(Yamaha) Line 6 JTV-89F (K/Crafted in Korea) - Factory Issues (The Return to The Dealer 'Saga')

[ZenBalancer]

So I (still) have motivations to get a good JTV-89F (2013 model); from the start (in July) I took a loan from family for this.

 

This is an overview of the particular shipments of this guitar I received/tried, and are returned to the online dealer within right-to-return-period. The various reasons are in the respective Posts; the first 2 most problematic, and the latter 2/3 just plain clumsiness, I guess, in the manufacturing process in Korea ([Yamaha] Line 6 contracting 3rd party? Or a branch?).

 

...

I won't reference the serial numbers, for privacy reasons, and perhaps it's better that the factory in Korea gets a common improvement request and even higher quality (a lot of good work was put in each one, I'm sorry about the issues as well) instead of possibly firing someone.

...

 

In this case at least, I've been thoroughly careful throughout my testing process with all of these I've tested. I've more to add to this Thread/Topic, but I've to be OP before I can add to it: 

 

1. My 1st JTV-89F (Korea) - 23 March 2015 batch from Yamaha Europe (NEW - SEALED BOX) found in a different/initial Thread/Topic (no need to move it), short list; reason of return:

 

1.a. Electronically not branded correctly.

1.b. Alternate Tuning nob:

1.b.1. Partially reversed Tuning Preset positions!

1.b.2. Partially unexplained Tuning Preset positions.

 

2. My 2nd JTV-89F (Korea) - 7 July 2015 batch from Yamaha Europe (NEW - SEALED BOX); reason of return:

 

2.a. A 2nd Alternate Tuning Nob instead of the Modelling Nob..

 

3. My 3rd JTV-89F (Korea) - 5 August 2015 batch from Yamaha Europe (NEW - SEALED BOX):; reason of return:

 

3.a. A possible (beginning) crack in the guitar Neck, but most probably a reckless position-marking for the placement of the guitar Nut; based on two indications/evidence-points.

 

4. My 4th JTV-89F (Korea) - 23 March 2015 batch from Yamaha Europe (NEW - SEALED BOX); reason of return:

 

4.a. An ominous QC possible oversight or simple dismissal, even though cosmetic; I'll not test it any further. It's over. Next.

 

5. My 5th JTV-89F (Korea) - 14 August 2015 batch from Yamaha Europe (NEW - SEALED BOX - making a case for this one's return as well)

 

 

The main reason I wanted and still want a NEW one, is mainly for its warranty/ease-of-mind! Because if this was not NEW combined with the right dealer, it would have been a no-go/impossible/un-doable/lollipop/poo-eating-contest time. I might have considered eating lollipop/poo just to get a good one in return.. luckily, it doesn't have to come to that.

 

I've not even gotten to the FW and SW improvement wishing. But one step a time. I still [partially] support (Yamaha) Line 6 for its pioneering and continuing innovations and inventiveness (in my view anyway). I'm sure everyone's negative experience in anyway brings shame to their brand, something they definitely don't standby idly and do nothing about. Communication lines, however, are just overloaded; a lot is going on with/from everyone everywhere. So I'll push for the changes that 'serve' me. If it helps anyone else, it would be a bonus.

 

 

 

EDITs: expanded + addition + clarity.

Edited September 1, 2015 by ZenBalancer

[ZenBalancer]

My 2nd JTV-89F (Korea) - 7 July 2015 batch from Yamaha Europe (NEW - SEALED BOX):

 

 

 

 

Main Good point in comparison to the 1st one: it was electronically branded correctly; recognized correctly by the Workbench HD:

 

 

 

Bad (main reason for returning it to the dealer): A DOUBLE Alternate Tuning Nob! THIS failure COMBO that undid all of the good work put into this particular guitar shipment as well. Instead of the Modelling Nob and the Tuning Nob:

Its original photo with timestamp tag etc..: 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n9f9o8bv87nevur/2015-08-05_02-20-28_502.jpg?dl=0

 

Its original photo:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7a1w9mj4jakyllg/2015-08-05_02-07-47_403.jpg?dl=0

 

EDIT: clarity.

