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arislaf

Pod HD vs Helix

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https://soundcloud.com/aris-laf/pod-hd-vs-helix-1

 

https://soundcloud.com/aris-laf/pod-hd-vs-helix

 

All settings are equal. Same mics cabs and amp settings. 

Res on Pod 0%. Er 0% on both.

 

Post processing: only compressor, due to big volume differences.

 

Personal opinion: get a pod HD 500X and the torpedo studio, load some great I.R. and screw helix. What i see is that helix applied the formula of axe FX, make it louder = sounds better ( i am speaking about the last 3rd generation amps update). Sorry, pod HD is a winner here.

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Nice comparison.

 

I personally prefer the tones I can get from Helix. I too have noticed a more in-your-face louder type of sound coming from Helix in almost all cases. But I think it's more than just loudness. There is definitely more headroom in Helix which can allow for more definition, clarity, dynamics and of course, loudness. Everything seems more predictable about how effects react with amps, amps with cabs, mics with cabs, regardless of where they are placed. I like predictability.

 

But you're right in that most people probably wouldn't be able to tell a difference between the HD with IR loader and Helix when the tones are intentionally made to sound exactly the same.

 

Effects quality in Helix demolishes the HD though. There just needs to be more to fill in the holes, which I think will happen in time.

 

Bit of buyers remorse for Helix?

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Diminishing returns.  The PODHD is a very good modeler.  You're not going to see huge improvements.  However I did think the Helix was better but that doesn't mean the PODHD wasn't good or a better bang for the buck.

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Duncann, I agree that there is remorse :/ I regret about Helix. Thought that the effects sounds really great! 

 

Nico, I maximize the volume of the amp of HD, and decrease the volume on Helix, still huge difference (input 1 guitar , input 2 mic, I run on Pod HD desktop). I agree on your advices and thank you for the info.

 

Joel, Pod is great! I would love to return Helix and get the torpedo, but in Greece we don't have return policy :(

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nice job!

in any case the triple price is not justified by even slightly better sound.... :angry:

this cld possibly happen in the future, after severe price drops... :unsure:

it seems that the hd has acquired  a hard to overcome competitor:  the hd:   :D

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I personally don't think any of those clips are necessarily playing to the strengths of either unit, but, yes, in a recording of raw amp tones, I don't think the differences are going to be very noticeable. To me the main difference with the Helix is that it feels a lot more responsive and lively overall. That's not to say the HD series was bad. I still think it's probably the most bang for the buck, but I also think that, all things considered, you get a huge bang for your buck with the Helix. And it's only going to get better as time goes on.

 

I'm a little confused in regards to the recommendation about the Torpedo Studio. That's a $1900 piece of equipment in and of itself, unless you're actually talking the C.A.B. In either case, that combined with the HD500(X) might be a nice rig, but it's still going to be much more limited than the Helix.

 

Yes, the Helix is 3X as much as the HD500X, but for my purposes, it's more than 3X as useful. People's personal experiences may vary. Personally, I have over $1500 invested in my pedalboard alone, and the Helix can pretty much replace everything on there and then some.

 

Again, you won't find me saying anything negative about the HD series. It was and still is a great line. I think, though, that the Helix is a step beyond. I also think that once people see the way the Helix is developed, the differences will become even more clear.

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To my ears, based on owning both units, Helix absolutely blows the HD500X away.  It sounds more real to me and it's so easy to dial in the sound I'm after.  With the HD500X I usually ended up downloading other people's patches and tweaking them slightly instead of trying to build one from scratch.  

 

The HD500X is not lacking by any means but Helix takes it to an entirely different level IMHO.  I originally intended to keep my HD500X as a backup but after about an hour with Helix I knew that wasn't going to happen.  I sold it a couple weeks later.

 

Might I suggest selling your Helix while they're still hard to find.  You should be able to recover most of your money if you act soon.

 

Thanks for the comparison.

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If you create a fake clip where pod vs pod higher volume, people would say higher volume is better....IMO

 

arislaf, thanks for all the effort put on this.....

 

phil, can you show us a clip where the strenghs of the units are well showed?

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Phil I apreciate the honesty of all L6 members that none stated that the helix is way better on amps tone than the pod. Regarding torpedo

http://www.thomann.de/gr/line6_helix_guitar_processor.htm

http://www.thomann.de/gr/two_notes_torpedo_studio.htm

the prices are almost the same in europe.

 

Jandrio, thanks, I agree on all you said!

 

Darell, I will give a shot to try and sell it. Hope I will do the right choice, lol.

 

Aerosol, you are welcome, much appreciate your POV.

 

Nico, I left it at default, 100% right and 100% left. I will try tomorrow if you like to rise the volume and repost the sounds if you wish, no problem.

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Ok, I get it. I left it at the default pre split position. I also found that the Helix lacks the distortion on all amps. I miss the sweet tones from the supro mostly and from the JTM 45, I can not achieve them anymore.

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it seems to me that the Logidy EPSi Convolution Processor would be a much more reasonable solution:

I wonder that the device is not distributed in Germany and there are no reviews on Amazon. Didn't anybody bought the EPSi?

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however IMO the Two Notes Torpedo Studio costs really too much for the real tone improvements you'd get..

 

it seems to me that the Logidy EPSi Convolution Processor would be a much more reasonable solution:

http://www.amazon.com/Logidy-EPSi-Convolution-Processor/dp/B00WVP08EU

 

or for an all in one solution there is also the Atomic AmpliFIRE which seems a very interesting device

 

Food for thought... The owner of Logidy actually went on the record somewhat recommending against using this device as some sort cure-all for the HD500.

