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fukuri

Dsp lack of horsepower .. Is this normal?

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Just received a Helix unit and started playing with it

I'm seriously unimpressed with what it can dope with DSP wise

I know there are limits but I've just maxed out Path 1 with a phaser an 808 and two amp cab models

That's it!

I know I can go to Path 2 but I was expecting to get a bit further than this based on the demos I've seen

Faulty unit? This can't be it surely

post-47364-0-98225600-1450840241_thumb.jpeg

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My initial thought would be to make sure the models of the 808 and phaser aren't the stereo version. Running those into the amp makes them mono anyways, so it's a huge waste of DSP.

 

Edit: Also, can you add models to the lower path (1B, not path 2)? If I want to run two amps in stereo I always utilize both main paths. Amps and cabs take up the most DSP by far. You can then tweak the outputs of each path to mix L and R for true stereo. I'd suggest looking at the templates in the preset browser (I believe it's at the bottom of the setlists) for an idea on what you can do. Spend some time to learn the best-practices of this unit and it really shines.

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They are both mono

Can't add anything other than a volume pedal

Just replicated the above on path two which gives me the option for an eq or dynamics block but nothing else

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If you want stereo amps, you want to put one amp on path 1 and the other on path 2 and then mix the outputs. Putting both on path 1 is going to limit your DSP a ton. The unit has to model two amplifiers AND two cabinets on one DSP chip if it's all loaded on path 1. Remember that each path has a dedicated DSP chip. Splitting it up gets you what you're after. 

 

Check out the attached image. I'm working on a Tremonti/Alter Bridge tone. I have two seperate amplifiers on each path. This leaves me plenty of DSP horsepower for any effects I need on each output. I get the stereo sound with one amp on the L and one on the R channel. In this instance i'm using the Mesa Dual Rec. and Uberschall models. I should note that I only have the effects that I want in this patch, but I have room to add more without hitting the limit.

post-617076-0-19305300-1450841205_thumb.jpg

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I saw a demo of two dirty Amos and a clean

I guess I need to get used to things like sharing can models? I just wanted to check that this was normal behaviour

I've had a couple of lookups on the unit and I've had it for less than a day so I'm a bit suspicious of it tbh

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Another variable is that each amp model AND cab take different amounts of DSP. So the formula isn't as simple as: "I can have two amplifiers and a dual cabinet on one path no problem". It really depends on which models you're using. That being said, I've never had lockups with my unit, so I can't tell you if yours is defective. What I COULD do is have you send me a patch where you've hit the "limit" and I can try adding more blocks.. But I'm fairly certain our units would function identically in that situation.

 

If you want to try that just send me a link to the patch (dropbox or something) and I can help you out the best I can. Otherwise I'd tell you to call Line 6 support.

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Thanks for the offer. I've packed up for the night (it's nearly 4 am here ) but I'll maybe do that tomorrow

I've raised a ticket re the lockup already I just wanted to check this perception against the forum (I.e. Am I expecting too much)

Thanks for your time. I appreciate it :)

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Thanks for the offer. I've packed up for the night (it's nearly 4 am here ) but I'll maybe do that tomorrow

I've raised a ticket re the lockup already I just wanted to check this perception against the forum (I.e. Am I expecting too much)

Thanks for your time. I appreciate it :)

 

I think you are kind of "expecting too much". Well, it's just a matter of opinion but for me (a longtime POD HD user) the thinking goes like this:

 

Since the raw DSP power (what one DSP chip can do) and the models (apart from the reverbs and some wahs) have both been improved I see it as similar to POD HD in terms of how many models you can put on one DSP unit (because you have more raw DSP power but also more demanding models). So if you're saying two amps and two cabs plus two fx models then that seems about right to me. The improvement in Helix then mainly comes from the two DSP units it has, so you can utilize approx. twice as much as what POD HD could run (say four amps with cabs and couple of fx models or two amps with cabs plus perhaps 12 fx models) but you have to use both DPS units / paths.

