping for computers 

 

Not "Helix II", you are thinking about "HelixX"?  :D

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