Would like to emulate Keely Double Tracker 30ms

[cdt123]

So I was watching a YT video of the keely Double Tracker 30ms and LOVED the effect. Has anyone tried and emulated this effect on the Helix? I'm not very good at using the routing and chorusing, stereo/momo on the Helix yet... But, would love to know how to build something like that...

 

Here is the link to that pedal:

 

 

Thank :-)

Cam

[duncann]

After listening to that video, with headphones, a lot of what it does doesn't seem much more than delays and choruses, which Helix is pretty good at. And a lot of Helix's delays have some pretty neat modulation effects along with them.

 

For the double tracking effect, you could put a ping-pong delay on a parallel path with the following settings: time: 0ms, fb: 0%, scale and spread: adjust to your liking, mix: 100%, lo- and hi-cut: off. If you want to use some sort of modulation with this, you could put a chorus, flanger, phaser, etc. on the same path as the ping-pong, or put it on the other path.

 

You could also use a dual-delay without the need for a path-split: left-time: 0ms, right-time: >0ms (usually around 25ms sounds good), lfb: 0%, rfb: 0%, left mix: 100%, right mix: 100%, lo- and hi-cut: off, spead: adjust to preference. This delay also has a mod-mode with chorus, vibrato, and off.

[robbieb61]

That is a great sounding pedal.

[cdt123]

After listening to that video, with headphones, a lot of what it does doesn't seem much more than delays and choruses, which Helix is pretty good at. And a lot of Helix's delays have some pretty neat modulation effects along with them.

 

For the double tracking effect, you could put a ping-pong delay on a parallel path with the following settings: time: 0ms, fb: 0%, scale and spread: adjust to your liking, mix: 100%, lo- and hi-cut: off. If you want to use some sort of modulation with this, you could put a chorus, flanger, phaser, etc. on the same path as the ping-pong, or put it on the other path.

 

You could also use a dual-delay without the need for a path-split: left-time: 0ms, right-time: >0ms (usually around 25ms sounds good), lfb: 0%, rfb: 0%, left mix: 100%, right mix: 100%, lo- and hi-cut: off, spead: adjust to preference. This delay also has a mod-mode with chorus, vibrato, and off.

 

I am so bummed right now - I am out of town at the in-laws for Christmas and my Helix is at home, lonely, just waiting for me to try that out. Looks like its time to actually break out the manual and learn the routing etc... I'm a new enough guitar player that modulation and delays are not something I've been using a lot of. Mostly just straight up amp stuff with an OD and reverb... If I can just play a song live and not mess it up I'm usually happy. So there hasn't been a need to put modulation and delay in the bag of tricks... but I can see that its time to start learning more on these sorts of things. Thanks for the suggestion :-)

Cam

[tjontheroad]

The 30ms is very unique in the way it randomly mods both time and pitch. I have one running stereo through the Helix loop with a Xotic EP Booster in front. Sounds awesome. I don't think you'll get close to the 30ms sound with Helix alone.

[mdmayfield]

I don't have my Helix in front of me ATM but I could imagine beginning to approach a random-ish delay/chorus kind of thing using a couple different choruses or delays in series and using multiple paths. Hard to describe but I'll try:

 

Path 1: Guitar --> split to path 2 ---> combining point --> amp, reverb, etc.

Path 2 --> Mod/Chorus Echo at 100% wet, shortish delay and fast speed ---> Mod/Chorus Echo at 100%, longer delay and medium speed --> combine back to path 1, mix to taste

 

The end result would be random-ish sounding, if the two delay times + speeds are not mathematically related to each other. That is, their measurements should have no common factors, and have a very large Least Common Multiple.

 

You could also set the second modulation effect to <100% mix to thicken the sound, or even expand the general pattern to include another path & mod effect for even more pseudo-randomness.

[cdt123]

The 30ms is very unique in the way it randomly mods both time and pitch. I have one running stereo through the Helix loop with a Xotic EP Booster in front. Sounds awesome. I don't think you'll get close to the 30ms sound with Helix alone.

