Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
JeremiahEdward

2 Cable Tone Suck??

Recommended Posts

The tone suck in 4CM is WIDELY known with these units, but is there still tone suck if I just go Guitar > HD Input > HD Left Out > Front of amp (Fender 65 Deluxe).

 

I don't have an HD500X right now, but I'm curious. I would only use it for effects and I don't want it to trash the wounderful sounds coming from my amp. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't 4cm, so I wouldn't know if there is tone suck or not. I would take a gander and propose that if I was going to use 4cm that I would adjust my tones to adjust for any sucking that was going on. 

 

But I digress... 

 

Is there tone suck when using two cords? 

The honest answer is yes. All cables will add an amount of suck to tone regardless of the gear it is heading in to. That is why you read articles about guys saying that they use 1 foot cords in the studio - it gives the best tone. 

 

 

Here's what I can tell ya. 

I am a lifelong full time professional musician. I had a rig that I used for over 20 years. The HD500 replaced it. I am sometimes backlined and therefore don't use my own stuff, but when I do, I am using the HD500 with no complaints (once you learn how to use it). 

I don't know what more to say in regards to the tone.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The tone suck in 4CM is WIDELY known with these units, but is there still tone suck if I just go Guitar > HD Input > HD Left Out > Front of amp (Fender 65 Deluxe).

 

I don't have an HD500X right now, but I'm curious. I would only use it for effects and I don't want it to trash the wounderful sounds coming from my amp.

Running straight into the front of the amp does not work well for many FX. Especially delays, chorus, and reverb...those all need to be the last thing in the chain before the power section, or it becomes a complete mess. Distortions, overdrives, and compressors can be OK out front...but not much else.

 

If your amp has an FX loop, use it...that's what it's there for. Forget the 4CM.

 

guitar-->front of amp-->FX out-->500X--->FX in

 

 

Set up your patches on the 500X with no amp model, just whatever FX you're looking for.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Running straight into the front of the amp does not work well for many FX. Especially delays, chorus, and reverb...those all need to be the last thing in the chain before the power section, or it becomes a complete mess. Distortions, overdrives, and compressors can be OK out front...but not much else.

If your amp has an FX loop, use it...that's what it's there for. Forget the 4CM.

guitar-->front of amp-->FX out-->500X--->FX in

Set up your patches on the 500X with no amp model, just whatever FX you're looking for.

Hello,

 

I use a fender amp set up completely clean. No effects loop in it. I have just read that when using the effects loop in the pod you get a lot of tone loss. I was hoping that not using the pod effects loop I wouldn't have to worry about any tone loss. (Except normal loss from audio cables).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello,

 

I use a fender amp set up completely clean. No effects loop in it. I have just read that when using the effects loop in the pod you get a lot of tone loss. I was hoping that not using the pod effects loop I wouldn't have to worry about any tone loss. (Except normal loss from audio cables).

Well that's just it...placing certain FX before the amp, just plain doesn't work. You're messing around with the raw guitar signal before it even gets to the amp. In my experience, this does far worse things to your sound than the usual "tone suck" complaints associated with the 4CM. Generally, you want to get your basic tone first, before you start mucking around with FX. Otherwise you're kinda putting the cart before the horse. Also, anything you put between the guitar and the amp tends to add noise to the set-up.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Prior to the HD500 replacing it, my rig was built over a 10 year period, and wasn't updated in over 20 years. 

But everything ran straight in to one another. There was no fx loops or patch bays being used. One unit was plugged right into the next. 

All my amp did was supply volume and reverb (I thought it had excellent 80's reverb). Of course, today we know that it is because certain fx go before the amp and others go after. Back then, all I knew was fx reverb wasn't as good as the amp reverb.  

 

The point is, yes, you can plug things straight into an amp and make it sound good. But you have to make all of your gear work together. You don't just take a great sound amp and a great sound fx unit and then stick them together and have great sound. They need to work together. 

 

 

***

Slash auditioned for Poison but didn't get the job. Was Slash not good enough?

Bret said he was a good guitarist but not a good fit for the band. 

 

Two units need to work together to become one. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

delays work good also before the amp

Maybe it's me then...over the years I've tried the chain of stomp boxes straight into the amp numerous times, with combos, head/cab rigs. My own stuff, other guys' rigs. Always a $h*tty mess. Noisy to the point of driving me nuts, and never satisfying tone. If the OP wants nothing but clean tones, perhaps his results will be better, but for me it's a non-starter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 4CM was developed to address the deficiencies in multiFX unit's ability to break up the signal chain on both sides of the amp, not for modelers like the HD500X.  Tone suck or not, it seems to me the OP would be better off with just a multiFX board if that's what he wants to do rather than a something like the HD500X.  There's no doubt you could do it by leaving out the amp in the POD's signal chain and just using the default null amp and mixer, but it's really not designed to work that way.  And whenever you kludge something together like that you're asking for all sorts of odd behaviors.  Not to mention losing a MAJOR benefit of what the HD500X does.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The 4CM was developed to address the deficiencies in multiFX unit's ability to break up the signal chain on both sides of the amp, not for modelers like the HD500X. Tone suck or not, it seems to me the OP would be better off with just a multiFX board if that's what he wants to do rather than a something like the HD500X. There's no doubt you could do it by leaving out the amp in the POD's signal chain and just using the default null amp and mixer, but it's really not designed to work that way. And whenever you kludge something together like that you're asking for all sorts of odd behaviors. Not to mention losing a MAJOR benefit of what the HD500X does.

Agreed. First and foremost, it's a modeler. If all one wants is an FX unit, there are plenty of other options that are likely better suited to the task.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've told numerous people, that if you aren't using the modeling, then you are paying too much for the unit and to just go buy an fx unit. 

 

HOWEVER... 

 

We are now looking at $200 for the HD500x on the used market because of Helix has been released and everyone is dumping the 'old hunks of junk'.

 

 

 

So I didn't tell this guy not to waste his money. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldnt call it tone suck but some unwanted tones, remember the POD is an amp modeler your amp will color the tone, the POD is not a plug and play device when used direct to the front of a amp.   


 


Output set to combo amp front


switch set to amp


POD left 1/4 out to eq input  ART HD-15 EQ


eq output to front of amp Marshall MG100DFX

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...