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Helix with an acoustic guitar?


tochiro
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Hi,

 

Do you need a DI if you plug your acoustic to the helix?

 

What about IRs? Can you use an IR sound of an acoustic and mix it to your acoustic piezzo sound (ala Fishman Aura Spectrum)?

 

Cheers

No, you will not need a DI box.

 

With Helix you can use cabinet IRs. So you could get an acoustic amp cabinet IR (someone posted a free one in a thread somewhere on hete) and possibly improve the sound. IRs are not snapshots line a Kemper Profile.

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No, you will not need a DI box.

 

With Helix you can use cabinet IRs. So you could get an acoustic amp cabinet IR (someone posted a free one in a thread somewhere on hete) and possibly improve the sound. IRs are not snapshots line a Kemper Profile.

 

Actually, impulse responses can be made from any acoustic instrument as well. I've used an acoustic IR with my acoustic/electric and the Helix, and I was very pleased with the result. You can actually make them on your own if you have mics and the right plug-in or a piece of hardware like the Fishman Aura pedal.

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Actually, impulse responses can be made from any acoustic instrument as well. I've used an acoustic IR with my acoustic/electric and the Helix, and I was very pleased with the result. You can actually make them on your own if you have mics and the right plug-in or a piece of hardware like the Fishman Aura pedal.

Sweet. I knew IRs could be made of other things but I didn't know they could actually be used in the Helix like that? I guess I do not fully understand the use with Helix.

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Is this procedure explained somewhere? I can go to a recording studio, use good gear and record my acoustic guitar but then how can I convert that to an IR and use it in the Helix?

The method varies according to what tools you'd use, but this article does a good job of explaining the concept.

 

http://designingsound.org/2012/12/recording-impulse-responses/

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  • 2 weeks later...

Has anyone here written a template for an acoustic electric, magnetic/piezo set up?   I use a Sunrise magnetic in the sound hole and a LR Baggs iBeam transducer on the bridge plate.  I run the Sunrise into the guitar input and the iBeam into the Aux input.

Thanks

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If you are looking to get a good sound out of your steel string i would definitely check out the new Acoustic Soundhole pickup/mic from IKMultimedia, looks very promising. If you use that straight into the mic input of the helix it should sound incredible (without the need for IR's). All academic at this stage coz i have neither but it is the route i will be going as soon as helix is available here.

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Has anyone here written a template for an acoustic electric, magnetic/piezo set up?   I use a Sunrise magnetic in the sound hole and a LR Baggs iBeam transducer on the bridge plate.  I run the Sunrise into the guitar input and the iBeam into the Aux input.

Thanks

 

This patch is the one I use for my Variax in acoustic mode: http://line6.com/customtone/tone/1304425/

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I have an idea in Ideascale for more acoustic guitar presets, effects, cabs and maybe even IRs. Please vote it up!

 

http://line6.ideasca.../791672-23508 

 

 

Tried your link, didn't find anything.

 

The link must have changed, here it is again and thanks for the vote!

http://line6.ideascale.com/a/dtd/More-amp-cabs-effects-and-presets-for-acoustic-guitar/791672-23508

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  • 5 months later...

If you are looking to get a good sound out of your steel string i would definitely check out the new Acoustic Soundhole pickup/mic from IKMultimedia, looks very promising. If you use that straight into the mic input of the helix it should sound incredible (without the need for IR's). All academic at this stage coz i have neither but it is the route i will be going as soon as helix is available here.

I bought an IRig mic a few months ago and liked it, but I was not convinced of the road worthiness of it. It's a very light and insubstantial piece. I was also worried about feedback. I ended up returning it, mainly because I wanted something more permanently and solidly attached. I made a short recording of a few styles of playing and put it on soundcloud. https://soundcloud.com/billlorentzen/irig-acoustic-demo . I just listened to it again and I think it sounded pretty darn good. I might get another and try it again.

 

I'm somewhat underwhelmed with the sound of the Taylor IRs used in helix with my acoustic and the piezo output. I'm still tweaking it, but I hear artifacts I don't like. It might be a smart thing for L6 to explore this area of acoustic IRs and see if they can perfect it for helix. Lots of potential buyers have and use acoustics with lousy sounding piezos!

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I just set up my two acoustics last night.  The 6-string has a built-in preamp, so I just created a patch that only adds effects (delay & reverb).  For my 12-string, which has a passive pickup, I added a compressor and the tube mic preamp model.  That seems to work well.  No cab sims or IRs and I'm going through the XLR out straight to the P.A. Sounds great.

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  • 7 months later...

I'm somewhat underwhelmed with the sound of the Taylor IRs used in helix with my acoustic and the piezo output. I'm still tweaking it, but I hear artifacts I don't like. It might be a smart thing for L6 to explore this area of acoustic IRs and see if they can perfect it for helix. Lots of potential buyers have and use acoustics with lousy sounding piezos!

 

New to Helix, and I use it also for acoustic.

I'm heavily underwhelmed by IRs as well, unfortunately: I downloaded all the Mama Bear ones and Aura ones, loaded in Helix and tried them all: they all have a strange and annoying (and unremovable) resonance in the mids. the only way I can use some of them is to blend them very very low (15% maximum, 10% for 12 strings).

 

I've had better results with para eq (slight boost at 100hz, heavy cut at 905 or 1200, slight boost between 4k and 10k).

 

For reference, piezos in my acoustics are both Fishman SOB (only piezo portion used).

 

Yet to try 3 Sigma ones...

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New to Helix, and I use it also for acoustic.