 

Is that in "PRO" Mode or the standard mode? I know the input of the 30ms is a standard guitar cable (TS), but the PRO mode is stereo...(TRS)... if I ran the 30ms in the loop (and I'd prefer to see if it can be done INSIDE the Helix) in PRO mode, do I go back IN with TWO inputs, a L and R?

 

Ugh, I want to drive 10 hours home just so I can start playing around trying to do some of the Delay/Chorus options you all have suggested.... :-)

 

Cam

[tjontheroad]

Is that in "PRO" Mode or the standard mode? I know the input of the 30ms is a standard guitar cable (TS), but the PRO mode is stereo...(TRS)... if I ran the 30ms in the loop (and I'd prefer to see if it can be done INSIDE the Helix) in PRO mode, do I go back IN with TWO inputs, a L and R?

 

Ugh, I want to drive 10 hours home just so I can start playing around trying to do some of the Delay/Chorus options you all have suggested.... :-)

 

Cam

I have it in Pro mode with a TRS splitter. It takes one loop out/two in.

 

The 30ms does fine random pitch modulation in "Abby mode" to simulate an analog tape doubling effect. In stereo, it places a delay on one side that also modulates the timing slightly. The key sound vibe from the 30ms is from the pitch modulation though. I guess you could try a pitch block to detune the dry signal on a parallel path and the add chorus after to modulate it. Add some delay and you'll get close, but you still won't have the random modulation that the 30ms also does.

[cdt123]

I have it in Pro mode with a TRS splitter. It takes one loop out/two in.

 

The 30ms does fine random pitch modulation in "Abby mode" to simulate an analog tape doubling effect. In stereo, it places a delay on one side that also modulates the timing slightly. The key sound vibe from the 30ms is from the pitch modulation though. I guess you could try a pitch block to detune the dry signal on a parallel path and the add chorus after to modulate it. Add some delay and you'll get close, but you still won't have the random modulation that the 30ms also does.

 

Ugh, mate... You are not making this easy for me... I want to get me a new Christmas present like NOW!! Merry Christmas Campbell, here's your 30ms!!! I'll just have to exercise my restraint and see if I can program something in the Helix when I get home on Sunday. I am reading the manual again to get a handle one what I might need to do to get close. I'll start with the suggestions on here though. Thanks for letting me know how you run your 30ms. Last question, are you going out stereo to amps or a FOH L/R PA type setup? I go straight to the board stereo and out the the L/R of the PA... I am guessing that would still give me that big sound these videos are producing. Thanks again.

Cam

[tjontheroad]

Ugh, mate... You are not making this easy for me... I want to get me a new Christmas present like NOW!! Merry Christmas Campbell, here's your 30ms!!! I'll just have to exercise my restraint and see if I can program something in the Helix when I get home on Sunday. I am reading the manual again to get a handle one what I might need to do to get close. I'll start with the suggestions on here though. Thanks for letting me know how you run your 30ms. Last question, are you going out stereo to amps or a FOH L/R PA type setup? I go straight to the board stereo and out the the L/R of the PA... I am guessing that would still give me that big sound these videos are producing. Thanks again.

Cam

 

Lol, don't blame me :) Keeley put together some old fashion secret sauce in there. Abby Mode is pretty specialized for what it does. Just buy one, You won't be disappointed ;)

 

Right now, I run the Helix stereo into a X-Air 12 mixer with other stuff I play (MIDI Guitar, Keys, Saxophone) and split the output to my personal monitors (Alto TS110a) and to FOH. 

[toasterdude]

On a related topic. I try to get a double tracking sound all the time. I didn't like the keeley as they seemed to go heavy on detune. Sounded too chorusy. Heard enough chorus in 80s to last 20 lifetimes, but I digress. I get a more natural sounding double track using a JTV Variax with p rails.

