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Helix 4CM Amp Switch Mesa V:25 and Mesa Mini-Rect Not Working

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Does anyone know how/where to get something like that produced?

 

I'm trying to see what it will take, since Line 6 does not seem interested in making the Helix function properly.

 

Have you opened up a support ticket? They seem to be handling these sorts of issues on a case by case basis.

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Have you opened up a support ticket? They seem to be handling these sorts of issues on a case by case basis.

 

Yes. A month ago. I have been going back and forth with them. They suggested that the 11K resistor will work (which it didn't). Today, I got the canned response that is now posted in the knowledgebase (... does not guarantee compatibility ...)

 

I have yet to see anyone post about a working amp. Line 6 says they tested "many popular amps and heads" but does not say which ones they tested. Mesa, Orange, and others have been mentioned here on the forum as not working.

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Hey DJ...

 

Here's a pic of the relay...

 

relay.jpg

 

relay2.jpg

 

standard OMRON,  G6E-134P-ST-US  (12VDC)

 

There is a 9 V coil version, but, the 12 VDC coil works fine at 9 VDC... I hope this helps.

 

seeya

 

Joe

 

 

Thanks.  I was wondering about the coil voltage since there doesn't seem to be as many 9 volt relays floating around

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a2dconverterguy thank you for the schematics.  I ended up building the resistor circuit with a Mesa Mark Five:25 and only got the EQ to switch and nothing on the channel.  I built the relay circuit and it functions beautifully.

 

I do have three followup questions for you if you don't mind.  I dabble in microcontrollers but don't fully grasp all the nuances of dc circuits.  Your help is greatly appreciated!

 

Are the LED's necessary in the circuit (i.e. does it help prevent current spikes into the helix?)?

 

Could a SPDT solid state relay also function well in this application?

 

I was trying to think of a way to elimnate the need to have an external power source for the relay circuit.  One of the things I thought about was using a expression pedal or CV out on the helix to power the relays.  Do you think this would work?  The expression pedal has about 3.3V across the contacts and the CV has a 5V.  I know they make lower coil voltage relays but I'm not sure of the current draw the relay circuit could put on the expression pedal or CV circuits versus what they can handle.  The power consumption ratings on the coils seem to be very low (in mW) but I'm not sure if they would work.

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

FYI, I contacted mesa about this directly.  They were trying to be helpful, but they ended up sending me the information in these threads.  It's really a Line6 Helix issue and not a Mesa issue, but I thought I'd reach out for their assistance.

 

~josh

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Hi Josh

 

I'm glad that you were able to get the switching on your MESA working with the HELIX ext. switching....

 

Unfortunately, as you found, the only way to get the switching to work is by using relays... I will try to answer your questions...

 

The LEDs in my schematic are not necessary....

 

You need two separate relays to switch the two functions... the above relay (G6E-134P-ST-US) is available with a 5 VDC coil, but, I'm not sure how much current the CV jack on the Helix can Sink... Good idea though....

 

Someone at Line6 might comment on using the CV jack as a low current power supply to drive some small relays...(the current draw for one 5VDC relay is 40mA.)

 

Seeya

 

Joe

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Hi Josh

 

I'm glad that you were able to get the switching on your MESA working with the HELIX ext. switching....

 

Unfortunately, as you found, the only way to get the switching to work is by using relays... I will try to answer your questions...

 

The LEDs in my schematic are not necessary....

 

You need two separate relays to switch the two functions... the above relay (G6E-134P-ST-US) is available with a 5 VDC coil, but, I'm not sure how much current the CV jack on the Helix can Sink... Good idea though....

 

Someone at Line6 might comment on using the CV jack as a low current power supply to drive some small relays...(the current draw for one 5VDC relay is 40mA.)

 

Seeya

 

Joe

hi joe,

may i ask you - would these relays also fit inside the helix...? my goal actually has been not to carry more than this only unit with me...

 

actually i´d say line6 should offer this kind of "relay"-mod for free...we bought a product that claims to be able to switch our amps...;-(

i heard some tech say, this kind of switching, line6 offers here, isn´t even good for our amps in the long term...