 

I'm using Helix to process both my electric guitar tone and vocal at the same time for live and I'm using paths 1A, 1B and 2A chained for the guitar and path 2B for my vocal and so far don't have much complains about DSP power available. But I'm running just one amp with two cabs.

 

That said I'm a little bit concerned what would happen if completely new HX models of reverbs arrive (I hope for that as the current HD models sound a bit dated compared to the new awesome stuff) as reverbs are generally very demanding. But then for live use I could always do with an older reverb if I have a more demanding patch which could not fit another HX reverb so I'm also glad the HD reverbs were converted for Helix (as I assume they wouldn't be replaced by the new models but they would be added).

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Some other things, try using only one amp and two cabs. That will save horsepower and sound great.

 

And some amps are more DSP intensive than others, especially, iirc, the Plexi amps.

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Just received a Helix unit and started playing with it

I'm seriously unimpressed with what it can dope with DSP wise

I know there are limits but I've just maxed out Path 1 with a phaser an 808 and two amp cab models

That's it!

I know I can go to Path 2 but I was expecting to get a bit further than this based on the demos I've seen

Faulty unit? This can't be it surely

 

It has kind of been said, but I want to make sure it's clear. In the tone you put up, you have everything in paths 1A and 1B. This means you are only taking advantage of half of the total processing power available. You need to move stuff into paths 2A and 2B to start using the second processor.

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I would suspect as the unit matures there will be many DSP optimizations, as I believe there was in later updates to the POD when more amps and cabs were added.

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I've only had the Helix for less than a week, but can relate a bit to Fukuri's DSP frustrations, seems like maybe my expectations were a bit too high. Don't get me wrong, I'm getting some tones that I absolutely love from the unit, but feel that once I've gotten to a point where I'm happy with my base tone, I have to compromise on the effects I'm able to use because I've already maxed out the DSP. But this is also because I'm trying to avoid the delay when switching between patches and am building two tones per patch. 

 

I would be perfectly happy building one great tone per patch with all the effects I need, cause I do think there's plenty of available DSP for my needs, per patch, but I'm not happy with the delay between patches. I'm still very new to Helix though, so I'm sure learning the unit better will help me with some of the things I'm uneasy about.

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There's a whole section of the manual (page 19) that discusses Helix's Dynamic DSP. Some Amp+Cab blocks take up more than half a DSP, so yes, you're not gonna get much else on a path if you add two of 'em. This is exactly why we gave you two paths/DSPs!

 

Check out some of the factory presets that have two (or three!) amps and tons of effects.

 

Guess it's time to finish that blog...

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DI, it might be helpful to know how much processing they take. I already know, by trying things, that the Plexis are the absolute most resource hungry, but they aren't "my thing" anyway really...

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DI, it might be helpful to know how much processing they take. 

 

Dynamic DSP should come with an approximated % list for each item available in the chain, that would be helpful.

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There's a whole section of the manual (page 19) that discusses Helix's Dynamic DSP. Some Amp+Cab blocks take up more than half a DSP, so yes, you're not gonna get much else on a path if you add two of 'em. This is exactly why we gave you two paths/DSPs!

 

Check out some of the factory presets that have two (or three!) amps and tons of effects.

 

Guess it's time to finish that blog...

It's the presets that made me wonder if here was something wrong

I prefer two different amps running as this replicates my live setup but I was hoping to add another clean amp and process my vox as well so imagine my dissapointment when I'm not even close

It seems to be more efficient seperating the cabs from the amps and if I lose a cab then I'll get some back

I did read the manual but there is still a lot of guesswork as to how much dsp certain combinations take

I'll get there

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One of my bass patches has 2 amps, 2 cabs, 2 compressors, 2 high/low pass filters all on the one DSP. So it goes to show that each amp is quite different in its DSP usage! Cause I can still add more to the path as well haha

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