Edited September 1, 2015 by ZenBalancer

[ZenBalancer]

My 3rd JTV-89F (Korea) - 5 August 2015 batch from Yamaha Europe (NEW - SEALED BOX):

 

 

 

I'm sure everything else might have been fine with this one, but here I'm focusing on the reason for its return to the dealer as well.

 

The issue wasn't as bad as the first 2, but it definitely didn't make me feel at ease with it, to depend on it for the next 5-10 years. There was a marking under the Nut, that was unlike the 2nd one (the middle of the Nut position for placement was marked with a pencil, I was able to erase that mark away), this one I couldn't erase. It was also unlike the 1st, that didn't have any marking on the Maple Neck at all. So this 3rd one made me worry that there was (a beginning of) a crack in the Neck under the Nut (possible shipping damage, but most likely wrong marking 'technique' because of the exact coincidental position as the 2nd pencil marking), where I presume the most tension is placed on. So in the context of my misfortune with the previous 2, I did not take any chance on this one at all:

Its original photo: 

- https://www.dropbox.com/s/xqs4zcfhqijkxct/2015-08-15_01-55-25_78.jpg?dl=0

 

Also there was some of a Headstock finish-issue/-damage at a worrying position, that suggested that it might have been subjected to rough handling after all. I've treated all of the guitars I've tested with utmost care; treating them like glass, never letting the Body touch the ground, never-mind any other part! So for this and the above reason, this was a no go:

 

Its original photo:

- https://www.dropbox.com/s/1ea8rftxsl49xlm/2015-08-15_01-59-35_49.jpg?dl=0

 

EDIT: corrected image URL + clarity.

Edited September 1, 2015 by ZenBalancer

[ZenBalancer]

My 4th JTV-89F (Korea) - 23 March 2015 batch from Yamaha Europe (NEW - SEALED BOX):

 

You'll have to trust me that this was the actual batch date (an older batch, possibly the same as the 1st), you'll have to trust me on this because it was labeled-over with a white-sticker for whatever reason. It was difficult to catch what otherwise was underneath still perceivable directly to a human eye (I'm certain of mine in this case), when looked at it close enough (isn't captured by the picture [only 5 MegaPixels of a relatively meh phone-camera]).

 

You can, however, clearly see the same batch label info (this on is the zoom of the left part of the sticker label:

6.5 KG and 2 out of 4 of the total - I left it un-annotated intentionally):

 

 

See the similarities (beneath) as the 1st one's sticker label:

...

EDIT2(2015-09-01): zoomin evidence Dropbox-hosted for public-viewing:

...

There would otherwise be NO good reason to deviate from the procedure of leaving the original shipping label (from Yamaha to the dealer) readable, just like the previous 3, other than perception deception, just in case the return of the previous 3 had anything to do with it, or their shipping dates have risen my expectations. Neither of these reasons were relevant to my decision. I just want a GOOD NEW JTV-89F!

 

That aside, this one, based on my unfortunate experience with the previous 3, (this one) I didn't even test any further than the first cosmetic-issue yet definitely to me (in this context) an ominous sign! The bottom corner of the Pickup Selector seemed simply burned/botched/whatever/not-good (irrelevant later: the 'cap' of the Pickup Selector seems removable by design (based on the same thing being the case with one of the previous 3, and my 5h), except depending on the push-force they used, not every shipments' Pickup Selector 'cap' is as easily removable as the other):

 

Its original photo:

- https://www.dropbox.com/s/zc9un0owohy070q/2015-08-19_19-59-53_732.jpg?dl=0

 

Its original photo:

- https://www.dropbox.com/s/9ntssuyo2byilhp/2015-08-19_19-59-44_48.jpg?dl=0

 

So based on a no-good = no-tolerance, out of my previous ordeal consequential mentality, I didn't even open the accessory boxes to test it any further, thus even less than the previous 3. If it had this visible flaw, what else did QC just dismiss? It's a NEW SEALED BOX! FULL PRICE! This one also, but instead of 3 strikes, it's '4th strike' out in a glance.