 

it seems, when they startet to realize these problems, they even offered that kind of support, as our friend JC-Tonequest here told us...they got his helix and tuned it to work for free...but when they saw, how many of us have got these problems, they seemed to cancel their support-course and now simply say "this can work, but not said it will..." 

 

that´s pretty disappointing line6! and i still hope, there´s gonna be some help, even if it doesn´t really look like it...

 

best,

rudi

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Hi Rudi, 

 

I'm not sure which internal mod Line 6 provided to JC, but, I suspect with high confidence that they installed 2 relays anchored and wired internally.

 

This is a high-risk mod unless you have electronics experience and it would void your warranty.

 

(After removing the cover and all of the nuts and screws holding the I/O board to the chassis, the mod would include un-soldering & removing the dual CV/ EXT 1/4" jack from the PCB. Then you would need to cut the pins on the EXT jack part 'short' so that they do not make contact with the circuit board anymore. Then you would wire the relay board to the jack pins and PCB traces and find a place to tap 5VDC and ground for the relay power)

 

The Relay board would look something like this 5V 2-Channel Relay Module Expansion Board....

 

2relay.jpg

 

Again, I wouldn't do anything internally on the Helix until your warranty is up.

 

I hope this helps

 

seeya

 

Joe

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Hi Rudi, 

 

I'm not sure which internal mod Line 6 provided to JC, but, I suspect with high confidence that they installed 2 relays anchored and wired internally.

 

This is a high-risk mod unless you have electronics experience and it would void your warranty.

 

(After removing the cover and all of the nuts and screws holding the I/O board to the chassis, the mod would include un-soldering & removing the dual CV/ EXT 1/4" jack from the PCB. Then you would need to cut the pins on the EXT jack part 'short' so that they do not make contact with the circuit board anymore. Then you would wire the relay board to the jack pins and PCB traces and find a place to tap 5VDC and ground for the relay power)

 

The Relay board would look something like this 5V 2-Channel Relay Module Expansion Board....

 

2relay.jpg

 

Again, I wouldn't do anything internally on the Helix until your warranty is up.

 

I hope this helps

 

seeya

 

Joe

thanks a lot! 

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...

 

I was trying to think of a way to elimnate the need to have an external power source for the relay circuit.  One of the things I thought about was using a expression pedal or CV out on the helix to power the relays.  Do you think this would work?  The expression pedal has about 3.3V across the contacts and the CV has a 5V.  I know they make lower coil voltage relays but I'm not sure of the current draw the relay circuit could put on the expression pedal or CV circuits versus what they can handle.  The power consumption ratings on the coils seem to be very low (in mW) but I'm not sure if they would work.

 

...

 

 

...

 

Someone at Line6 might comment on using the CV jack as a low current power supply to drive some small relays...(the current draw for one 5VDC relay is 40mA.)

 

Seeya

 

Joe

 

This is not exactly what I envisioned when I first posted this idea in Ideascale but it might be an even more compelling idea in light of the issues being experienced with amp switching through the "Ext Amp" output. 

 

You can vote it up here or suggest alternate implemenations: http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/Allow-CV-output-to-double-as-a-2nd-Ext-Amp-controller/790054-23508

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I'm wondering if anyone has come up with any real solutions to this issue.

 

I am still appalled at the response from Line 6, which was basically "Too bad, we don't care that we falsely advertised and used crappy cheap components instead of proper ones."

 

I have yet to see the mythical list of amplifiers that they supposedly tested.

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+1 

 

Wish I saw this thread before I brought home the helix.  Line 6:  please help us!

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Have to say I'm a bit disappointed about this.

 

My 1989 Laney Pro Tube combo doesn't switch properly either:

- the LED glows dimly when it should be off, in the clean channel mode which gets reduced in volume by about 25%

- as soon as you connect the cable you get a very loud ground loop hum.

 

Now I assumed it was the fact that my amp is nearly 30 years old - but to hear that a brand new 2555X exhibits the same problem is very disappointing.

 

I almost would go as far as to say I expect Line 6 to send out a free MIDI amp switcher unit as the Helix does not work - or maybe we should all return our Helix's and get them "repaired" with the mod above as they are obviously broken.

