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jaeger28

So what are you developers working on?

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Care about sharing what is in the pipeline?

Just bugfixes or new toys for us to play with?

 

Would be great to get some idea about what's coming ...

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.. Which really grinds my gears. I won't even look at the Helix until some updates come out with at LEAST the effects from the FM4

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Next up is a build-your-own spy satellite kit. Comes with a hamster wheel, a couple of AA batteries, and a bottle of aspirin. The rest is up to you...$39.95. Ships Easter morning.

 

Pre-order at www.theywillneversayadamnthingaboutfutureproducts.com

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I'm not asking about future products. This is the Helix forum, I was wondering how development time is being prioritised right now. Bugfixing. New FX. New Amps. You name it.

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As a publicly traded company they are not at liberty to divulge work in progress until a certain point.

 

This is absolutely not true. I think you posted this before. As a publicly traded company, they can divulge any work in progress they wish to. It does not necessarily make good business sense, but there is absolutely no law against it.

 

The reason Line 6 and other companies do not disclose information are purely business reasons.

 

To answer the original question, Line 6 has a long standing policy of not advertising what may or may not be included in future updates or products, as it makes it more difficult for them to change their minds since they have to deal with the subsequent backlash. It's pretty standard customer expectation management.

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This is absolutely not true. I think you posted this before. As a publicly traded company, than can divulge any work in progress they wish to. It does not necessarily make good business sense, but there is absolutely no law against it.

 

The reason Line 6 and other companies do not disclose information are purely business reasons.

 

To answer the original question, Line 6 has a long standing policy of not advertising what may or may not be included in future updates or products, as it makes it more difficult for them to change their minds since they have to deal with the subsequent backlash. It's pretty standard customer expectation management.

Nope not posted it before. Just repeating what Digital Igloo stated.

 

Nope, and we've discussed it ad nauseum on more than a dozen threads. Basically, it deals with deferred revenue, trade law, and believe it or not, Enron. No company is allowed to promise (or by extension, state something that could be inferred as a promise) anything without deferring revenue until said promise is fulfilled. Smaller independent companies, while still on the hook, are rarely baited, but larger, publicly-traded companies such as Line 6's parent, Yamaha, are under close scrutiny at all times.

 

The only reason Apple's able to announce products or features many months in advance is because they have billions in cash and can afford to defer revenue.

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Nope not posted it before. Just repeating what Digital Igloo stated.

 

Nope, and we've discussed it ad nauseum on more than a dozen threads. Basically, it deals with deferred revenue, trade law, and believe it or not, Enron. No company is allowed to promise (or by extension, state something that could be inferred as a promise) anything without deferring revenue until said promise is fulfilled. Smaller independent companies, while still on the hook, are rarely baited, but larger, publicly-traded companies such as Line 6's parent, Yamaha, are under close scrutiny at all times.

 

The only reason Apple's able to announce products or features many months in advance is because they have billions in cash and can afford to defer revenue.

 

 

Hmmm. I'd be interested in seeing the reference number of the law that is being referred to here. The most likely thing being referenced is Sarbanes-Oxley which came in partially as a response to Enron. It basically says put in more controls, and more disclosure to eliminate fraud opportunities and increase accurate reporting of assets, but does nothing like that noted above. ASC 820 requires fair-value assessment of assets but again, that has little to do with the above statement.

 

Deferring revenue may be a reference to accrual accounting vs cash accounting. Other than that, if someone has a link that describes what is being discussed here I'd be interested to read it.

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I do hope they prioritize the bug fixing. Especially the black screen and the inability to save preset, setlist or bundle in the PC program. These two are number 1 priority to me - until then my Helix is just a fancy paper weight.

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Don't worry, they are most likely working on the next gen helix. Lol I couldn't hold that one back.

 

Most likely busy with bug fixes:)

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Most likely they are heavy into bug fixes and getting an editor/librarian program up that is stable and usable.... new amps, features, etc. are probably six months to a year away, at least, from their development calendar.  They have the company riding on Helix right now, so nothing short of perfecting it based on user feed back is happening, with top priority probably on the black screen issue and patch librarian software.... if they don't get those two fixed pretty damn quick they run the risk of Helix tanking no matter how good the rest is..... have had only one issue with mine, minor in the scheme of things, but am praying I don't have the black screen death happen and lose all the patches I've made..... the a Helix sounds fantastic but it does need to be stable and recoverable as well.... sure they'll get this done shortly.

