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brianstoner

Helix Tap Tempo Issue

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Find the knob or the time... PRESS it... that will switch it into note-sync mode.... then the tap tempo will work.

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drew is spot on - most of the "time based" effects (delay, chorus) will have the option to select between tempo based or traditional measurements (ms or hz).  I personally write most presets to be based of the tempo, just in case the drummer is overzealous on a tempo I can just tap the new tempo in and everything sounds correct!

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I have been programming my new Helix and I have not been able to get the tap tempo switch to affect any of the time based effects. It simply changes the tempo of the flash and shows up as a change in the tempo window but does not change the time parameter in any presets at all! Changing the time parameter from ms to beat divisions did not work. 😕

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After I updated the firmware, the tap tempo will now change the delay time parameter but only when it is set to beat divisions. The tap tempo switch will not affect the delay time when the time parameter is set to display the time in ms. Is there a logical reason for this? Unless one was using the tap tempo for the looper function, it should be programmable per preset to control the delay time in both ms and/or beat divisions. One users opinion.  :)

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After I updated the firmware, the tap tempo will now change the delay time parameter but only when it is set to beat divisions. The tap tempo switch will not affect the delay time when the time parameter is set to display the time in ms. Is there a logical reason for this? Unless one was using the tap tempo for the looper function, it should be programmable per preset to control the delay time in both ms and/or beat divisions. One users opinion.  :)

 

That is per design, and that's the way it's always worked. I'm not exactly sure what you're asking. You can choose to set an exact millisecond value, or you can use a beat subdivision. If you want to save a preset where the delay is synced to a specific tempo, you can manually set the BPM by touching the tap footswitch (assuming you have the capacitive touch feature turned on).

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Thank you very much for responding! I'm sorry that I did not state my question/issue more clearly. I like to dial in a certain delay time in milliseconds for a particular preset, save it that way, and then be able to stomp on the tap tempo switch, if I so desire, while performing to alter that preset time a bit one way or the other. When I set the time in milliseconds and then toggle the knob to beat divisions it changes the milliseconds setting somewhat so I just figure why not be able to use the tap tempo switch to change delay times regardless of whether the time parameter is displaying milliseconds or beat divisions. So it's really just the issue of my preferring to set the delay time in exact milliseconds and not wanting to deal with toggling the knob to beat divisions, and losing that exact time in milliseconds, just to be able to use the tap function. This is really long winded, I apologize for that. Did I mention that I absolutely love the Helix?!!! I know that this is a nitpicky thing. Thanks for bearing with me on this and thanks again for taking the time to respond. 

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Thank you very much for responding! I'm sorry that I did not state my question/issue more clearly. I like to dial in a certain delay time in milliseconds for a particular preset, save it that way, and then be able to stomp on the tap tempo switch, if I so desire, while performing to alter that preset time a bit one way or the other. When I set the time in milliseconds and then toggle the knob to beat divisions it changes the milliseconds setting somewhat so I just figure why not be able to use the tap tempo switch to change delay times regardless of whether the time parameter is displaying milliseconds or beat divisions. So it's really just the issue of my preferring to set the delay time in exact milliseconds and not wanting to deal with toggling the knob to beat divisions, and losing that exact time in milliseconds, just to be able to use the tap function. This is really long winded, I apologize for that. Did I mention that I absolutely love the Helix?!!! I know that this is a nitpicky thing. Thanks for bearing with me on this and thanks again for taking the time to respond. 

 

No problem.

 

Setting the BPM manually like I mentioned above and saving the patch may give you a workable compromise, assuming you have tap tempo set per preset rather than globally. Other than that, I guess the other option is to simply have multiple delay blocks in your patch, and have one of them set to a specific millisecond value and the other set to a note value.

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...I like to dial in a certain delay time in milliseconds for a particular preset, save it that way, and then be able to stomp on the tap tempo switch, if I so desire, while performing to alter that preset time a bit one way or the other. When I set the time in milliseconds and then toggle the knob to beat divisions it changes the milliseconds setting somewhat so I just figure why not be able to use the tap tempo switch to change delay times regardless of whether the time parameter is displaying milliseconds or beat divisions. So it's really just the issue of my preferring to set the delay time in exact milliseconds and not wanting to deal with toggling the knob to beat divisions, and losing that exact time in milliseconds, just to be able to use the tap function. This is really long winded, I apologize for that. Did I mention that I absolutely love the Helix?!!! I know that this is a nitpicky thing. ...

 

I don't think this is nitpicking at all!  I think this is the way many of us would like to be able to use the tap tempo. I would love to see Line6 change the behavior so that you could preset the millisecond(ms) value and still use tap tempo to override the ms value by clicking the Tap footswitch.  That would be ideal and would definitely be the way I used the Helix! You should put this idea in IdeaScale.