 

EDIT:  ^ That last sentence sounds like I'm a bit annoyed.  This is true but I do still love my Helix even with this fault.  I guess I can live with making up a cable/box with relays in or buying a MIDI gizmo type thing for all the other good stuff the Helix does.

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Line 6 is just completely ignoring this issue. Still no response and not a single confirmed working amplifier.

 

 

This is the line 6 response to a ticket that I raised for a gound loop problem between the helix ext amp and my amplifier's footswitch connection (Marshall JCM 2000 DSL 100):

 

Hector,

Thanks for your reply. We have not heard of any incompatibility with the specific amp you're using. We cannot guarantee 100% compatibility with every manufacturer's amp but "ground" hums are not always easily identified as to the exact cause. There is a potential for a ground loop any time there is more than one piece of gear with a three prong power plug hooked together with audio cables. It’s a complicated thing to diagnose because sometimes there are buzzes from something being actually wrong and broken or hooked up in correctly. Other times, everything can be perfect, but the multiple paths to ground are slightly different and that difference generated a 60 cycle hum at the strength of the ground potential difference. Let me know if you have any further questions after thoroughly trouble shooting.

Kind regards,

Jason-Line 6 support

 

 

Today I´ll do the relax box with only 1 relay and a TS cable, because I Only need the channel change, no need reverb or eq change!

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I have a Mesa boogie mark v:25 and the switching works flawlessly with the Helix LT. Don't know if it has a different relay but it works.

 

/A

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This is the line 6 response to a ticket that I raised for a gound loop problem between the helix ext amp and my amplifier's footswitch connection (Marshall JCM 2000 DSL 100):

 

Hector,

Thanks for your reply. We have not heard of any incompatibility with the specific amp you're using. We cannot guarantee 100% compatibility with every manufacturer's amp but "ground" hums are not always easily identified as to the exact cause. There is a potential for a ground loop any time there is more than one piece of gear with a three prong power plug hooked together with audio cables. It’s a complicated thing to diagnose because sometimes there are buzzes from something being actually wrong and broken or hooked up in correctly. Other times, everything can be perfect, but the multiple paths to ground are slightly different and that difference generated a 60 cycle hum at the strength of the ground potential difference. Let me know if you have any further questions after thoroughly trouble shooting.

Kind regards,

Jason-Line 6 support

 

 

Today I´ll do the relax box with only 1 relay and a TS cable, because I Only need the channel change, no need reverb or eq change!

I have cut the ground connection of the TRS cable that goes from the amp FT SW to the Helix EXT AMP. The hum and terrible noise disappeared!

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I have other issue with amp switching:
 

After several hours testing the amp switching, I have found this issue with my Mesa Electra Dyne.
 
When I assign my amp channels in snapshot mode to a new preset, lets say: footswitch 1(green ch), fooswitch 2 (blue 2) and footswitch 3 (red ch) in command center, and press SAVE.
It works. SWITCH 3 CHANNELS
 
When I add a effects loops block to my preset, and press SAVE.
It  continue working. SWITCH 3 CHANNELS
 
When I add any effect block, and press SAVE.
The green channel is gone, and replaced with the red channel, so STOPS WORKING 3 CHANNELS. So TIP and RING are not working any more when adding block.
 
Looks like the TRS 3 options: Tip, Ring, Tip+Ring cannot be handled when used with effects blocks... I only works with the Effects loop block...
Any ideas on this...I haven't tried it with old firmwares, I just got this device and installed the new updgrade...
 
Hope you have an idea or somebody tell me what am I  doing wrong...

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Hey guys. I just got a Line 6 HX effects pedal and channel switching is working with my Mesa Boogie Rectoverb 25.

 

  • Latest firmware 2.50
  • Guitar cable from exp1 line out to mesa boogie footswitch in
  • Global settings - set exp1 to exr amp and left set at tip1
  • Controller assignment to activate amp switching with footswitch 1.

So it's not a Helix but it does work with HX Effects.

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Yeah I have both the Mark V:25 and Rectoverb 25 and have no problem switching channels from the Helix. I only use a 1/4 inch instrument cable for both (just to switch channels, not to use the EQ switching on the Mark). I remember this thread from before I got the Helix and I was expecting to run into problems but it always just worked for me.

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