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Yes line 6 has to get the bugs fixed.

This is a really good product but I see line 6 making this platform more steady.

 

Everyone in here knows this does not have the years put in that fractal has.

Luckily this is on a different price range than axe fx and most people are giving the devs a chance to work out the small things.

 

If done right we all will be happy with the helix. This just needs to happen before other brands hit this price point in this market.

 

Boss/ Roland is due to put something new and to be honest the gt100 was pretty good and if they fired back with a new well polished unit right now with = dsp and a touch screen thing could be real close on sales.

 

But I'm sure line 6 put in a lot of thought planning this move with the helix and I see them working on fixing the bugs and making the helix the best it can be to secure a solid foot hold on this level of the market.

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...Pre-order at www.theywillneversayadamnthingaboutfutureproducts.com...

 

hey, this link does not work :P

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This is absolutely not true. I think you posted this before. As a publicly traded company, they can divulge any work in progress they wish to. It does not necessarily make good business sense, but there is absolutely no law against it.

 

The reason Line 6 and other companies do not disclose information are purely business reasons.

 

Are you an attorney specializing in trade law? If not, cool—I'm not either, but Line 6 employs them, and I just reiterate what I've been told. True—even if that Enron debacle didn't generate all these new rulings and guidelines, we wouldn't show our roadmap to the masses (that'd be really stupid), but smaller companies have been sued to oblivion for less.

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Hey Digital_lgoo

Even the newbies ( like me) have learned that you can't disclose what you are working on.

The net is filled with brilliant people that know everything , law, Dr, engineering and so on.

 

But with saying that, none of us expected you or any other line 6 staff to respond to this thread or any like it.

Kinda like beating a dead horse. We all have seen the line six crew stand on this policy.

 

You say you can lose your job, that is a good explanation for all of us.

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Here's as an exclusive link to the next generation of effects processing :D .  I warn you though, once you see this "leaked" version.  You will through your current rig away :o .  So here it is the next generation..... oh and one more thing..... it's designed for you mobile users in mind.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DcqnkzGEFQ

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Are you an attorney specializing in trade law? If not, cool—I'm not either, but Line 6 employs them, and I just reiterate what I've been told. True—even if that Enron debacle didn't generate all these new rulings and guidelines, we wouldn't show our roadmap to the masses (that'd be really stupid), but smaller companies have been sued to oblivion for less.

 

My wife works for a large publicly-traded company (a Fortune 500 company, actually), and I know that she's very careful about what she talks about publicly. They are given very strict rules as to what they can mention on social media and whatnot. Basically, the only person she really tells information to about specific projects she's working on is me. The reason it becomes a legal issue is that people will interpret bits of information as ways to influence stock prices.

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Hmmm. I'd be interested in seeing the reference number of the law that is being referred to here. The most likely thing being referenced is Sarbanes-Oxley which came in partially as a response to Enron. It basically says put in more controls, and more disclosure to eliminate fraud opportunities and increase accurate reporting of assets, but does nothing like that noted above. ASC 820 requires fair-value assessment of assets but again, that has little to do with the above statement.

 

Deferring revenue may be a reference to accrual accounting vs cash accounting. Other than that, if someone has a link that describes what is being discussed here I'd be interested to read it.

 

I don't read in to this that it is a law; rather a business practice and possibly an E&O and liability insurance requirement.  The individual employees have more than likely also signed NDA's for every aspect of the development cycle.  I have plenty of limitations in my regular business, including only getting one drink ticket per person at the company holiday party.  Why?  Because that's what the insurance company tells us to do.  Again, why?  Because that's what the lawyers tell them to do.  Finally, why?  Because some a-holes somewhere litigated over it.

 

L6 could disclose anything they want.  They simply run the risk of being held to their word.  It would also seriously lollipop off the higher ups.  It would certainly be a poor business practice as it presents an expectation, but that could be disclaimered all over the place.  Finally, it would cost people their jobs if actual Non-Disclosure Agreements and Confidentiality Agreements were violated.

