Questions about Delay and Reverb

[zackmueller92]

Okay so I just recently discovered the Helix and I have tons of questions for people that already have them. I am in an indie/pop/shoegaze band so my pedalboard and ac30 are massive and a pain in the lollipop to schlep around Los Angeles. How does the delay and reverb sound? I have a Strymon Timeline and Big Sky, which I absolutely love. But the idea of only having to bring one thing to a show sounds brilliant if the processor actually sounds organic or "analog". The Line 6 DL4 is a great delay so I would assume the delay should be pretty decent. But what about the reverb? How would it stack up to my Strymon? And can you program in patches so that I can program an entire song onto one button so it will change the delay, reverb, overdrive ect? Theres no videos that Ive seen that cover these things fully.

[amsdenj]

I use two delays in many of my patches. One uses Simple Delay for a short slapback delay with the delay time set at 125 msec and no repeats. This is often on all the time with the delay level set to be barely noticeable. It just adds some ambience. The second uses Mod Chorus Echo for a longer, 500 msec delay, with some repeats, and a little modulation on the delay repeats. This is used in select songs that need a pronounced delay effect.

 

I find the Helix reverbs are just fine with lots of choices. I tend to prefer reverb that sounds natural and doesn't stand out. So I typically use the Hall reverb block, and keep the reverb mix and time to a minimum. Reverb can make a mess in the mix if not done carefully. 

 

I haven't used your specific effects or a real AC30. But my experience so far with Helix is that it won't sound or feel the same as your current pedals and amp. That may be good or bad. A lot depends on what you play it through and where its positioned. Helix plugged into the PA will never sound and feel like a guitar amp right behind you. And putting it through a monitor in front of you on the floor will be another different experience. The sound stage and separation from other instruments will be entirely different to you.

 

Whether this is bad or good may be more a matter of what you're feeling and hearing, and make very little difference to the audience. They're likely to be unable to notice much difference. So try it, give it some time so you can get use to the different experience. You might find it works very well. Personally I'd like the flexibility of choosing what I use at a gig, using a real amp for some situations, Helix into the PA in others, and maybe a combination of both in other situations, using Helix as a front-of-the-amp pedalboard.

[radatats]

 And can you program in patches so that I can program an entire song onto one button so it will change the delay, reverb, overdrive ect? Theres no videos that Ive seen that cover these things fully.

 

seriously, that is one of the biggest features.  The programming capabilities are off the charts.  You can set up FS to control FX, groups of effects, or just FX parameters like mix or depth.  You can set up totally different amp/cab/FX chains within the same patch and switch between them.  You can assign the expression pedal to control up to 64 different parameters to smoothly morph from clean to lead for example.  If you love your Strymons you can put them in the Helix FX loops (2 stereo, 4 mono).  You should definitely try it, it's a gamechanger...

[zackmueller92]

seriously, that is one of the biggest features. The programming capabilities are off the charts. You can set up FS to control FX, groups of effects, or just FX parameters like mix or depth. You can set up totally different amp/cab/FX chains within the same patch and switch between them. You can assign the expression pedal to control up to 64 different parameters to smoothly morph from clean to lead for example. If you love your Strymons you can put them in the Helix FX loops (2 stereo, 4 mono). You should definitely try it, it's a gamechanger...

 

I am probably going to have to spend some time with this at the store. It sounds like it could be the answer to my live rig prayers. My question is more about the quality of the delay and reverb. I love strymon for their crisp and almost too clean and true sound and the atmospheric reverbs. But my goal for this board is for me to be able to leave everything at home and just go gig with my guitar and the board.

 

And lastly, are there any benefits to getting this as a rack instead of just the floorboard?

[zackmueller92]

I use two delays in many of my patches. One uses Simple Delay for a short slapback delay with the delay time set at 125 msec and no repeats. This is often on all the time with the delay level set to be barely noticeable. It just adds some ambience. The second uses Mod Chorus Echo for a longer, 500 msec delay, with some repeats, and a little modulation on the delay repeats. This is used in select songs that need a pronounced delay effect.

 

I find the Helix reverbs are just fine with lots of choices. I tend to prefer reverb that sounds natural and doesn't stand out. So I typically use the Hall reverb block, and keep the reverb mix and time to a minimum. Reverb can make a mess in the mix if not done carefully.

 

I haven't used your specific effects or a real AC30. But my experience so far with Helix is that it won't sound or feel the same as your current pedals and amp. That may be good or bad. A lot depends on what you play it through and where its positioned. Helix plugged into the PA will never sound and feel like a guitar amp right behind you. And putting it through a monitor in front of you on the floor will be another different experience. The sound stage and separation from other instruments will be entirely different to you.

 

Whether this is bad or good may be more a matter of what you're feeling and hearing, and make very little difference to the audience. They're likely to be unable to notice much difference. So try it, give it some time so you can get use to the different experience. You might find it works very well. Personally I'd like the flexibility of choosing what I use at a gig, using a real amp for some situations, Helix into the PA in others, and maybe a combination of both in other situations, using Helix as a front-of-the-amp pedalboard.