I'm heavily underwhelmed by IRs as well, unfortunately: I downloaded all the Mama Bear ones and Aura ones, loaded in Helix and tried them all: they all have a strange and annoying (and unremovable) resonance in the mids. the only way I can use some of them is to blend them very very low (15% maximum, 10% for 12 strings).

 

I've had better results with para eq (slight boost at 100hz, heavy cut at 905 or 1200, slight boost between 4k and 10k).

 

For reference, piezos in my acoustics are both Fishman SOB (only piezo portion used).

 

Yet to try 3 Sigma ones...

 

I have the 3Sigma acoustic IRs and they are nice but I still find I get my best tones with an acoustic guitar dialing the mix down on the IR to around 50%. I hear the same nastiness you described when the IR is at 100%. I am using the IR for coloration but still find the meat of the sound is in the direct acoustic. 

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In using 2 PRS models with magnetic and piezo pickups, I have designed a set of patches so that I can switch between mags and piezo or blend them.  I run the magnetic output to the Helix guitar input and the piezo output jack in to the Helix aux jack.  I have been trying the Taylor IRs on the acoustic side with reasonable results.  

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I have used all the free ones and am actually the guy who made the DTAR ones some of you have probably tried. Yes. All the free ones require very careful and occasionally drastic parametric EQ to sound good. And yes, normally out of 10 or 20 you will find that only 1 or 2 work well with a particular guitar.

The 3 Sigma Audio ones do NOT need that EQ to sound great. I use very little EQ, to sit the instrument in the mix, not so much to "fix" that upper mid-range hump problem.

 

Just buy 'em...

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Agreed. The 3 Sigma IRs are crazy good, and they give you a good assortment for your money (including IRs for piezo pu, magnetic pu, and electric git).

 

(FYI, I tried one of those IK Multimedia iRig acoustic pickups, and it sounded awful on my Alvarez Yairi acoustic — sent it back.)

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  • 1 year later...

One question for those that use Helix with acoustic guitar: since I heard that the Tonedexter is the new Graal for acoustic sound and, as far as I understand, is kind of a profiler/matcher/IR creator, I was wondering if it's feasible to use the Tonedexter matching EQs/images in Helix.

 

I bought 3Sigma D45 and Taka IRs and, while vastly superior to Mama Bear/Aura ones, they do not represent truthfully the character/punchiness/dryness of a great Mahogany Dread.

The reason for my asking is that I'd really love to profile my (or "a") Martin D18: it seems there are no IRs for that guitar

Thanks a lot

 

L.

Luc

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One question for those that use Helix with acoustic guitar: since I heard that the Tonedexter is the new Graal for acoustic sound and, as far as I understand, is kind of a profiler/matcher/IR creator, I was wondering if it's feasible to use the Tonedexter matching EQs/images in Helix.

 

I bought 3Sigma D45 and Taka IRs and, while vastly superior to Mama Bear/Aura ones, they do not represent truthfully the character/punchiness/dryness of a great Mahogany Dread.

 

The reason for my asking is that I'd really love to profile my (or "a") Martin D18: it seems there are no IRs for that guitar

 

Thanks a lot

 

L.

 

Luc

 

 

I would think you could fix what you need with EQ and get closer than you could making your own IR.

 

But who knows?!?!? That ToneDexter looks amazing.

 

For me, I'm so deliriously happy with the 3 Sigma Gibson, Taylor and especially Martin IR that I just don't even hunt for anything new anymore.

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The ToneDexter uses IRs just like the Helix does (they call them "WaveMaps"), but it uses a proprietary IR format, so you can't interchange its IRs with the Helix. The ToneDexter is made to create custom IRs for your personal instruments, and that's its claim-to-fame.

 

So, you could either use the ToneDexter for your tone, and it would make creating a custom IR for your Martin pretty easy to do. Or, you could read up on how to record your own IRs in WAV (the standard) format and use those in your Helix. I'm guessing ToneDexter will do a better job, though, because I think it may be doing some fancy EQ matching along with the IR creation, because it learns the unique sound of your pickup system along with the sound of your guitar through a mic. 

 

Either way, its best to have a good small diaphragm condenser mic to create your acoustic guitar IRs. The better the mic is for getting the studio recordings sound you want from your acoustic guitar, the better the IRs will be at recreating those sounds live with a pickup.

 

Helix or ToneDexter; the choice might be .... do I want all of the effects and extra I/O capabilities of the Helix in one box, or do I want a dedicated preamp/IR box (ToneDexter) and then add other effects pedals as needed? Nice choices.

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All I do is plug in My Takamine to the Helix, and use a tube pre-amp and some verb and chorus for effects as required. I can adjust main EQ settings and volume on the guitar but also have some control over the gain etc in the preamp. Sounds nice and full both for recording and live. Your mileage may vary based on guitar and pickup or preamp system you may or may not have on board.

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...as others here have mentioned, the 3 Sigma acoustic guitar IRs sound really good on an acoustic when place in a Helix IR block. They take out a lot of the quack out of a piezo pickup, give it a more rounded woody tone. 3 Sigma includes some for sound hole pickup to, but I haven't played around with those. 

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All I do is plug in My Takamine to the Helix, and use a tube pre-amp and some verb and chorus for effects as required. I can adjust main EQ settings and volume on the guitar but also have some control over the gain etc in the preamp. Sounds nice and full both for recording and live. Your mileage may vary based on guitar and pickup or preamp system you may or may not have on board.

In the past few months, I picked up two Takamine Acoustic Electrics, each has Takamine's CT4B-II Preamp and Palatheic pickup. The guitars are the P3DC and the EF341SC. They sound spectacular straight into the Helix Floor's AuxIn. Add Tube Pre-Amp, Compression, Chorus, Reverb, and Delay to taste. Outstanding. No need for IRs.

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