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There was a time (a long time ago, in a galaxy far far away) when Line 6 was a lot more open with their plans. And it bit them back, big time. Some things didn't materialize, and others took way longer than they anticipated. And since nothing ever happens the way everyone wants, there was a lot of turmoil on the forum because of it. There was so much negative commotion that the policy was changed to we'll say little to nothing about our future until we KNOW it's ready or close to ready and will definitely be out soon. i don't blame them. It took up a lot of the "space" on the forum at the time.

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...none of us expected you or any other line 6 staff to respond to this thread or any like it.

 

You say you can lose your job, that is a good explanation for all of us.

Actually, due mostly to the virtually limitless sense of entitlement possessed by a generation raised on wildly unrealistic expectations and participation trophies, there will always be those who will get all butt-hurt whenever they're denied inside info to which they've decided they "should" have access. Expect their numbers to grow going forward...and for the complaints to be accompanied by an indignant selfie.

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Are you an attorney specializing in trade law? If not, cool—I'm not either, but Line 6 employs them, and I just reiterate what I've been told. True—even if that Enron debacle didn't generate all these new rulings and guidelines, we wouldn't show our roadmap to the masses (that'd be really stupid), but smaller companies have been sued to oblivion for less.

 

Hi DI,

 

I'm sorry if you were offended by what I wrote, but would prefer not to have misinformation repeated as it gets into our psyche. As I said, if someone can explain why that would be the case legally, then I'm all ears. The whole point of discussions is to increase our collective knowledge, so if you don't agree with someone, you should speak out so that we all learn. My understanding of the law is as stated previously, but if someone can correct that with evidence, then I'll change my mind happily.

 

As pointed out by others, publicly traded companies have to be very careful with disclosure of information, but not in the way described. It is to do with disclosure of material facts, ie. facts that would affect the stock price, and timing and equal distribution of that knowledge to ensure interested parties are on a level playing field. A consequence of this is that if you are in possession of material information that the public is not, you cannot trade stock until that information has been made public. But, as far as I know, there is nothing illegal about a company promising something if they believe it is genuinely true, then changing their minds and making that public too. It happens all the time. It is ony illegal if it was never true, and was done to manipulate the stock market.

 

As I also said, not showing your roadmaps for business reasons is perfectly normal. I don't know why you had such a strong reaction to what I wrote since as far as I can tell, you agree with it. Sorry if for some reason it offended you.

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I would imagine all the Line 6 guys are touchy about this as it has been beat to,death on here many times with complete explanations why their policy is what it is. Yet it comes up constantly like this. I am not sure how they can prevent it as new people Jon every day and no one would read a disclaimer. There best bet might be to delete any conversation like this that is currently active and make zero reply to any new question like this. I do not want to try to paraphrase the explanations because I am sure I would mix something up.

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Actually, due mostly to the virtually limitless sense of entitlement possessed by a generation raised on wildly unrealistic expectations and participation trophies, there will always be those who will get all butt-hurt whenever they're denied inside info to which they've decided they "should" have access. Expect their numbers to grow going forward...and for the complaints to be accompanied by an indignant selfie.

Ok I can see your point but maybe you are forgetting about the new guy who scraped up $1499 to buy a helix and it's freezing up and doing the black screen. And they come here for answers maybe not even signing up. And the ones that do sign up are attacked for even asking about the new line 6 product they just got and at that moment they feel like the stupidest person ever for spending that much money on a helix they can't trust to play a gig.

 

Luckily I read the forum a lot before joining and before I bought my helix. So I'm not bugging the devs about it, I found out a few problems after I ordered the helix by reading in here. And the guys at line 6 have dropped hints about getting the bugs worked out.

 

I would love to know when my helix will work properly but I haven't asked that ever in one of my post. I'm just keeping the date in my mind of when I got it and the day that return expires. Hope line 6 fixes bugs I have before then because I will not be butt hurt with a product that is faulty.

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Ok after saying that I will say I really like my helix and I believe I will keep it for along time, I do believe the line6 dev's will get this sorted out. So far out of all the many fx boards I have had. This is the best looking, sounding and easiest to use.

