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Firehawk with an amp, or with a powered speaker?


angelectrico
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Hi, I want to buy a Firehawk (or maybe POD HD500x) but my doubt it´s the same, obviously they are amp mpdelers, so it would be better to use it with a powered speaker, but Line 6 speakers are too expensive. My question would be, can I bypass the amp section, I mean, select no-amp in the menu, and use Firehawk stompboxes only, like overdrives and fx, and go straight into a guitar amp? And use it somewhat as an M13 stomp modeler? I know there is that option to, the M13, but I still like to have the amp modeling options for any given occasion when for some reason I had to go directly into a PA system without a guitar amp.

 

So if I can select no-amp and use only stomp boxes fx, I would go for a guitar amp, If this can´t be done, and theres always an amp model sounding, I would go for a powered speaker. Any help?

 

Line 6 should come up with a solution for this, instead of their powered speakers, I think it´s a little weird for a guitar player not to have an amp in the stage, I mean, something that looks like an amp, and not a powered speaker, it feels weird, it would be great if they come up with a solution like this: a powered speaker, with the looks of an amp, like a Flextone III looks for example, it would be the perfect match for PODs, Firehawk, Amplifi FX100, Helix, and have a great tone using all the capabilities of this pedalboards, and still have something that looks like a guitar amp in the stage.

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You don't need to use an amp model on the Firehawk at all. If you are just using the Firehawk as an effects board it should work fine with an amp of your choice. 

 

I personally think picking up powered speakers are your best bet. There are plenty of options other than using Line 6's powered speakers. I am using the following product with my Firehawk:

 

http://www.voxamps.com/soundboxmini

 

It's plenty loud for home practice and it has a great flat sound setting that works perfectly. Before I purchased the Soundbox Mini I had a Fender Acoustic guitar amp. It worked well too and would be another viable option for you.

 

More and more bands aren't using amps on stage and are using a variety of modeling technology. In fact, many times when you see a wall of Marshall cabs, they are just props and the real sound is being generated by an amp modeller that is being pumped through the PA system.

 

If you are concerned about having an actual amp you can use any amp with an effects loop and run the Firehawk into the return jack of the effects loop. This bypasses the amp and basically allows the Firehawk to play through an amp without coloring the sound. I have used this method when I had my POD HD500 and it worked well.

 

Many people are also using this product with great success:

 

http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/powerengine/powerengine60.html

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Well I'm no expert as I only ever used the 4 cable method once but I think the guitar goes to the firehawk input (as your diagram)

Then from the fx send of the firehawk into the input of the guitar amp

Next , guitar amp fx send into fx return on the firehawk

And last output of the firehawk into the guitar amp fx return

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Yeah think I got that right , so the bit you've got labelled as external fx would be the guitar amps preamp

That would mean you could use the sound of the guitar amp with stomp boxes in front and delays and reverbs behind

And also you could turn off the fx loop in the firehawk and use the amp models (because with the fx loop turned off you would be removing the guitar preamp from the circuit and feeding straight into the guitar amp fx return and so using only the power amp section

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mcbeddall has it right.  Here's an example diagram of running the 4-cable method with a podHD500 (or similarly the FirehawkFX).

 

http://guitargearfinder.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/4-cable-method-hd500x.jpg

 

If you have your FX loop placed early in your signal chain (before your amp/cab blocks) , you can still turn on amp and cabinet modeling as they will be in the FX loop or power amp section of the physical amp.  Sometimes it might not be perfectly ideal to use modeling in that set up (as opposed to with a powered speaker or just completely bypassing the pre-amp of the physical amp), but it doesn't mean that you won't find good sounds with some experimenting.

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mcbeddall has it right.  Here's an example diagram of running the 4-cable method with a podHD500 (or similarly the FirehawkFX).