 

http://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/the-logidy-epsi-is-getting-an-update-to-run-irs-for-cab-sims.1392604/page-6#post-18089627

 

 

To the Pod HD users out there considering augmenting their sound with an EPSi I would like to share our end of the story. We are seeing the most returns of EPSis precisely from POD owners who have little experience using IR based detached cab simulators. Here is what we find:

 

- The cab sim in the POD is already based on some sort of convolution and is much more accurate than the web chatter would imply.

 

- The improvement brought by adding the EPSi is subtle. Although critical to some ears, it is lost on many others.

 

We find that folks who have experimented with native IR based cab sims on their computers have the best understanding of what to expect from the product. Folks who have not, tend to expect too much from the concept and be disappointed when trying it in the real world.

 

Making version C for EPSi was entirely motivated by requests from users familiar with the process and those users were quite satisfied with the results. Somehow the buzz now is that this process will turn any high end modeler into something massively better, but we've seen a number of users reporting insufficient improvement upon pairing the EPSi with their high end modeler and requesting returns as a result.

 

A quick way to evaluate the benefits of adding the EPSi to a given rig is to pair that rig with one of the many available computer IR based cab sims. All these plug ins use convolution as does the EPSi.

 

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Thanks, that EPSi info was a nice side effect of Arislaf's comparison.

Probably all depends on whether your music's sound has room for subtle details ...

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Helix works better for me.

HD 500 is also excellent, especially for the price.

 

They are both winners.

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:

and I find really strange that even by effectively using the single input approach (as you said), the HD tones are more distorted than the Helix ones

 

Could be a number of reasons, e.g.,

  • The input sensitivity is not the same
  • The input impedance is not the same
  • The Drive parameter in the Amp model does not scale the same (% versus dB, i am widely guessing)
  • The channel volume parameter ofthe Amp model does not scale the same
  • The soft clipping compression in the HD (when input or output signal exceed -12dB peak) kicks in earlier than in the Helix

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The fact you have to guess if the POD is clipping internally instead of seeing visually is really a problem, I think...

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Be careful with the Logidy hooked to the PODHD, it can easily overdrive it which makes it sound bad.  I had one, sent it back, then found out what I was doing wrong.  Doh...

 

Arislaf, one thing I want to say.  When I first bought the PODHD I almost gave up and sent it back.  After a lot of hours and some great info from people here, I got it dialed in and sure am glad I kept it.  You may find that out with the Helix.  It'd be a shame to sell it at a loss then find out later you should have kept it.

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Could be a number of reasons, e.g.,

  • The input sensitivity is not the same
  • The input impedance is not the same
  • The Drive parameter in the Amp model does not scale the same (% versus dB, i am widely guessing)
  • The channel volume parameter ofthe Amp model does not scale the same
  • The soft clipping compression in the HD (when input or output signal exceed -12dB peak) kicks in earlier than in the Helix

 

Impedance is 1 on both units

Drive is% and same on both units, also master of dep is % and same on both

channel volume could be a reason

I can not do anything for that and the first one

 

But guys, anybody consider that the pod could have more distortion than the helix? I remember ppl saying that pod has more distortion than their vox  and their deluxe... And also more bass..

That none of them is a bad thing anyway.

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1) but the controls of the two devices were not declared both as very accurate?..

 

2) so I can understand that some harmonic content and dynamics may vary a little between the two devices, but if (as an example) I connect the same guitar to both devices set the same way, at least the amount of distortion should be much the same, and not so different as I hear on the given demos..

 

3) but impresses me how the concept of accuracy can vary greatly over time

1) Yes, I remember that one also, but i remember that ppl said that there is more bass and gain on all amps, that the presence knob on bogner is not as the real one, and to the comparison videos of real amps I saw that pod doesn't sound like the real amp. I even posted some vids before. For some sounds better (e.g. me) for others worse.

 

2)True Nico, should be..

 

3) Me too. I guess that only a sound on sound comparison with a real amp could say which unit is accurate.

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Modeling wise I currently use the HD500 and a Boss GP10. Got rid of Boss GT10 and a couple others.They are both doing the job for me but at some point a used Helix may work for me. Great thread and interesting discussion.

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Just like any amp user I think it's more of an ear/personality preference....

I had a X3Live for a long time and switching to th HD500x was at first not that much of a learning curve...

 

However I stuck at first to models I used on my X3 live for a bit on the HD500x....

 

Then I finally tore into it, amp models, cabs and mics only at first and got some great tones... And I do mean tore!! I went into the system settings, all of the amp and cab tweeks on the PC....

 

And I've got increadable patches now....

 

The Helix is great, but I think if you tear into the HD500x you will get just as increadable tones too....

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Just like any amp user I think it's more of an ear/personality preference....

I had a X3Live for a long time and switching to th HD500x was at first not that much of a learning curve...

 

However I stuck at first to models I used on my X3 live for a bit on the HD500x....

 

Then I finally tore into it, amp models, cabs and mics only at first and got some great tones... And I do mean tore!! I went into the system settings, all of the amp and cab tweeks on the PC....

 

And I've got increadable patches now....

 

The Helix is great, but I think if you tear into the HD500x you will get just as increadable tones too....

 

I think this is a really good point. That is, people trying to transition to Helix from something else, or more generally from X to Y. There's a built-in bias against Helix from the start because you're familiar with something already, and when you can't get something nearly identical out of Helix, and quickly too, that's likely only increasing the bias. I've done this too. Many, many times. Including with Helix. Including when I first got the HD. For that I was constantly comparing it to what I using before. Whatever comes after Helix for me, I'm sure I'll again constantly compare the new to Helix. Even though I was at first skeptical about Helix, I was also surprised at how easy, and in relatively little time, I was able to leave the HD behind (except for some effects).

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Or maybe because you learn a lot with HD, now that everything seem easier....bad and good thing at the same time

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