A question about the amp relay switch and the CV in relation to amp switching

[drew_tnbd]

Okay so I've got a Fryette Sig X. It takes a 6 pin DIN plug into it's footswitch jack on the back of the amp. This switches relays inside the amp to change channels, activate the channel boost, and activate the effects loop.

 

What I'm wondering is if I can avoid having an external box like the Voodoo Labs Control Switcher, and whether I can make a cable that will go straight from the Helix to the Sig X, allowing me to switch the amps functions from the Helix directly.

 

What I'm wondering is if the external amp output could change the channel, and the CV could enable the boost.

 

Here are some wiring diagrams that I have:

 

One from RJM for their Amp Gizmo: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/630473/101_FUJI/AC-SIGX.pdf

One from Fryette themselves: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/630473/101_FUJI/SigX_FS_Pinout.pdf

 

It seems to me that I could skip the FX loop switchability (I'd have it on all the time anyway!) and I could wire the relevant pins on a 6-pin DIN plug, to a pair of TRS jacks, which could then plug into the Helix.

 

Thoughts?

[theroan]

Hey there,

 

Unfortunately the Sig:X only the has the DIN input for footswitching. If you compare it to say a Mesa product like the Mark V is equipped with both DIN and 1/4 inch inputs for footswitching. In which case you could use the Helix control a few amp functions. With your amp, you're going to need a midi switcher of something like the Mini Amp Gizmo.

[drew_tnbd]

Hey there,

 

Unfortunately the Sig:X only the has the DIN input for footswitching. If you compare it to say a Mesa product like the Mark V is equipped with both DIN and 1/4 inch inputs for footswitching. In which case you could use the Helix control a few amp functions. With your amp, you're going to need a midi switcher of something like the Mini Amp Gizmo.

 

It's a DIN socket, yes. But the amp itself does not use midi. The DIN socket is basically just acting as a tidier way of 1/4" sockets. I'm pretty sure if you send a voltage pulse to the right pin on the DIN, it will perform the function associated with that pin - channel switch, boost activate, etc...

 

The thing I'm not sure about is utilising the CV output to give me a third 'external amp pulse' if you will.

[theroan]

That's why you need a Mini Amp Gizmo. It converts midi signals to whatever DIN signal your amp expects. Since the amp doesn't have 1/4 inputs for channel switching. 

 

One option could be to see if RJM will make you a TRS to DIN cable. They used custom cables for their products based on the amp you use. Maybe they could make something up that would work with the Helix. Now as the Helix is only TRS you only have two switch options. So your switching options would be limited. If you went with a Gizmo you'd get full functionality. 

 

I use the Mini Amp Gizmo with my Mark V. It's one of the best pieces of gear I've ever bought.

[drew_tnbd]

One option could be to see if RJM will make you a TRS to DIN cable. They used custom cables for their products based on the amp you use. Maybe they could make something up that would work with the Helix. Now as the Helix is only TRS you only have two switch options. So your switching options would be limited. If you went with a Gizmo you'd get full functionality.

Yes yes! That's exactly what I am wondering. Additionally though, I'm wondering if I can use the CV output to get myself a 3rd switch option. Geddit?

[theroan]

I do. I think the amp gizmo is probably the better bet.

 

Good luck!

[jaded_musician]

I'm curious about this as well, I have a Redplate Blackverb that uses a 5 pin din cable( MIDI) in a similar fashion. I would need 3 amp switches to recreate what the pedal does.

[pdarosa]

My apologies in advance if this is redundant. I too have a Boogie Mark V and am very interested in knowing if I can control it with a Helix floorboard (as opposed to the rack mount unit).

 

The amp has three channels, a solo boost and an eq boost. It has 1/4" external switch outs on the back for channel 2, 3, solo boost and eq boost. I'm assuming channel 1 is on by default when channel 2 and 3 aren't switched on.

 

Can I used helix's EXP2, EXT 3, EXT AMP and/or CV to switch all of these on and off?

 

Can I use a TRS cable with EXT AMP to switch 2 of the channels if CV isn't an option?

[TheDaveDaveDave]

Yep, you can use the TRS EXT AMP cable alone to switch between all 3 channels on the Mark V - I've done this with the G-System.  I hope the Helix Relays are faster than the G-Systems though.  Make sure that you always double check the channel switch settings on the back of the Mark when switching things around though - it's on a mini gig-checklist that I keep on my phone :)

 

My apologies in advance if this is redundant. I too have a Boogie Mark V and am very interested in knowing if I can control it with a Helix floorboard (as opposed to the rack mount unit).