 

http://guitargearfinder.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/4-cable-method-hd500x.jpg

 

If you have your FX loop placed early in your signal chain (before your amp/cab blocks) , you can still turn on amp and cabinet modeling as they will be in the FX loop or power amp section of the physical amp.  Sometimes it might not be perfectly ideal to use modeling in that set up (as opposed to with a powered speaker or just completely bypassing the pre-amp of the physical amp), but it doesn't mean that you won't find good sounds with some experimenting.

That is no different to my block diagram.

 

For anyone interested there is a patch under my username simply called "Loop" to use as a starting point, set up as you suggest.

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That is no different to my block diagram.

 

For anyone interested there is a patch under my username simply called "Loop" to use as a starting point, set up as you suggest.

 

 

I think i did the same thing where I didn't notice the description on the side in your diagram.  I just went for the pictures. Haha.

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Thanks for the help, at the end I went for the POD HD 500X, but now that I have it, I realized that the list of amps available is really short, I used to have a Flextone III and there was some amps that I really liked to use, like the Line 6 Super Clean, and Line 6 Mood, Bogner Ectasy, Roland JC 120, and they are not include in the POD, wich are all included in the Firehawk, and now if I want them I have to buy them and spend more money, but I don´t even know if they are compatible with POD HD500X, does someone know if they are? I think I made a really big mistake, I should go for the Firehawk instead :( POD HD it´s more expensive, and I still have to pay more money if I want amps that I had on the Flextone :( or am I missing something? How a product that is more expensive can have less amps? I know they are HD and are supposedly better, but I still like some other no-hd amps a lot, like the ones mentioned earlier.

 

So can someone help me? They are really not included??? And if I buy them, are they compatible with POD HD? I can´t return the POD and get a Firehawk, I would have to sell it in order to buy a Firehawk  :( I feel really bad right now, I feel like I did the worst buy of my life, the list of amps and effects of the Firehawk it´s largest by far, how can it be? POD HD it´s more expensive, 50 dollars more, and it has less amps and effects :/ bad, bad, bad, bad decision I made

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The amp packs are compatible with the hd500x but if you need to know more about the 500 I'd post some questions in the hd500 forum

For each of line 6 products you can download an amp and fx list to see what is included , I think of the amps you like only the jc120 is in the map packs but I could be wrong

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The POD series is designed for gigging professionals and as such contains only the best amps and effects Line 6 has programmed. This means that there will be a smaller number of amps and effects in the POD series. Firehawk is an interesting product in the Line 6 multi-effect line. It straddles the line between bedroom tool and stage tool. It contains amps and effects from Line 6's high end and low end pedals. 

 

Before I purchased my POD HD500, I had an Amplifi FX100. I wasn't overly impressed with the tones from the Amplifi so I upgraded to the POD series. I missed a couple of amps, especially the Line 6 designed ones after I made the switch so I understand your frustration. 

 

These are the amp packs you can purchase for the POD HD500X:

 

http://store.line6.com/software/model-packs.html?cat=37

 

I wouldn't be too worried about what amps the Firehawk has that the POD is missing. The best sounding amps in the Firehawk are the HD ones shared by the POD series and you should be able to dial in just about any sound you need. I do share your concern about the lack of of a JC-120

 

As much as I love my Firehawk I am finding myself using the HD amps for the most part.

 

I am not sure why you can't return the POD HD500X but I wouldn't say you made a bad decision at all. The POD HD500X is an excellent pedal with plenty of options and offers a much deeper editing of patches than the Firehawk. The people on the POD HD forum are very helpful and will have you up to speed quickly.