 

So I'm working around the few glitches it has till the fix is here. I've had mine less than two weeks so I've still got a lot of time to wait.

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Asking the people at Line 6 for information that hasn't been released yet is asking for "inside information." That is, material information about a publicly traded company which is known by the company's board of directors, management, and/or employees but not by the public. The SEC forbids trading of stock based on such information and can seek fines or criminal prosecution under these circumstances. This definition also applies to anyone outside of the company who somehow had access to that information and acted on that information for their personal benefit.

 

Inside information is also kept within the company to avoid giving competitors an advantage.

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Asking the people at Line 6 for information that hasn't been released yet is asking for "inside information." That is, material information about a publicly traded company which is known by the company's board of directors, management, and/or employees but not by the public. The SEC forbids trading of stock based on such information and can seek fines or criminal prosecution under these circumstances. This definition also applies to anyone outside of the company who somehow had access to that information and acted on that information for their personal benefit.

 

Inside information is also kept within the company to avoid giving competitors an advantage.

 

Sort of, except for clarification of the first and last sentences.

 

Once the information is disclosed and is generally accessible, it is by definition, public. i.e.: no longer "inside information". So from a legal standpoint, nothing prevents the company from disclosing product information. There is a requirement to disburse the information efficiently (i.e.: so that everyone gets access to the information at the same time), and usually this would be done as an announcement while the trading of stock is halted. The problem is when information has not been made public that will affect the share price. Anyone holding that information is not allowed to trade.

 

As I said a few times above, inside information is routinely kept within companies for various very good Business reasons. Competitive advantage, customer expectation management, NDAs (although this is also a legal reason), etc.

 

To go back to my first post, while Line 6 could disclose their product roadmap, they have made a long-standing business decision not to, and it is pointless asking.

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Ok I can see your point but maybe you are forgetting about the new guy who scraped up $1499 to buy a helix and it's freezing up and doing the black screen. And they come here for answers maybe not even signing up. And the ones that do sign up are attacked for even asking about the new line 6 product they just got and at that moment they feel like the stupidest person ever for spending that much money on a helix they can't trust to play a gig.

 

Line 6 are going to focus their attention on bug reports raised through the proper reporting channels.  They will not have the resources to scour internet fora looking for things which may or may not be bugs and may not even be first hand experiences.  That applies to this forum just as much as any other.  So the "new guy who scraped up $1499 to buy a helix and it's freezing up and doing the black screen" should log a problem report through the Line 6 support system to ensure it officially registers on the consciousness of the approriate Line 6 development department.  That way an investigation and ultimately a fix is far more probable.  Just moaning about it on here isn't going to get the problem fixed.

 

Boards like this are great for finding out about issues, discussing work arounds etc etc.  However they do not act as a substitute for reporting problems the right way and nor should they.

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Sort of, except for clarification of the first and last sentences.

 

Once the information is disclosed and is generally accessible, it is by definition, public. i.e.: no longer "inside information". So from a legal standpoint, nothing prevents the company from disclosing product information. There is a requirement to disburse the information efficiently (i.e.: so that everyone gets access to the information at the same time), and usually this would be done as an announcement while the trading of stock is halted. The problem is when information has not been made public that will affect the share price. Anyone holding that information is not allowed to trade.

 

As I said a few times above, inside information is routinely kept within companies for various very good Business reasons. Competitive advantage, customer expectation management, NDAs (although this is also a legal reason), etc.

 

To go back to my first post, while Line 6 could disclose their product roadmap, they have made a long-standing business decision not to, and it is pointless asking.

I agree. The only thing for me to add would be the fact that release of inside information is most likely left to someone in upper management and not within the job description of the gear heads who help us. In fact, we'd probably never hear from them again!

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Ok I can see your point but maybe you are forgetting about the new guy who scraped up $1499 to buy a helix and it's freezing up and doing the black screen. And they come here for answers maybe not even signing up. And the ones that do sign up are attacked for even asking about the new line 6 product they just got and at that moment they feel like the stupidest person ever for spending that much money on a helix they can't trust to play a gig.