 

The amp has three channels, a solo boost and an eq boost. It has 1/4" external switch outs on the back for channel 2, 3, solo boost and eq boost. I'm assuming channel 1 is on by default when channel 2 and 3 aren't switched on.

 

Can I used helix's EXP2, EXT 3, EXT AMP and/or CV to switch all of these on and off?

 

Can I use a TRS cable with EXT AMP to switch 2 of the channels if CV isn't an option?

 

 

 

re: the original issue - using the CV output to the amp's switching sounds REALLY scary, and I'm pretty comfy with a soldering iron and an o-scope.     @drew_fx - Using an Amp Gizmo is your best bet, IMHO, but it does suck to have to shell out more coin.  Check the amps listed on http://www.rjmmusic.com/products/amp-gizmo/- there are a lot of VHT/Fryette amps that they make DIN cables for, and even if not, call them up and they're usually happy to wire up a custom cable too!  RJM is another awesome company.

 

There can be some strange nuances using a 3 or 4 channel amp with the Amp Gizmo and a midi controller though... for instance, you can set your basic program settings pretty easily, but then when you want to change channels within a program/preset, you need to send CC messages to the Amp Gizmo.  The wierd part is that the controller (G-System, Helix, etc) doesn't know one CC from another when it sends them out, so if you wanted to have 3 footswitches dedicated to channel switching within a single preset, Helix probably won't know to switch off the other two footswitched that you *didn't* press when you changed channels... in other words, using mor than one footsiwtch to control you amp in one program can show you that the amp has two or more channels switched "on" at the same time, or all "off"... very yucky.    My solution has always been to a) set the program to have a default channel, i.e., RHY1 or RHY2 and then program a "bump" switch that knocks it up to the next channel - so pressing BUMP on RHY1 switches the channel to RHY2, and if the default program channel was RHY2, BUMP switches to LD1.   Everything on the floorboard always reflects what the amp is actually this way, but at the expense of only having 2 amp channels per preset. 

I'm hoping that some finer details of the Helix's MIDI control scheme may alleviate this.. if anyone else has any input on this I'd LOVE to hear it!  Otherwise, I'll juse be setting it up on Thursday and reporting back...

 

 

Cheers y'all!

[pdarosa]

Thanks,

 

Cool so it seems like I can use a TRS cable into Helix and split it with an adaptor into channed 2 and 3 on the back of the Mark. Then use EXT2 and EXT3 on the helix to plug into the back of the Mark for solo boost and EQ boost. Looking forward to using Helix a hub for my rig. I also do many gigs where I have to be directly connected to the mixer so I'm planning to have separate set lists for each type of set up.

[TheDaveDaveDave]

Thanks,

 

Cool so it seems like I can use a TRS cable into Helix and split it with an adaptor into channed 2 and 3 on the back of the Mark. Then use EXT2 and EXT3 on the helix to plug into the back of the Mark for solo boost and EQ boost. Looking forward to using Helix a hub for my rig. I also do many gigs where I have to be directly connected to the mixer so I'm planning to have separate set lists for each type of set up.

Erm - not quite.  The amp TRS output is labeled "EXT AMP 1/2" - so I think you're talking about the same thing twice.  Perhaps you're looking at the 1/4" jacks labeled "EXP 1" and "EXP 2"?  These are input jacks for expression pedals, not external relay controls.   Alas, out of the box with no extra hardware, you get the "effect" of controlling only two switch jacks. (/ducking after that pun).   I guess this was one thing the G-System has a leg up on the Helix with four separate relays and two TRS jacks.  

Oh, also, yep - you're right to point out that you do need some kind of splitter on the other end of the TRS cable. 

 

Hope this helps!

[TheDaveDaveDave]

Oh - also, can a brother get a bump with the "like" button here and there? ;)

 

Thanks!

[pdarosa]

Of course you can, thanks a bunch for you information and forgive my ignorance.

 

I didn't realize that I could only utilize channel switching (relay) functions with the EXT AMP jack on the Helix. If I cannot use EXT 2 or EXT 3 for this then it seems my only option is a Mini Amp Gizmo type of hardware. In which case, my POD HD500X can accomplish the same thing. Any input or advice is appreciated.

 

I could also just keep the original Mark foot switch along side the Helix and connect using the 4-cable method, right?