 

Yeah I've learned from my gigging experience that the average 99% of concert goers don't care about what you are using live. All they care about is if it sounds "good". My singer/rhythm guitarist has been using a TC Helicon live as her entire rig and it sounds different than mine but still really good. That's what's sparked my interest in getting a processor. That and it's easy to send my signal to the board so I can have a proper in ear mix. So I figure I can use my expensive analog stuff in the studio where it's most important to sound great. Then use this for live which from reviews will also sound great and a million times easier to load in and set up.

 

One last question, is there any benefit to getting the rack system rather than the floorboard only?

 

And what's the quality of the delay? I mostly use dual/U2 style and tape delay.

[amsdenj]

Delays sound good to me, but I don't use a lot of delay. Re: studio, you might find much better luck with S-Gear from www.scuffhamamps.com than using a real mic'd amp. Helix in the studio might work better than a mic'd amp too unless you have a specific isolation booth for the amp. Digital isn't what it use to be. After all, most of the recording and mixing is digital now, as are most plugins. Why not the guitar amp too? Good convolution models for speaker cabinets make all the difference. 

[radatats]

I am probably going to have to spend some time with this at the store. It sounds like it could be the answer to my live rig prayers. My question is more about the quality of the delay and reverb. I love strymon for their crisp and almost too clean and true sound and the atmospheric reverbs. But my goal for this board is for me to be able to leave everything at home and just go gig with my guitar and the board.

 

And lastly, are there any benefits to getting this as a rack instead of just the floorboard?

 

Personally, I love the delays and the reverbs. Many models to choose from.  Just as important though is the total flexibility of signal chain layout and FX placement.  You can be inline serial or dual path parallel, multiple instances of reverb and/or delay in the same patch, and then hit a FS and another patch has everything completely rearranged.  Not like the hours it would take to rearrange everything on your board.  Sounds killer to me.

 

No advantage to the rack for a gigging musician.  Perhaps in the studio the little extras and IN/OUTs matter but then you have to buy the separate floorboard too and extra expression pedals,

[PeterHamm]

The advantage of the rack is that you get all the mess of the cables out of the way right underneath your feet (potentially) and if you play a lot of places where there's guys spilling beer in front of the stage and stuff, you might feel safer with just the controller there instead of your whole sound. 

 

But to me, most gigging musicians are just fine with the floorboard (and save 300 bucks). Functionality of the rack + controller and floorboard is totally and completely identical. All I/O is the same.

Oh, and the rack is still in beta, won't be out till late winter or spring if all goes well from what I think I heard. The floorboard is available (on and off) now.

[mileskb]

As mentioned the options for Delay and Reverb are many even including an Echo that you can access in at least one of the Chorus effects.  When I want reverb, I tend to want to use a spring.   The one that's just called "Spring" you'll catch yourself smacking the cabinet to try and get the spring to rattle... it's that good.

 

I mentioned this in another thread, but don't be fooled by the "model breakouts" that refer to how the effects were made and what the models were.  As with other things, I found the identified Reverbs to really only work in their original specific configuration.   I found the flexibility and parameters offered to really cover the bases and be adaptable to the sonic characteristics of the rest of the patch as needed. 

 

To say the controls on the delays are more than adequate is an understatement.  As example, to emulate my Rockman Stereo Echo, I used two mono Bucket-Brigade Delays panned left and right with separate times and when I combined them into the stereo path, I inverted one side.  You'd have to spend more than the cost of a Helix to find a dedicated stereo delay to do that especially when you consider all the other parameters.

[showmpiano]

Does the Memory Man effect, the "Elephant Man" function like the MM effect does in for example PodFarm?

[shanecgriffo]

you probably really need to try it to decide.. most people won't be using washes of delay and reverb quite like what is needed for shoegaze style genre. I think as yet there is no comparison to the strymon as far as quality goes but this is only a guess and from comment's i've read. I find the reverbs nice and cirtainly with the routing options you will get nice washes of sound. The vox amps onboard dont seem to have as much 'vox' character as i expected but i may just need to muck around with them and try some vox ir's

[tagwap]

In my opinion the delays are brilliant in Helix but the reverbs are for the most part very poor, especially the spring and hall reverbs. Absolutely nowhere near as good as my strymon flint.

[Darvin_Jordan]

I live my helix but, I play a wide variety of different music. I'm used to both my Strymon Timeline and Strymon Bigsky and I also use an Eventide space and an Eventide Timefactor. I've been working hard for about 2 months to get some of the verb and delay sounds on the helix that I need without much luck. The Helix has beautiful verbs and delays but they are somewhat utilitarian for me. I finally decided to get a tiny board and bring both Strymon pedals with me. I kinda hate it because I fly a lot, but I really like both of these FXs to be more versatile than what the Helix can deliver. If there was anything that I could improve on the Helix these 2 fxs would be modernized. They're really not up to date. I also use a Fractal Axe FX and it's far more advanced in these 2 areas. It takes me forever to program, but its verbs and delays are better.

 

You'll never get strymon sound or versatility on the Helix.

 

I hope this helps.