 

Luckily I read the forum a lot before joining and before I bought my helix. So I'm not bugging the devs about it, I found out a few problems after I ordered the helix by reading in here. And the guys at line 6 have dropped hints about getting the bugs worked out.

 

I would love to know when my helix will work properly but I haven't asked that ever in one of my post. I'm just keeping the date in my mind of when I got it and the day that return expires. Hope line 6 fixes bugs I have before then because I will not be butt hurt with a product that is faulty.

I never said malfunctioning gear shouldn't be fixed. I never said that being cranky that your new gear isn't working isn't justified. What I did say, is that those who continue to ask...time and time again..."Hey L6, what does product development have up their sleeve next?", are hopelessly naive if they actually think that an answer will EVER be forthcoming.

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I would love to know when my helix will work properly but I haven't asked that ever in one of my post. I'm just keeping the date in my mind of when I got it and the day that return expires. Hope line 6 fixes bugs I have before then because I will not be butt hurt with a product that is faulty.

 

He has a very good point there and it is something that I will be keeping in the back of my mind as well.  If I had a Helix right now and I got to the last day I could return it and these issues were still not fixed, I would return it.  Thankfully I still have a few weeks to wait before mine even shows up so I am hoping these things are ironed out before then.  Still, when you pay $1499 for something, there is an expectation of it being useable, albeit yes with some bugs that need to be ironed out.  But some people are using these for live performances and are citing issues that would make me very leery of using them at all.  I don't think asking for a formal statement on when these issues will be fixed is going over the top.  I do personally think that they should be a little more transparent with what bug fixes they are working on, especially when people are getting near the halfway mark on their return windows.  It might instill a little more confidence in people.  I think the problem comes in when you guys start asking for future development plans as well.    

 

I did ask this question last week, politely, and got an answer for DI.  Still even with this, it would be nice if they posted some acknowledgements of the issue, what they are doing to solve it and any known steps to avoid it until it is solved.

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/16328-black-screen-of-death-and-freezing-issues/

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Oh. My. Good. What a lollipopstorm have I started?

 

I just wanted to know what are the priorities for the next Helix release.

 

I didn't ask to know any policy secrets, NRS action plans or super secret anti materials reactors tech.

 

I doubt any stock broker will give a lollipop if there is a new phaser coming or a new amp model in the next release, or if it's only bug fixes. Let's all keep this civilized shall we? So if no developer is at liberty to speak about it, and no marketing executive bothers to read and write in this forums, fair enough so shall be it. Then just let this thread be and it will go down in the depths of the never-more-read page 759 of new threads.

 

If there is more talk about stock secrets and other BS, then I'd politely ask the admins to close or delete this thread.

 

Thank you.

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As I also said, not showing your roadmaps for business reasons is perfectly normal. I don't know why you had such a strong reaction to what I wrote since as far as I can tell, you agree with it. Sorry if for some reason it offended you.

Sorry, ozbadman—I need to remember to use smileys! I took no offense at all.

 

Here's a link that explains what's going on a bit better.

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Actually, due mostly to the virtually limitless sense of entitlement possessed by a generation raised on wildly unrealistic expectations and participation trophies, there will always be those who will get all butt-hurt whenever they're denied inside info to which they've decided they "should" have access. Expect their numbers to grow going forward...and for the complaints to be accompanied by an indignant selfie.

Participation Trophies Rule LMAO!

 

exchellent post!

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super secret anti materials reactors tech.

 

... Ok, I would like to know when this will be implemented in my Helix and how close will it's use get me to beating the pants off the AXE FX, I mean they just use plutonium right?

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Sorry, ozbadman—I need to remember to use smileys! I took no offense at all.

 

Here's a link that explains what's going on a bit better.

 

OK. Cool. Yeah, the internet is a bit like that.

 

The link refers to deferred income and is part of accrual accounting. It is an attempt to make company accounts more accurately reflect the true state of the company and is the norm for most companies. Without wanting to restart this, it is not related to public vs private information and unfulfilled promises, which are however, as you stated, sensible business decisions.

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I do hope they prioritize the bug fixing. Especially the black screen and the inability to save preset, setlist or bundle in the PC program. These two are number 1 priority to me - until then my Helix is just a fancy paper weight.

I got the black screen once when I updated to the most recent update.  Reset the the unit as explained in the update release and haven't had the problem since.  And while I haven't been able to save Bundles I have been able to save set lists and retrieve them and all the work placed into them.  Have you tried the factory reset?

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Line 6 are going to focus their attention on bug reports raised through the proper reporting channels.  They will not have the resources to scour internet fora looking for things which may or may not be bugs and may not even be first hand experiences.  That applies to this forum just as much as any other.  So the "new guy who scraped up $1499 to buy a helix and it's freezing up and doing the black screen" should log a problem report through the Line 6 support system to ensure it officially registers on the consciousness of the approriate Line 6 development department.  That way an investigation and ultimately a fix is far more probable.  Just moaning about it on here isn't going to get the problem fixed.

 

Boards like this are great for finding out about issues, discussing work arounds etc etc.  However they do not act as a substitute for reporting problems the right way and nor should they.

Good point I posted my two bugs/ glitches I'm having under the helix bug thread up top of the page.

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Oh. My. Good. What a lollipopstorm have I started?

 

I just wanted to know what are the priorities for the next Helix release.

 

I didn't ask to know any policy secrets, NRS action plans or super secret anti materials reactors tech.

 

I doubt any stock broker will give a lollipop if there is a new phaser coming or a new amp model in the next release, or if it's only bug fixes. Let's all keep this civilized shall we? So if no developer is at liberty to speak about it, and no marketing executive bothers to read and write in this forums, fair enough so shall be it. Then just let this thread be and it will go down in the depths of the never-more-read page 759 of new threads.

 

If there is more talk about stock secrets and other BS, then I'd politely ask the admins to close or delete this thread.

 

Thank you.

Ya. That was sort of the point of my earlier posts. New guys come in and ask like you did and every time this kicks off. You didn't know any better but I do not know how to prevent it from happening again.

 

I think they could safely say what bugs they are working I as that really does not affect things much. But as for new features like more phasers, amps, etc, that is exactly the type of thing they can not talk about . It could affect sales, stocks and more. Then if they are not able to come through for some reason it opens up a new can of worms.

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Look guys...the employees of Line 6 have been told to NOT talk about it. That's the bottom line.

As for the "legality" of it...of course that's not the true legality. If it were...then they wouldn't have "legally" been allowed to talk about Helix at all until the day it hit stores.
Instead, they talked about it constantly and what it could do and even made videos to show us for months in advance.

So yes....they can legally tell us what they are working on. Just like anyone can.

But NO...they can NOT tell us what the next update may or may not have because their employment and livelihood depend on it.

In my humble opinion they should have a sticky on the forum that is locked and can't be posted in that simply has Digital Igloo saying that under no circumstances will anyone be told what is in the next update.
No need for trying to talk about "legality". Just a simple message that says "NO".  That way new people to the forum won't be pissed off and confused anymore. :)

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Look guys...the employees of Line 6 have been told to NOT talk about it. That's the bottom line.

 

As for the "legality" of it...of course that's not the true legality. If it were...then they wouldn't have "legally" been allowed to talk about Helix at all until the day it hit stores.

Instead, they talked about it constantly and what it could do and even made videos to show us for months in advance.

 

So yes....they can legally tell us what they are working on. Just like anyone can.

 

But NO...they can NOT tell us what the next update may or may not have because their employment and livelihood depend on it.

 

In my humble opinion they should have a sticky on the forum that is locked and can't be posted in that simply has Digital Igloo saying that under no circumstances will anyone be told what is in the next update.

No need for trying to talk about "legality". Just a simple message that says "NO".  That way new people to the forum won't be pissed off and confused anymore. :)

 

That is all very easy for those of us that know and love this company to say, but as it has been mentioned on here already, the completely new guy that doesn't know anything about Line6 and just bought a $1499 piece of equipment that isn't working right and he hasn't done his research needs to know what's going on.  I would say that a simple list of confirmed bugs from the staff would be enough to let that newbie know that his issue is being worked on. Also keeping him from returning it and forming a poor, misguided opinion of an awesome company.     

 

Although a sticky highlighting the "Don't ask about future developments" would help as well for those of us that keep wanting to peek behind the curtain.

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