4 Cable Method - slightly dampened signal through chain?

[oddbeck]

Hi, who here runs the firehawk in a 4 cable method?

 

I have tried to compare the sound from my amp when I go through the firehawk, and when not, and I'm quite convinced that the distortion in the sound on my amp is slightly reduced when I have the firehawk connected.

When I chug on my guitar, either in a power chord or on a simple palm muted string, I feel that the distortion and "chug"-iness is a bit reduced when I've connected in the 4cm as to when I've got the guitar only connected to the amp. I love the distortion on my amp, but when I connect the firehawk, ... not so much.. and it's been eating at me for a long time.

 

I've looked at the fx loop settings and the volume settings are at neutral , or 0.

 

Any one experience this?

[jdebiase]

I just brought this up in a different forum but yes! I do seem to get a cleaner less distorted sound on the patches that have no amp designation. If I use the fx block to utilize my amp's pre amp then I have control over my own amp's volume and channels like plugging into the front end directly. I think 4CM gives you more options if you love your old school amp. Some people are saying they prefer powered speakers.

[pbecker314]

I have been using 4CM with the Firehawk by connecting my Tech 21 RK5 in the effects loop of the Firehawk. I really like the distortion tones on the RK5, and this way I can run the Firehawk virtual stomp boxes both before and after the RK5, plus also use the Firehawk EQ. This requires me to select "no amp" under the "clean amp" options in the Firehawk, but I still have access to the Firehawk cabs and mic sims, which I use after the loop with the RK5 to make it sound more amp-like. For patches where I need an actual clean amp tone, I just turn the Firehawk loop off (so that the RK5 is removed from the signal chain), and just run a clean Twin amp sim in the Firehawk, plus whatever effects I care to use. The whole package is very convenient, all of the pedals and the Firehawk sit together on a PT Pro board and it's all nice and stable. It also sounds very convincing through the FOH, and also through my StageSource L2t stage monitor, which I love. Regarding the specific question about whether the loop in the Firehawk kills the signal, I find no difference whether the RK5 is in the Firehawk loop or disconnected from the Firehawk. I may have deviated from the unity loop settings on the Firehawk, can't recall what the settings are offhand, but I remember experimenting with that when I first set the system up. I can tell you another thing for sure, the Firehawk is much more transparent than the Boss GT-100 that I used to use with the RK5 in exactly the same setup I described above. The Firehawk sounds much cleaner and a lot more dynamic than the GT-100. I put it down to better, more advanced electronics in the Firehawk's AD/DA converter technology, which is about 10 years newer than the GT-100.

[jdebiase]

 It also sounds very convincing through the FOH, and also through my StageSource L2t stage monitor, which I love.

Hi p...sorry what is FOH? Do you use the StageSource like an amp in live gigs or like a monitor to hear yourself? Also, I've been a little confused about whether I need to use the 4CM at all. Have you tried plugging just the 1/4 in out from the FX straight into the frond end of a conventional guitar amp, then designating "No Amp" in the Remote app? One thing for sure, if you do that and don't turn off the Amp block, it sounds horrible. Like a xerox of a xerox. Very tinny and like listening to music over your phone. If you just plug one wire into the power amp in, you basically are using a conventional amp like a powered speaker (probably not the same quality as a StageSource)! Any thoughts on this? Thanks

Jim

[mcbeddall]

FOH stands for front of house (the venues pa system)

If you want to use a guitar amp plugging into the amps fx return jack is the simplest and most effective if you intend to use the amp modelling in the firehawk.

When plugging into the fx return it can sometimes sound better if the cab within the amp model is set to "no cab"

[pbecker314]

Hey Jim,

Right, so like the man said, FOH=Front of House speakers, which for my band is a couple of QSC K12's along with two powered subs, running out of a Presonus board. I use the StageSource L2t as a stage monitor, so I run the 1/4" output from the Firehawk into the L2t input, set the stage volume to taste, and then pass the input signal out through the L2t output and into a channel on the board. I have never tried the Firehawk in front of an actual guitar amp, because these days I am running an amp-free rig. It took me a very long time to gradually make the shift away from a physical amp, but the band's stage volume was getting crazy so it became unavoidable. When I finally decided to do it, that led to a quest for decent tone without using an amp, and also without spending $3000. With my current rig, I have to say that I am happier than ever with my stage tone and also with what I'm hearing coming out of the FOH. And it didn't cost that much, especially since I was able to recycle some funds by selling my previous rigs. If you want to use the Firehawk in front of an amp, I recommend setting the amp very, very clean, and also not too bright, as I find the Firehawk tends to be fairly bright sounding. It is a pretty amazing piece of kit for not a lot of $$.

Cheers, Pete