Wah and Volume

[brainbug]

Hi all

sorry for my maybe dumb question, but just wondering... If I have a wha on expression pedal 1 and volume on expression pedal 2, every time i want to toe switch to wha pedal, the volume goes to and stays to maximum until i switch back to volume pedal?  :o  Just wondering because in my POV this makes a big difference in how to program all the setlist.

Will you confirm this or is there some hidden trick that I don't know? :D

 

[a2dconverterguy]

Hey bb

 

If you plug an external Expression pedal into the Helix EXP 2 jack you will have Volume on a separate pedal.

 

I hope this helps

 

Seeya

 

Joe

[brainbug]

That's correct, thanks for your reply.

But if I don't want another pedal, is there a way to toggle between exp1 and exp2 with somethimg like a footswitch? Can you assign a footswitch to toggle between them?

[silverhead]

Check out this thread....

 

http://line6.com/support/topic/17062-hd-500x-strange-behavior-with-expression-pedal-controlling-parameters/

 

I'm not sure that Helix behaves exactly like the HD500 but I expect so.

[brainbug]

I mean, if it's not already possible, it would be nice to have the option, when a wha (or Whammy for example) is assigned to a footswitch, when you switch it on to select the exp1 too.. and when you switch the wha off, the pedal goes back where it was, exp2.. As i said if it's not already possible, this could be a suggestion .. ;)

[phil_m]

Hi all

sorry for my maybe dumb question, but just wondering... If I have a wha on expression pedal 1 and volume on expression pedal 2, every time i want to toe switch to wha pedal, the volume goes to and stays to maximum until i switch back to volume pedal?  :o  Just wondering because in my POV this makes a big difference in how to program all the setlist.

Will you confirm this or is there some hidden trick that I don't know? :D

 

If you're only using the on-board pedal, that is the compromise you have to make. How else could it work? You have nothing else to control the volume pedal with at that point.

[brainbug]

Thanks Silver,

I had a look at the thread, and yes, that would be perfect IF it would leave the value of the other pedal alone, not setting it to max. And by the way, how do you assign a footswitch to change exp pedal? Thanks a lot

[phil_m]

And by the way, how do you assign a footswitch to change exp pedal? Thanks a lot

 

You can't...

[brainbug]

:( Thanks Phil, ok, it would be useful though.  Hopefully one day ..........

[bmdenton23]

For my Wah and Whammy patches, I assign a footswitch to be a -6db switch so that I can cut down my volume if need be once I engage the wah/whammy.

 

For Devs, the answer you're looking for is to enable a footswitch to turn on a wah/whammy and turn off control over the volume pedal (turn off control, not turn off the pedal itself). This would result in the volume staying consistent. 

[brainbug]

Hi bmdenton

how do you enable a footswitch to turn off control over the volume pedal in Helix? I had a look but I can't figure it out..

Thanks for your replay anyway...

[phil_m]

Hi bmdenton

how do you enable a footswitch to turn off control over the volume pedal in Helix? I had a look but I can't figure it out..

Thanks for your replay anyway...

 

You can assign a volume pedal block to a footswitch just like you do with any other effect. It's not really correct to say "the" volume pedal, because the volume pedal effect is just another effect block, and you can use multiple instances of it in a preset. That's what the comment above is referring to. You could put another volume pedal block in your preset, and have it turn on when you turn the wah on to give you a volume cut if you don't want your volume to be at max when using the wah.

[DarrellM5]

I'm not at home right now so I don't have access to my unit to try and figure this out.  

 

I wonder if this would work:

• Insert a volume pedal block
• Insert a wah block and put it in BYPASS
• Assign both blocks to the same footswitch

Wouldn't the assigned footswitch toggle between the two without affecting the volume? 

[phil_m]

I'm not at home right now so I don't have access to my unit to try and figure this out.  

 

I wonder if this would work:

• Insert a volume pedal block
• Insert a wah block and put it in BYPASS
• Assign both blocks to the same footswitch

Wouldn't the assigned footswitch toggle between the two without affecting the volume? 

 

That's not really any different than using the expression toe switch to toggle between the wah and volume. The volume would still go to maximum because when you bypass the volume pedal block, any attenuation it was applying is lost.

[DarrellM5]

That's not really any different than using the expression toe switch to toggle between the wah and volume. The volume would still go to maximum because when you bypass the volume pedal block, any attenuation it was applying is lost.

 

Well, that's a bummer.  It looks like the external expression pedal is the way to go.  Wouldn't be a bad idea to put up on ideascale though.

[phil_m]

Well, that's a bummer.  It looks like the external expression pedal is the way to go.  Wouldn't be a bad idea to put up on ideascale though.