 

DJ

[phil_m]

I live my helix but, I play a wide variety of different music. I'm used to both my Strymon Timeline and Strymon Bigsky and I also use an Eventide space and an Eventide Timefactor. I've been working hard for about 2 months to get some of the verb and delay sounds on the helix that I need without much luck. The Helix has beautiful verbs and delays but they are somewhat utilitarian for me. I finally decided to get a tiny board and bring both Strymon pedals with me. I kinda hate it because I fly a lot, but I really like both of these FXs to be more versatile than what the Helix can deliver. If there was anything that I could improve on the Helix these 2 fxs would be modernized. They're really not up to date. I also use a Fractal Axe FX and it's far more advanced in these 2 areas. It takes me forever to program, but its verbs and delays are better.

 

You'll never get strymon sound or versatility on the Helix.

 

I hope this helps.

 

DJ

 

The reverbs I'll grant you, because the Strymon Big Sky verbs are really kind of in a league of their own, and even some of the Fractal reverbs are very nice. I don't know about the delays, though. There are some "special" delays on the TimeLine, like the Ice and Trem machines that the Helix can't do, but for most of the "normal" machines, I kind of think I prefer the Helix. Line 6's tape model, imo, is absolutely beautiful. I actually find it easier to dial in than Strymons. I also the new Vintage Delay model on the Helix is nice. I still own the Strymon TimeLine and DIG, and I've owned the El Capistan, so I think I'm entitled to have an opinion on delays. :D  I mean, yes, there are differences, but I don't think any of them make Helix's delays inferior in any way. In some ways, I think the Strymon and Eventide effects are less practical for many players because they kind of take over the whole signal in a way that other delays don't. There are times when that's good, and times when it's not so good.

[musiclover7]

My advice would be to get one from guitar center, take it home, and try the sucker out for 45 days.  This is what I did, and about 15-20 days in I decided I could not go back to where I was before, so I kept the thing and now here I am.

 

The helix is not perfect.  Reverbs could be better on this unit imho, but they seem to be getting the job done, for me at least.  I am hopeful that line 6 will hook us up with 1-2 more great sounding reverbs in some future release, as a number of folks on these boards have asked for them, but don't quote me on that or anything...  I have zero affiliation with Line 6.  Worst case, you wind up toting around your big sky until that happens.  It's very easy to chain an effect with this thing.

 

I am happy with the delays.  We have a lot more options here, and they sound great!

[uburoibob]

What would be the best way to achieve a Timeline-like effect where the repeats are 'smeared' or 'swelled'? Also, is it possible to program more than one parameter to an expression pedal so that I can bring up, say, both the MIX and FEEDBACK for a delay using a second Expression pedal? Or am I limited to only a single parameter per pedal?

 

I am still in my first 30-days with the Helix, and am trying to make it sound good enough to replace my physical rig which leans heavily on a Timeline, a Nemesis, and a Flint...

 

I am finding the auto-swell on the Helix is a little difficult to get under control. The same guitar through the Timeline has a much more predictable attack across the board, whereas on the Helix it's touchier - the higher strings sometimes don't trigger where the G string may not get squashed. The threshold seems not as forgiving as my old Line 6 Echo Park pedal...

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

[phil_m]

What would be the best way to achieve a Timeline-like effect where the repeats are 'smeared' or 'swelled'? Also, is it possible to program more than one parameter to an expression pedal so that I can bring up, say, both the MIX and FEEDBACK for a delay using a second Expression pedal? Or am I limited to only a single parameter per pedal?

 

You can have up to 8 parameters controlled by a single controller or expression pedal.

[willjrock]

I use two delays in many of my patches. One uses Simple Delay for a short slapback delay with the delay time set at 125 msec and no repeats. This is often on all the time with the delay level set to be barely noticeable. It just adds some ambience. The second uses Mod Chorus Echo for a longer, 500 msec delay, with some repeats, and a little modulation on the delay repeats. This is used in select songs that need a pronounced delay effect.

 

I find the Helix reverbs are just fine with lots of choices. I tend to prefer reverb that sounds natural and doesn't stand out. So I typically use the Hall reverb block, and keep the reverb mix and time to a minimum. Reverb can make a mess in the mix if not done carefully. 

 

I haven't used your specific effects or a real AC30. But my experience so far with Helix is that it won't sound or feel the same as your current pedals and amp. That may be good or bad. A lot depends on what you play it through and where its positioned. Helix plugged into the PA will never sound and feel like a guitar amp right behind you. And putting it through a monitor in front of you on the floor will be another different experience. The sound stage and separation from other instruments will be entirely different to you.

 

Whether this is bad or good may be more a matter of what you're feeling and hearing, and make very little difference to the audience. They're likely to be unable to notice much difference. So try it, give it some time so you can get use to the different experience. You might find it works very well. Personally I'd like the flexibility of choosing what I use at a gig, using a real amp for some situations, Helix into the PA in others, and maybe a combination of both in other situations, using Helix as a front-of-the-amp pedalboard.

Hey man, grab multitap 6, bring the delay time down to around 300. Feedback about 40%....if ya havent already. Good stuff, and simple/quick..