[ZenBalancer]

My 5th JTV-89F (Korea) - 14 August 2015 batch from Yamaha Europe (NEW - SEALED BOX - making a case for this one's return as well):


 

 

This situation is still in progress. Despite it not having any of the other relevant issues, something isn't right with the guitar Neck back-side/thumb-placement-surface. There are 2 points (under string ~#4 between fret 4-5 and 8-9) of relevant imperfections/dents that is tactically felt each time passing over it; annoys me also to no end. The other 4 didn't have this issue. The 1st I tested most thoroughly, and I never felt such a relevant imperfection with the others either as far of those I got around to testing that aspect as well. It's very difficult to capture optically with a meh phone-camera, but I think it's still visible (yet it's about the feel of it, for 5-10 years; regretting not taking action when it's not my fault!):
 

Its original photo:
- https://www.dropbox.com/s/09zw3x4cnv0bf1l/2015-08-27_00-28-08_237.jpg?dl=0
 

Its original photo:
- https://www.dropbox.com/s/f2xqbpsy541fdis/2015-08-27_00-32-24_331.jpg?dl=0

I'm not going to decrease the value, nor risk void my warranty by any indication because of my own actions; just to (try to) 'fix' a DAMNED NEW GUITAR. Full price! Give me a good one.. That. Is. Not. A. Lot. To. Ask. For. Or, so, I, thought..
 

...
I've treated all of the guitars I've tested with utmost care; treating them like glass, never letting the Body touch the ground, never-mind any other part!
...

Do you want to have an idea what I think is, or isn't a relevant imperfection? The following is an irrelevant imperfection (that was present in 2-4 out of the 5 guitars (I noticed during my glance inspections; this wasn't even important enough to register properly, except now with the 5th for a contrast):



I don't know the reason, possibly something to do with their screwdriver? I don't care, it's irrelevant; the slightest feel of the guitar Neck however, isn't; it's very, very relevant.

 

EDIT: correction.

Edited September 1, 2015 by ZenBalancer

[cruisinon2]

Clearly the universe does not want you to own a JTV...by the time you get one that satisfies you, you might be too old to remember where the notes are. ;)

[Charlie_Watt]

It's obvious that there are some serious QC issues if some of these defects leave the factory.  The minor cosmetic ones would probably not bother me but the others are just plain unacceptable!

[ZenBalancer]

Clearly the universe does not want you to own a JTV...by the time you get one that satisfies you, you might be too old to remember where the notes are. ;)

 

 

False alarm, guys!

 

I was able to connect the JTV using the Line 6 Interface and then a new reflash resolved the issue.

 

 

Thank God  :)

 

 

Anyway... don't know how to delete this thread. Hopefully it can help someone in the future.

 

The message here is: "Don't despair"  :D

 

 

 

 

 

I realize this thread isn't formulated as an explicit question. The implicit one could be "Can anyone help me fix it?". But if you mark it as "Answered" (you can for instance choose an existing post for that) it will at least seem much less ominous. For instance, I was already scared of flashing, after a slightly relevant negative experience with the process. But going through your post scared the lollipop (lollipop? really Line 6?) out of me in terms of whether I should ever try to (re-)flash any Line 6 product in the future. Bricking a Line 6 equipment despite doing everything (well, almost; a connected Link shouldn't matter imo, if designed friendly enough, or technically possible) by their "book" with all of the ideal [controllable] factors??? Me Angry. Its effect on me is not your fault anyway, but that's not my point.

 

The green "Answered" icon that will appear next to your thread (also in the list), will go a long way in reassuring that everything in this regard at least has been well sorted. Deleting is never my favorite choice. Unless I become uncontrollably psychotic; in that case there is no sense in explaining what the lollipop (it doesn't seem that I will soon get used to this auto-string-replacement, it's just poo reference for [relatively acceptable] free-speech's sake!) I was talking about; so posts will then disappear with an apology. But I digress.   -_-

 

Evidence (of an occurrence) is always your friend (normally), in my experience. I try to keep some track even though not always publicly raw.

 

Also you might want to use their MD5 tool to check the FW files before using them, something that I will definitely do each time from now on. The tool can be found with the drop-down-menu-item "No Hardware Required": http://line6.com/software/index.html

 

I wish a pleasant experience for everyone with Line 6. Tricky complications; I know..   <_<, but in terms of possibilities and potential, Line 6 has no contest. Their implementation process (including contracting 3rd parties), however, has yet to someday become perfect enough. That's hoping at least for all involved.   ^_^

 

EDIT (including some addition earlier):

 

 

PS

'God' has nothing to do with it, imo. That notion is also bad for my predisposition to delusions, among others; to clarify my standpoint.