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I had some tones on my old pod xt live that I just couldn't recreate on the hd500 or the zoom g5 when I got the firehawk it took me 15 minutes to recreate a clean patch , crunch patch and lead patch that I was happy with

If your looking for something that's quick and simple and leaves more time for playing and less time tweaking you will no doubt be happier with the firehawk

The hd500 can be very very good but I found that a lot of the time there were way too many parameters to adjust and I ended up chasing my tail trying to get the tone just right

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Thanks for the answers, I know that the HD are the best models available of Line 6, but still, there are 2 or 3 really good sounding amps that are not HD, and I can´t return the POD HD because I live in Mexico and stores don´t do that :/ I would have to sell it on ebay for example, and then get a new Firehawk, but still, I´m going to download the extra HD models that includes the JC 120, and give it a try for some time, and keep the POD HD, the only downside is that I can only see payment with Paypal and Paypal allways gives me trouble, I can´t make the payment when everything it´s alright with my credit card. Thanks for the help to everyone that took the time to comment.

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You don't need to use an amp model on the Firehawk at all. If you are just using the Firehawk as an effects board it should work fine with an amp of your choice.

 

I personally think picking up powered speakers are your best bet. There are plenty of options other than using Line 6's powered speakers. I am using the following product with my Firehawk:

 

http://www.voxamps.com/soundboxmini

 

It's plenty loud for home practice and it has a great flat sound setting that works perfectly. Before I purchased the Soundbox Mini I had a Fender Acoustic guitar amp. It worked well too and would be another viable option for you.

 

More and more bands aren't using amps on stage and are using a variety of modeling technology. In fact, many times when you see a wall of Marshall cabs, they are just props and the real sound is being generated by an amp modeller that is being pumped through the PA system.

 

If you are concerned about having an actual amp you can use any amp with an effects loop and run the Firehawk into the return jack of the effects loop. This bypasses the amp and basically allows the Firehawk to play through an amp without coloring the sound. I have used this method when I had my POD HD500 and it worked well.

 

Many people are also using this product with great success:

 

http://www.tech21nyc.com/products/powerengine/powerengine60.html

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Apologies I always manage to quote a post and then reply separately. I'm really interested in this little Soundbox mini ppiluk. How long have you been using it? I always use headphones for practice (wife, children, ungodly hours) but if I try and show friends all I have is an old marshall amp with no effects loop and it sounds terrible. I feel cut off from the world with headphones on all the time. How loud is it at full volume?

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I have been using it for about 6 months. I originally bought it for my POD HD500. It has settings for Electric Guitar, Acoustic Guitar, Bass Guitar and Keyboard. The best setting for a multi-effects unit is Keyboard 3. It outputs about 5 watts and is plenty loud to practice without bothering your family or neighbours. The built in amps are decent but I wouldn't buy the unit with the intent of replacing anything you already have.

 

The Soundbox Mini is a stereo unit and effects such as ping pong delay sound really cool. There is also a 1/4" microphone plug which sounds good, it's better suited for talking rather than singing but it will do in a pinch. It's also battery powered there is an aux in so you can use the unit to play music at a beach or picnic.

 

I really can't say enough about this unit. It's more expensive than many of the acoustic amps and monitors I looked at but the Soundbox is far more versatile.

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Cheers. Seems like a useful device. Does the switch that they say cuts out vocal and lead guitar from aux in music actually work?

I have never really used it. Most of my backing tracks come from the internet.

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I dusted off my old Marshall 30 watt and I noticed a CD input. I take it I could try going in through that which will presumably bypass the preamp? I can't try it properly right now as I'd wake the house but I'm excited about my experiment for the morning. Can't wait. Anybody have any tales of going through a CD input on an amp?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I had some tones on my old pod xt live that I just couldn't recreate on the hd500 or the zoom g5 when I got the firehawk it took me 15 minutes to recreate a clean patch , crunch patch and lead patch that I was happy with

Just a question: Those patches that made you happy (clean, cruch and lead) did you use HD models? Or the old XT, POD Farm, etc... sounds?

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I'm curious as to how the patches that have no amp such as a few of the acoustic patches still yield a usable sound bum using the 4 CM with my fender hot rod deluxe but the volume knobs are offline. Am I therefore just hearing my power amp stage with no pre amp? The sound on those patches is crystal clear and cleaner than just plugging into the front end of the HRD! Thought I discovered something!

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  • 1 month later...

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