 

What's the idea? What behavior would you like to see? It's hard for me to imagine another behavior that wouldn't make the implementation overly complex.

[brainbug]

In my opinion the idea would be quite an easy one, just the possibility to assign to a footswitch exp1 or exp 2, like toggle between them. That is exactly what the toe switch does, but if you can do it with a normal footswitch you wouldn't have the problem of going to max with exp2 before switching. Or vice versa.

[brainbug]

P.S.

That would be useful in many other applications, not just volume and wha.. Think of reverb decay or delay feedback, using it like it is now it would be impossible, because before switching back to volume or whatever, it would set decay or feedback to max, and that we definately don't want..  :wacko:

[duncann]

Don't forget you can assign something like reverb decay, feedback, etc. to a footswitch with min and max values.

[silverhead]

In my opinion the idea would be quite an easy one, just the possibility to assign to a footswitch exp1 or exp 2, like toggle between them. That is exactly what the toe switch does, but if you can do it with a normal footswitch you wouldn't have the problem of going to max with exp2 before switching. Or vice versa.

Whether it's the toe switch or a footswitch, the issue is its operation. Even if you assign a footswitch to 'toggle' between exp1 and exp2, what exactly are you toggling? Are you just switching the pedal sweep as controller of the wah vs. vol FX, or are you also turning the associated FX on/off at the same time? The way the toe switch is implemented, is also turns the FX on/off. In other words, when you switch from exp1 (wah) to exp2 (vol) the wah FX is turned off. Same thing the other way, which is another reason (not only the pedal position being at max when you switch) why the VOL FX is always at max when you are operating the wah; the VOL FX has been turned off by the toe switch, and when it is off (bypassed) it operates at its assigned max. So, yes, you still have the problem of the Vol being at max.

 

The alternative, I suppose, is to have a footswitch that does not turn the associated FX on/off - it just toggles the operation of the pedal as controller of the two FX. But do you really want the Wah FX to remain on when you switch the pedal to Vol controller?

 

Hence the complexity about which phil_m speaks............

 

If you can come up with a simple explanation and implementation of how some combination of the onboard toe switch, pedal and footswitch(es) could work, please describe it and then it will make a good ideascale submission.. I think the requirement is that the implementation allows the VOL FX to remain on with its level somewhere between min/max levels while you switch the pedal sweep to control the WAH FX (simultaneously turning it on) and then be able to switch the pedal sweep back to Vol and have the WAH FX simultaneously turn off......... 

[brainbug]

Yes Duncann, and that's really a good and usefull feature. All the same would be usefull to be able to decide where to leave the feedback before switching back to volume pedal or whatever else I got in exp 2

[brainbug]

I get your point Silver..  But still I could put in the same footswitch wha on and wha off, so I would have the switch that toggles exp1 and exp2 (as you said that just toggles the operation of the pedal 1 and 2), Pressing exp 1 it would turn the wha on and set me to operate exp1 with the pedal,  pressing it again it woul turn wha off and set me on exp pedal 2 and the volume. Or did I get something wrong?

 

PS I'm just disussing it, I'm not complaining or being obnoxious  :)

[silverhead]

...

 

PS I'm just disussing it, I'm not complaining or being obnoxious  :)

I know. As am I.....

 

 

I think I finally get what you mean, and what you describe might work. Throw it on ideascale.

 

I still think it might be more complex than we think, and the ROI might be low, but I guess that's up to Line 6 to decide.

[phil_m]

I get your point Silver..  But still I could put in the same footswitch wha on and wha off, so I would have the switch that toggles exp1 and exp2 (as you said that just toggles the operation of the pedal 1 and 2), Pressing exp 1 it would turn the wha on and set me to operate exp1 with the pedal,  pressing it again it woul turn wha off and set me on exp pedal 2 and the volume. Or did I get something wrong?

 

PS I'm just disussing it, I'm not complaining or being obnoxious  :)

 

Well, it's the same thing I mentioned above. If you actually turn the volume block off, the volume will go to max anyway.

 

What you would need is to have the volume pedal effect lock to whatever it was set to when you hit the switch to toggle between EXP1 and EXP2. That would seemingly be easy enough to do. The complexity comes into effect when you start thinking about what happens when you hit this toggle switch again and the pedal starts controlling volume again. Does the volume stay where it was at until you move the pedal, or does it reflect the position of the pedal? In both cases, you could have uncontrollable volume drops or jumps still.

 

I mean, none of it seem like it would be impossible to implement. It just seems like a lot of energy spent on a problem that already has a relatively simple solution - getting an external pedal. The problem I see with trying to come up with an alternative is that it doesn't really completely solve the issue. It kind of just moves it elsewhere. At least with the current implementation, the behavior is 100% predictable.