OK, I get your point.

 

 

I'm usually more cautious about posting stuff online on forums (without extensively reading other threads first). I clearly panicked (sorry about that), cause this was the first time I wasn't able to get the computer to "see" the guitar. Fortunately for me the interface (which btw I didn't valued much till now) reverted it, but apparently this wasn't enough for other folks around here. For some the guitar really got "bricked" by this process.

 

I think there's plenty evidence on this forum that this reflash process isn't 100% secure and very straightforward as Line 6 probably expected it to be in the first place. It's a shame that sometimes we have to prevent ourselves from getting the latest version of the firmware (and checking the new sounds) in order to keep our instruments "safe".

 

The option to download the firmware before and have it checked by this MD5 tool is cool (though I would like to see it also available for Mac, since I haven't a PC). But I'm not sure if it could prevent me from having anything going wrong with the reflash itself.

 

For now, I'll stick with the 1.71 version that I personally like the best. I didn't tried the more recent ones though.

 

 

PS1: Lollipop is very silly indeed. But it certainly made me laugh.

PS2: God, Dog, Zorg, whatever fits your need, man... it was just an expression  ;)

PS3: Anyway, I've just marked the thread as solved.

 

Neither should the Universe have anything to do with it, except applying its force of nature, and accepting manipulations by biological creatures, especially humans as we are afteral. It's human hands, and life-mistakes. Well, I'll not be a victim of life-mistakes without putting up a fight of my own.

I'll not be caught in another, however romantic, delusion about a dynamic between me, or anyone else, and a supposed 'will' of the Universe. All I care about is 'Earth', and my 'stuff'; the Universe seems to be a necessity for that and us EDIT: on/in it respectively (out of context could be consensually?) /EDIT, for those remaining behind at least; a context I reference just in case anyone has the opportunity to be part of an interplanetary colonization and/or partial migration; since we're speaking in silly digressions anyway  ^_^ also well meant though.

 

I realize when I thought like that in the past, pre-post-spirituality for me, I was discrediting the good work of the people whom?/who?/anyway.. I was discrediting their efforts that made the difference, not the 'box'/'container' we live in/on. I realize we're even as individual humans just a collection of cells, so every 'bit' counts, so I don't want to nor have to let dismiss anyone, and I'm sure enough agree.

 

It's about pointing at basic (possible) human-error; for a 'fix'; not 'deflecting' nor romanticizing about any notion, especially not when the clarification of a specific point agreed upon would not benefit from that.

 

Also: lol <- also my hands are up for a moment in some form of solidarity!

I'm not sure I surrender entirely just yet though to the forces/or-what-not.

EDIT: I'm also deep-down a coward, hence doing this remotely; if that compels anyone to be unlike me, I'm not taking the responsibility for that!

 

EDIT#?:

It's obvious that there are some serious QC issues if some of these defects leave the factory.  The minor cosmetic ones would probably not bother me but the others are just plain unacceptable!

Notice that I used the cosmetic ones after and in the context of the unacceptable ones, as an argument for what could be ALSO not correct about it if looked into it further; and it still shouldn't be the norm: being saddled with something the end-user DID NOT ASK FOR just to pass it as passable/EDIT:acceptable(/EDIT); leaving it to the judgement of the end-user? Is that what they're doing at QC's specific or general shifts? Well, it's going back! It matters to me.

 

Not directed at anyone specific:

I might be an lollipop/a-hole (if it's lollied again) for possibly being the reason someone might lose their job (if you've any decent manager, the judgement should not be out of proportion), BUT I WILL NOT BE IN A PRISON OF MY OWN MIND JUST BECAUSE THE NORM IS AT FIRST WALKING AROUND/ON EGGSHELLS, AROUND EVERY MISTAKE ANY HUMAN EVER MADE! I WILL POINT, if it's just not correct.. I'm past that point; I've the right to be passed that point; my right should be clear. I make mistakes? Point me at them, then I might at least register it in my mind. Maybe an improvement could follow automatically. Who knows.