 

 

That is per design, and that's the way it's always worked. I'm not exactly sure what you're asking. You can choose to set an exact millisecond value, or you can use a beat subdivision. If you want to save a preset where the delay is synced to a specific tempo, you can manually set the BPM by touching the tap footswitch (assuming you have the capacitive touch feature turned on).

 

I remember being mystified when I first started using the Helix by the fact that the Tap did not work unless I had the effect block set to a subdivision. You were actually the one who clued me into that fact (thanks!). You are right you can use the capacitive touch feature but that may not be much help when you are out playing a gig unless you are playing barefoot. I think allowing the option for tap tempo to adjust the tempo on a preset with either beat subdivisions (e.g. 1/4, 1/16) or set with milliseconds is the way to go. Of course you would have to either default to a 1/4 subdivision for the tap footswitch or offer an additional beat parameter for subdivision, either global, or better yet, per preset.

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Is the tempo really working? Have the latest 1.06 SW. It seems that it works as should with certain delays like the tape delay and simple delay but try e.g. Elephant man. I have set 1/4 note value and when trying with tempo less than 120 it starts go weird... Does not matter if you try set a slow tempo with tapping the button or touching the button and then when tempo setting appear turn tempo knob... Could there be a SW bug with some delay models? I have not yet tried which model seem to work and which not but will experiment soon.

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Continuing my previous post...

Seems that Bucket brigade and Elephant man are the ones that behave strangely?

1/4 setting and trying tempo values lower than 120.

When just rolling the tempo value down with the knob revealed by touching the TAP button it seems that tempo lowers but then at certain points jump up. When you just keep rolling tempo down it does this for few times but the real tempo obviously does not match at all what is should be.

Not familiar with the real ones that these models model but would doubt they behave like this?

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Continuing my previous post...

Seems that Bucket brigade and Elephant man are the ones that behave strangely?

1/4 setting and trying tempo values lower than 120.

When just rolling the tempo value down with the knob revealed by touching the TAP button it seems that tempo lowers but then at certain points jump up. When you just keep rolling tempo down it does this for few times but the real tempo obviously does not match at all what is should be.

Not familiar with the real ones that these models model but would doubt they behave like this?

 

This isn't a bug. This is per design. These delay models have shorter maximum delay times than other models, so if you tap a time that would give you a longer delay time than the maximum, it goes to a note division that would still have the delay in time. Ben Adrian describes it here at TGP.

 

Hey all, I think I know what's going on.

 

This is a maximum delay time issue. Bucket Brigade delays get noisier and exhibit more clocking noise and aliasing distortion with longer times. To be accurate, we limited the maximum delay times on bucket brigade models because they can get pretty ugly when out of their traditional range. (sidebar: this can be exploited in the Adriatic delay. set the delay time to a second or more and choose a BBD size of 1024. it will sound like an angry robot.)

 

So, we figured that if a user was tapping a tempo, being in time was most important. If a tempo was tapped out of the range of the delay, an in tempo value inside the range of the delay would be substituted.

 

So, let's examine the above example:

 

A dotted eighth note at 70 BPM is equal to 642.75 ms.

 

Maximum delay time for the Elephant Man delay is 500 ms.

 

Since the tap is out of range, the tap tempo block will intelligently switch to a related and in-tempo.

 

I’m guessing that it will halve the time, but I didn't write the DSP code for this feature, so I'm not 100% sure. In the above case a half time adjustment would give a result of 321ms, which is a dotted 16th.

 

Cheers!

Ben

 

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I like to dial in a certain delay time in milliseconds for a particular preset, save it that way, and then be able to stomp on the tap tempo switch, if I so desire, while performing to alter that preset time a bit one way or the other...

 

I don't think, logically speaking, that you can expect that.

 

if you want to tap out a tempo, you set to a note value. You can, however, set the patch to default to whatever time is stored for that note value (it's a global setting) if you want, but if you set it using ms, you are not going to also be able to tap out the tempo. How does the system know what note value to re-set the tempo to? It's a logical impossibility.

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For years, lots of devices that don't know anything about beat divisions have let you set delay time by tapping, just sets it to the average time between your taps. The MIDI-related beat/tempo stuff is certainly useful, IF you're synched to a DAW or something, but it shouldn't have replaced basic common sense tap-tempo functionality if you're not.

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This isn't a bug. This is per design. These delay models have shorter maximum delay times than other models, so if you tap a time that would give you a longer delay time than the maximum, it goes to a note division that would still have the delay in time. Ben Adrian describes it here at TGP.

 

Ok, thanks everyone, that explains.

Aimo

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I think we should be able to set tempo like I could with TC Electronic G System.

 

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Yes, I find it a little annoying that something as simple as tap tempo forces you to overthing it. Gee, why not simply tap tempo your delay time and there it goes? I came here because on most patch, my tap tempo doesn't even react to anything except flashing lights. I thought something is screwed up after I updated to 2.82.

 

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