[brainbug]

 Let's ask for a motor pedal  :lol:  

Yes, you're right, it would be an issue in some circumstances, not in other. But I think it would be a minor issue compared to leave feedback to max or volume to max. Let's say that footswitch to toggle exp 1 and 2 (not turning on and off the related fx)  would be another useful tool, then everybody would choose what to do.

[cuch]

I'm sure I'm just overlooking something so simple, but I'm stuck.  I have set up all of my patches to have EXP 1 as my Wah Pedal (and defaulting the toe switch "OFF") and I have a Mission Engineering EP1-L6 Expression Pedal connected to EXP 2.  Here's where I'm stuck...  I can't figure out how to make the volume pedal block "active" by default.  The EP1-l6 does not have a toe switch.  Some of my patches when I added the pedal is was active and other it is not.  Thanks in advance...

[a2dconverterguy]

Hey Cuch

 

Scroll over to the Volume Block, Press Bypass until it is active and save your patch!

 

I hope this helps

 

seeya

 

Joe

[cuch]

Will give it a shot when I get home tonight... Thanks Joe

[DarrellM5]

Well, that's a bummer.  It looks like the external expression pedal is the way to go.  Wouldn't be a bad idea to put up on ideascale though.

 

 

What's the idea? What behavior would you like to see? It's hard for me to imagine another behavior that wouldn't make the implementation overly complex.

 

I meant it's a bummer that my idea didn't help the original poster.  It also looks like a solution would be more difficult than I was expecting.  Personally, I use an external expression pedal.

[cuch]

Hey Cuch

 

Scroll over to the Volume Block, Press Bypass until it is active and save your patch!

 

I hope this helps

 

seeya

 

Joe

 

 

Thanks again Joe...  like I said "I'm just overlooking something simple"...     Gotta love wen the answer (or in the case button) is starring you right in the face! ;)

[bmdenton23]

I don't think it's really that complex as long as development is willing to treat the volume pedal as a unique entity and not just a generic block. All that's really necessary to implement this is to allow a footswitch to disable the control over the volume (not turn it off/on), while at the same time enabling the wah block (off/on) on the same exp pedal. 

 

The point to notice is the disabling of control tied to an exp. pedal versus the disabling of a block entirely. 

[brainbug]

You're right, the point of Silver is that when you go back to control the volume, your pedal is not in the correct fisical position so you could have volume drops or jumps. In my opinion this could be solved the way keyboards do.. the volume level stays where it is until moving the pedal you engage it and then it moves with it.

[Flower]

I find this problem extremely irritating : I want to be able to click my wah on and​ control my volume with and external expression pedal at the same time, why is that so difficult? I don't see why there are three exp's when turning one of them on makes the others redundant. To get around this problem I decided to splash out on a Boss volume pedal and slot it in a send/return, or an FX loop.............. guess what, the same thing happens - stomp down on the wah and the FX or S/R block turns off, and so I've just wasted £85 !, ( I know could go straight into the volume pedal, but I don't want to and don't see why I should ).

 

Come on Line6.......... I have, and still use, a Line6 Vetta II - I can do it on that, I had an HD 500 - and I could do it on that too, and I've had a few other Line6 products. I bought my Vetta II when they first came out, and it's awesome still, so I'm a long-time Line6 devotee, but this is making me wonder. The Helix costs an awful lot of money, and to have both wah and volume on at the same time seems to me a basic requirement.

 

Sorry for all the negativity, but I've been tearing out what's left of my hair trying to work it, and reading all the blogs it seems there's a multitude of Line6 users out there equally frustrated - the suggestions don't work.

[MusicLaw]

Flower, see the answer to your scenario as repoled to in the other volume and wah thread.

 

Essentially, you only need to deactivate the controller and/or expression assignments for each pedal or footswitch, and then be sure to assign them specifially as you desire them to respond.

[Qazqaz13]

Hi-

New to Helix.  This thread is several years old but original issue is still valid.  I have Wha on EP1 and Volume on EP2.  When EP1(Wha) is activated, EP2 goes into Bypass and volume is max.  IMO, EP1 and EP2 should operate independently.  How can I prevent EP1 activation from from putting EP2 into Bypass?  Thanks for your help. 

[tyjuanw]

I'm using this solution posted 28 April 2019 by HonestOpinion (scroll down to that post).

It sets wah as a footswitch that engages at your current volume.

 

[brue58ski]

Not sure if this is what you're trying to do and you may already know this but the reason this happens is because in order to engage the wah/volume you need to hit the toe switch which means you need to move the volume to full. If you set it up so that another switch on the pedal board does what the toe switch does I think the volume pedal will remain at the level you set it at. Not sure about this. I haven't tried it.