 

EDIT: However, after having experienced what I did, I don't want to go back.. on so many levels. I want a good JTV-89F right here.

 

EDIT#?: 'cosmic disqus dafaq out of it'!

 

EDIT#?: Now this lollipop from now on goes/is wayback: https://web.archive.org/web/20150901140733/http://line6.com/support/topic/15432-yamaha-line-6-jtv-89f-kcrafted-in-korea-factory-issues-the-return-to-the-dealer-saga/

 

EDITs: added a further ('broadcasting') response + layout + clarity.

Edited September 1, 2015 by ZenBalancer

[Leftzilla]

Hey if you are not satisfied or the product does not perform as advertised, then you have every right to return it for a replacement.  I don't know if for some reason Europe is getting all of the rejects or if some central clearing house is just running these out to find them a home.  Somebody is obviously not paying attention.  On the other hand, both of my JTV's arrived and worked flawlessly from Sweetwater.  I will say I am surprised you stuck with it, given the several disappointing, and ultimately unsatisfying replacement guitars.  It may be time if you haven't done so already to contact Line 6 customer support direct and see if you can get outside of the European supply chain or at least away from this population of guitars.

[ZenBalancer]

Hey if you are not satisfied or the product does not perform as advertised, then you have every right to return it for a replacement.  I don't know if for some reason Europe is getting all of the rejects or if some central clearing house is just running these out to find them a home.  Somebody is obviously not paying attention.  On the other hand, both of my JTV's arrived and worked flawlessly from Sweetwater.  I will say I am surprised you stuck with it, given the several disappointing, and ultimately unsatisfying replacement guitars.  It may be time if you haven't done so already to contact Line 6 customer support direct and see if you can get outside of the European supply chain or at least away from this population of guitars.

I'm not technically a reject myself, but that's 'how I originally' might been perceived when as a kid (with my parents; one of mine has been 'down' for over 5 years [natural causes], I got over that, I'm not sure I will get over the one I've still got left) I got asylum in the country and later when I got older was rightfully been placed in an asylum/#paranoidschizophrenia (been there/confirmed, twice/2-periods). I'm just a white guy, that has a big mouth, bigger than his own good. I use color to represent something like a traffic lights, some things that should stop, and some things that are fine, in my worldview, not imposed on you or others. Your feedback is specific to me, mine is general/'broadcasting' what's on my mind. Although colors in China on the trading-floor is reversed, so I might be as well been giving a go-ahead for something I don't even understand; what the lollipop is happening? Well, eventually something/an-event (hopefully nothing ominous) or someone will clarify.

 

In this case, I'm not crazy. My further interpretations, however, might be. I'm not even sure how this post, what I've written right here, is supposed to be interpreted. I have a good will, however, I think. I don't want to be out of line. I'm keeping my colors, to a minimum. When I do use colors, and no one is sure about my intent, point me clearly. Because Tom & Jerry, was only funny, because it wasn't real..

 

EDIT:

If there is an intended distribution of (Yamaha) Line 6 JTV/etc.. guitars within certain continents, and/or areas, then they should be labeled clearly. And sold as such! Like specific dealers tend to do with their own stock. This way you keep the financial losses to a minimum, without risking brand quality losses and the consequential possible yet again financial losses. Right now, currently, I've the feeling based on feedback over here, that the dealers are being duped by their own policy, or by a certain level of pragmatism. I want to change that. Because this is not cool.

 

EDIT: from typo to spelling intent + clarity.

Edited September 2, 2015 by ZenBalancer

[Leftzilla]

I am not sure what you are saying in this post, but I certainly meant no offense in mine if you took it that way. I meant rejected guitars. It does seem strange that you would receive so many unacceptable guitars in a row.

[ZenBalancer]

I am not sure what you are saying in this post, but I certainly meant no offense in mine if you took it that way. I meant rejected guitars. It does seem strange that you would receive so many unacceptable guitars in a row.

 

My condition: #paranoidschizophrenia

 

It's not your fault. Thank you for clarifying that. I'm sure I'm not the only one that might in the future reading this somewhere someday appreciate your clarity  ^_^  :ph34r:

:lol:  :blink: