POD HD without amp simulation?

[Shining]

Hi!

 

just curious...

is someone else playing the pod hd just with the pedal simulations? One day, fiddling with amp settings - digging deep with the meambobo guide - I disabled the amp by accident - and there it was - the killer warm sound full of life with just the tube drive and the mid focus eq (for the fizz) comming out of the attached active monitors. Ever since then I'm using the tube drive or the line 6 distortion as the main "amp" . E.g. two tube drives in a row gives a very distinctive warm but heavy distortion.

 

My days of tweaking these ridiculous lifeless default amp settings of the pod hd are over.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[cruisinon2]

Hi!

 

just curious...

is someone else playing the pod hd just with the pedal simulations? One day, fiddling with amp settings - digging deep with the meambobo guide - I disabled the amp by accident - and there it was - the killer warm sound full of life with just the tube drive and the mid focus eq (for the fizz) comming out of the attached active monitors. Ever since then I'm using the tube drive or the line 6 distortion as the main "amp" . E.g. two tube drives in a row gives a very distinctive warm but heavy distortion.

 

My days of tweaking these ridiculous lifeless default amp settings of the pod hd are over.

Seems a little odd, but if it works, why not?

[AlexKenivel]

Hey, why not? I run a cab Sim through a real cab and it sounds awesome

[pianoguyy]

If it works for you, great.

But if I try running without the modeling, it sounds like that same yucky sound that turned me off to 'ampless' 20+ years ago. 

 

Could I possibly spend hours tweaking to get the right set of fx blocks to make it sound ok, sure I could. 

But, for me, why spend all that time tweaking 8 blocks to replicate the sound that I get when I could just turn on an amp. 

[Gfer1484]

Running the POD direct to an amp or the FX loop of the amp has such a different tone effect then running it into to a monitor or PC making it a a lot harder to dial in the tone.

 

It would be nice to have a forum just based on running the POD direct to your amp or FX loop of your amp to see what kind of results others are getting by just using a TUBE AMP or SOLID STATE AMP

 

I added have added a ART HD-15 EQ to the FX loop of my amp and run the POD direct into the front of my Marshall 

[shredjsx]

I run it direct into my L3t or PC with the studio/ line level settings...

I don't use the amp out settings as I also run it through the PA at gigs and practice....

It's clearer and more responsive IMHO

[DunedinDragon]

I seem to be doing fine with all those "ridiculous lifeless default amp settings" coming out of my powered monitor.  Maybe it's your monitor not giving you a true flat response.

[cruisinon2]

Running the POD direct to an amp or the FX loop of the amp has such a different tone effect then running it into to a monitor or PC making it a a lot harder to dial in the tone.

Yes, and this will always be the case...with the POD or any other modeler. If you're running straight into the front of the amp (as opposed to the FX return), then your amp's tone stack is getting in the way and coloring everything coming from the POD. You could try the POD'S various output modes and see if you get better results, but in my experience (with this and other modelers) daisy-chaining a pre-amp and modeler together never ends well. I suspect you'll find it easier to dial in tones if you slave the head instead of plugging into the front end.

[DunedinDragon]

Exactly!!!  You have to bear in mind what the design focus of the POD (and particularly the HD series) is, which is basically a simulation of what occurs in a classical recording studio environment, or some advanced live concert stage setups, to create a proper signal chain, with the result being fed to a mixing board or some form of full range/flat response type of output.  It does leave open the option for an FX loop as that could be key to getting other external effects into that signal chain, but that's very different than looping through an external amp.  You wouldn't likely see that sort of setup in a traditional recording studio either.

 

The closer you align yourself with the design focus of the POD, the more you'll be able to optimize what it can do for you,  If you choose to deviate from the designed purpose of anything, it may work...but probably not very well.  That's why Jeeps don't commonly compete in road races and Corvettes don't typically go off-road driving.

[cruisinon2]

The closer you align yourself with the design focus of the POD, the more you'll be able to optimize what it can do for you, If you choose to deviate from the designed purpose of anything, it may work...but probably not very well. That's why Jeeps don't commonly compete in road races and Corvettes don't typically go off-road driving.

Different tools for different jobs. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight...;)

[Gfer1484]

After adding the ART HD-15 EQ I have been able to cut out a lot of the unwanted tones and create the best tone i have tried so far using the solo-100 clean amp model direct to the front of my Marshall MG100DFX. Adding the EQ opened up a new world with the POD.

 

POD HD 500X direct to EQ then direct to front of the amp

 

  http://artproaudio.com/downloads/owners_manuals/om_hd15.pdf

[cruisinon2]

After adding the ART HD-15 EQ I have been able to cut out a lot of the unwanted tones and create the best tone i have tried so far using the solo-100 clean amp model direct to the front of my Marshall MG100DFX. Adding the EQ opened up a new world with the POD.

 

POD HD 500X direct to EQ then direct to front of the amp

 

http://artproaudio.com/downloads/owners_manuals/om_hd15.pdf

If it works and you're happy, great. The point was, running straight into the front of the amp always requires extra work and/or extra gear to get it to sound right. I would bet you wouldn't need the external EQ if you went into the FX return. But if you're happy, you're happy and all is right with the world...;)

[Gfer1484]

I have run it direct to the FX return, but there was so much bottom end I could not dial/eq it out with the POD's eq's, I could setup good tones at low volume but as soon as I turned it up the boom and fizz came back, I am using the EQ's left channel through the FX loop and the EQ's right channel is direct to the front of the amp, with the POD direct to the right channel input, I can switch between the FX loop mix or direct to the front of the amp, I am having better results not using the FX loop.

 

With the 15 bands of eq and with the low cut pass and high cut pass filters it knocks out the unwanted fizz and boom.

[cruisinon2]

I have run it direct to the FX return, but there was so much bottom end I could not dial/eq it out with the POD's eq's, I could setup good tones at low volume but as soon as I turned it up the boom and fizz came back, I am using the EQ's left channel through the FX loop and the EQ's right channel is direct to the front of the amp, with the POD direct to the right channel input, I can switch between the FX loop mix or direct to the front of the amp, I am having better results not using the FX loop.

 

With the 15 bands of eq and with the low cut pass and high cut pass filters it knocks out the unwanted fizz and boom.

Fair enough. Is the amp by itself bass-heavy? 2x12, 4x12? Just curious...

[Gfer1484]

1X12 solid state, very bass-heavy, the amp would just rumble playing any drop tuning, standard tuning wasn't as bad. 

 

I play a lot of Drop C# and B

[cruisinon2]

1X12 solid state, very bass-heavy, the amp would just rumble playing any drop tuning, standard tuning wasn't as bad.

 

I play a lot of Drop C# and B

OK...now it makes sense.

[AlexKenivel]

I run studio/direct into a poweramp, but lately the fx loop of my Carvin MTS3200 (tubes) and out of my Carvin 4x12 with Gt12-75s with awesome results. I used a Carvin dcm1000 (ss) power amp as well but it's old and is malfunctioning and had to switch back to the MTS3200.

 

I think eye like solid state better. More clean headroom and way lighter without sounding drastically different than my tube amp

[cruisinon2]

I run studio/direct into a poweramp, but lately the fx loop of my Carvin MTS3200 (tubes) and out of my Carvin 4x12 with Gt12-75s with awesome results. I used a Carvin dcm1000 (ss) power amp as well but it's old and is malfunctioning and had to switch back to the MTS3200.

 

I think eye like solid state better. More clean headroom and way lighter without sounding drastically different than my tube amp

If the Carvin is DOA and not worth fixing, check out some of Rocktron's SS power amps. They have several single rack-space units with a lot of punch, and they weigh next to nothing. Had a couple of them at various times over the years...they're pretty bulletproof.

[AlexKenivel]

If the Carvin is DOA and not worth fixing, check out some of Rocktron's SS power amps. They have several single rack-space units with a lot of punch, and they weigh next to nothing. Had a couple of them at various times over the years...they're pretty bulletproof.

I think id need more than 300w SS. In bridged mode my dcm1000 put out about 800w which was a good volume vs. another guitarist and bass/drums. I have my eye on a crown XLS1500

[davidb7170]

I have the Crown XLS1000, and it has plenty of poop for the purpose. I use it in bridged mode for mono - you get 700 Watts into 8 Ohms or 1000 Watts into 4 Ohms. If you go stereo you get 215 Watts each side into 8 Ohm speaker load, or 350 Watts per side into 4 Ohms.

 

One thing I've found with solid state amps, you need twice the power rating you think you need if you're used to tube amps, to get the headroom you're used to. When you hit the actual stated power level, the SS amps are at the point of clipping.

 

Early this year, I picked up a Quilter Tone Block 200 amp - the thing is rated at 200 Watts max, and has a graduated power knob. Quilter (the former owner of QSC power amps) rated the Tone Block apparently with the power ratings in mind - think I saw something that they would normally be rated at 400 watts in the SS world.... I have not used it set higher than 100 Watts. It is mono, but puts out the same volume into 4 or 8 Ohms. Sounds very good. Its about 4 pounds, and is about the same size as my old CRATE Power Block.... I actually use the carry case from my old Power Block....

 

Dave

[pianoguyy]

???? 

 

I ran a Peavey Bandit 65 (solid state, 65 watt, 1x12) for years. Almost 3 decades. 

I never had a problem hearing myself on 'local' stages. It was only the football stadium gigs that they brought in more power for me.

 

 

It just baffles me seeing people talking about the kind of volume they need for a corner pub. 

[davidb7170]

The wattage needed varies with the venue and the noise level at them. I have not played any football stadiums or arenas, but know I need more playing in a packed beer pavilion at my local fair than at a local bar. The soundman controls the FOH mix with the instruments of course, and I use my arrangement for stage.

 

I had been using floor monitor wedge separate from the PA monitors for quite a while, but since I am 6" 6" and found my stage volume creeping up as most of the sound was hitting me about lower chest. I now use my PA style speaker on a stand, and now for most inside bar gigs rarely set my Quilter above 40 - 50 watts.

 

Speaker placement is key. At the fair with my Crown XLS1000, I would need 2 floor wedges bridged to get above the crowd noise. This year at that venue, I used the Quilter and one speaker on a stand and think I might have had it set for 100 Watts, tops.

 

I never dimed my Crown, though with the POD HD500X, but the headroom was there. The Crown's stated 215 Watts (perceived as around  100 Watts) per side was rarely enough on the floor, so I bridged it for 700 watts (rated) - the perception would be half that at about 350 watts if maxed by the input from the HD. Like I said with PA amps, the loudness is about half the amp rating -- not so with the Quilter. It's ratings relate pretty much the same loudness of a tube guitar amp of the same rating.

 

Dave

[AlexKenivel]

????

 

I ran a Peavey Bandit 65 (solid state, 65 watt, 1x12) for years. Almost 3 decades.

I never had a problem hearing myself on 'local' stages. It was only the football stadium gigs that they brought in more power for me.

 

 

It just baffles me seeing people talking about the kind of volume they need for a corner pub.

I loved my old Bandit, but I need the volume because I'm not playing jazz or oldies covers in small pubs.

[DunedinDragon]

It shouldn't matter whether you're playing jazz, oldies, or metal if everything is mic'd/direct and going through the FOH mixer.  You only need enough volume to get a good stage mix and leave sound projection to the PA.  Anything beyond that and you'll interfere with the FOH mix.

 

Aside from playing large indoor and outdoor venues, I also run sound for many of the same and the biggest issue I run into constantly are guitar players trying to compete with the main sound systerm.  With modern PA systems, particularly line arrays, you're only hurting yourself when you do this.  No amp in the world can compete with the even sound distribution of a line array, and what will end up happening is the soundman will simply cut you from the mix in order to maintain a balanced mix of vocals and instruments across the entire audience.  The result of this is, because stage amps don't deliver focused sound like a good PA system speaker does and their sound dissipates fairly quickly, the first rows of the crowd on your side of the stage will hear mostly guitar and not much else.  Once you get out a few rows and across the witdth of the audience, they will hear the balanced mix from the PA..MINUS your guitar.  In other words your guitar in the mix will vary depending on where someone is in the audience, whereas everyone else will be balanced appropriately in the mix across the entire audience.

 

Pretty much if there are 5 bands playing the event, I can almost count on one of them havng this issue.  Ultimately it's up to the band members to manage their volumes and stage mix so they can hear themselves and each other and try to keep it contained to the stage area.  It's an issue of "garbage in, garbage out".