 

I have been doing this on my "big rig", but big rig is so big it never leaves the house, lol.  I have less than an hour's time on Helix and get a decent approximation. No modulation at all.

 

Not in front of helix now but roughly:

 

Two paths - one variax one magnetics say neck p rail set to p 90 and gretsch neck  or 335 neck on variax side.

 

two different amps and cabs

 

20 ms or similar on one side 100% wet

 

two different slap delays one side 150 ms, other side 180ms. Mix types so that say analog on left and tape on right

 

two different reverbs, one side spring, preferably 63 spring, the other maybe plate or similar

 

 

 

I take it to extreme with FX as well:

 

different drive on each side

 

different settings on mutron on each side

 

different phasers on each side

 

different wahs on each side.

 

 

Delays in parallel with verbs, each side panned hard left or right.

 

I also mess with bias settings in deep parameters. Just turn a knob until the difference is a bit "wider".

 

Basically adding as many small differences as possible. When I get lucky, as you move from low strings to high I hear the "wideness" change. On some patches the high E and B are "wider" with G and D sounding similar and then the A and E wider again.

 

Icing on cake is going into variax workbench and changing cap or pot settings until it sounds a bit more "3D" as well.

 

Tomorrow I ma mess with sending the verbs to the mixer instead of recombining with main path after the delays. Maybe panning reverbs less hard left and right may add to the illusion?

 

Maybe I should lug a varix xplant and helix patches on thumb drive to NAMM. . .lol. P Rails are key to doing this with varied sounds such as single coils, hums and p90s.

[cdt123]

On a related topic. I try to get a double tracking sound all the time. I didn't like the keeley as they seemed to go heavy on detune. Sounded too chorusy. Heard enough chorus in 80s to last 20 lifetimes, but I digress. I get a more natural sounding double track using a JTV Variax with p rails.

 

I have been doing this on my "big rig", but big rig is so big it never leaves the house, lol.  I have less than an hour's time on Helix and get a decent approximation. No modulation at all.

 

Not in front of helix now but roughly:

 

Two paths - one variax one magnetics say neck p rail set to p 90 and gretsch neck  or 335 neck on variax side.

 

two different amps and cabs

 

20 ms or similar on one side 100% wet

 

two different slap delays one side 150 ms, other side 180ms. Mix types so that say analog on left and tape on right

 

two different reverbs, one side spring, preferably 63 spring, the other maybe plate or similar

 

 

 

I take it to extreme with FX as well:

 

different drive on each side

 

different settings on mutron on each side

 

different phasers on each side

 

different wahs on each side.

 

 

Delays in parallel with verbs, each side panned hard left or right.

 

I also mess with bias settings in deep parameters. Just turn a knob until the difference is a bit "wider".

 

Basically adding as many small differences as possible. When I get lucky, as you move from low strings to high I hear the "wideness" change. On some patches the high E and B are "wider" with G and D sounding similar and then the A and E wider again.

 

Icing on cake is going into variax workbench and changing cap or pot settings until it sounds a bit more "3D" as well.

 

Tomorrow I ma mess with sending the verbs to the mixer instead of recombining with main path after the delays. Maybe panning reverbs less hard left and right may add to the illusion?

 

Maybe I should lug a varix xplant and helix patches on thumb drive to NAMM. . .lol. P Rails are key to doing this with varied sounds such as single coils, hums and p90s.

 

So I did exactly as you outlined and though I have NOT tried the 30ms, I am getting a noticeable stereo separation having the two paths and a 100% wet signal on a delay of 15-30ms .... I used different amps on the two sides and added "flavors" as you note and its pretty impressive. My ears get used to the sound when I play with that effect ON all the time, so I am getting used to WHEN to use it to have the most impact live. 

 

Thanks guys for your help and suggestions... I am getting close enough that I think I'll NOT have to get the 30ms pedal. though I would LOVE to try one just to see and compare.

Cam