Best method of setting patches levels to the same volume??

[codamedia]

On 8/17/2019 at 7:20 AM, Simon268 said:

- i am on the other hand talk about buying 12 presets from 5 different sources, all with different (but very sophisticated) philosophies about how to build presets (incl. Routing, snapshot design, .... and levelling!!). All those presets sound awesome ..... as long as i keep my fat fingers from the parameters. :-)

 

Yes... I kind of went off topic with gain staging...it was only meant as a suggestion/method to solving snapshots that were out of balance. 

 

To adjust the balances of presets... as I already suggested the quickest and easiest way to do it is in the output block. If that block is tied to snapshots, then the author of the preset intended it that way and you may have to adjust it on each snapshot rather than once per preset. That's not how I would do it, but I am not the author of those presets :)

 

I guess it all comes back to when you asked for an "easy way" to balance. IMO, the output block is the easy way... there is nothing "automated" in the Helix like Apple does with it's "sound check" feature in iTunes

[HonestOpinion]

On 8/15/2019 at 7:17 PM, codamedia said:

 

...

 

  6. Take the helix to rehearsal.... fine tune the levels with the band at full volume. 

  7. When I get to the stage... I NEVER have to adjust a single volume on the fly. This is 100% success in my book! 

 

NOTE: Sometimes #6 is not an option.... in that case I make a mental note during a live performance and tweak it after the set/show. It is NEVER a huge problem... just a small tweak here and there. 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, codamedia said:

 

I wouldn't say that, I'm pretty sure what you are saying is what I address in my bullet #6 and within my note.

EDIT: I just noticed that my note is wrong.... I meant to reference bullet #6, not bullet #4.... which likely lead to a little confusion. I've fixed my original post.

...

 

I also fine tune my levels at rehearsal per your point #6, as well as making a mental note when something isn't leveled right during the gig. At that point I may do a quick save of my adjustment during the show or address it afterwards depending on the circumstances. My point was more in response to your point #7.  No matter how much I prepare my levels ahead of time I still find I need to do some on the fly adjustments via my volume/expression pedal when playing live. One of the things that I can't always predict ahead of time is how loud the other instruments in the rest of the band may be. Sometimes the adjustment is in response to others in the band being louder or quieter than anticipated.

 

I am one of the folks here that believe that the more tools available for setting levels the better. Using your ears is critical and if there was good metering available I would use that as well. I always find it easier to have some visual feedback in addition, but not instead of, using my ears.  I feel the same way about for example compression. I use my ears but I love an interface that has the ability to show when the threshold has been crossed and the compression is in effect.

[Simon268]

23 hours ago, codamedia said:

....If that block is tied to snapshots, then the author of the preset intended it that way ...

I surely hope so!!! ;-)

If an author does ANYTHING in his preset unintenionally, i wouldn't be a customer for too long. :-D :-D :-D

 

What to you think about my approach: To add a fixed gain block directly before the output block.

?

It should conserve the author intended level relations between the snapshots ... or am i missing something?

(needs very few DSP and should fit in every preset ... maybe after a little block shifting)

 

I thought a lot about why this even is a topic for me now on the Helix and never before.

And I think the reason is that it is my first unit with analog (= not part  of the preset) volume  knob (in combination with no output level meter).

There are many approaches on how to set the button (12 o'clock, 10 o'clock, max, ...) - all working fine for the resp. preset author, but a difficult for someone who uses presets with different 'volume knob philosophies.

 

 

 

Bye

 

Simon

[codamedia]

44 minutes ago, Simon268 said:

What to you think about my approach: To add a fixed gain block directly before the output block.

?

 

For presets that tie the output block to snapshots your method seems like a reasonable solution to me. For consistency among all of your presets I don't see any harm in using it all the time. 

 

44 minutes ago, Simon268 said:

I thought a lot about why this even is a topic for me now on the Helix and never before.

And I think the reason is that it is my first unit with analog (= not part  of the preset) volume  knob (in combination with no output level meter).

There are many approaches on how to set the button (12 o'clock, 10 o'clock, max, ...) - all working fine for the resp. preset author, but a difficult for someone who uses presets with different 'volume knob philosophies.

 

I think you are right, I guess it goes with the territory of buying/downloading third party presets. 

[zolko60]

45 minutes ago, Simon268 said:

What to you think about my approach: To add a fixed gain block directly before the output block.

?

It should conserve the author intended level relations between the snapshots ... or am i missing something?

Yes. You are playing for yourself and for your audience so there is no need to show any respect for the author's level intensions.

[Simon268]

8 hours ago, zolko60 said:

Yes. You are playing for yourself and for your audience so there is no need to show any respect for the author's level intensions.

My point is not so much respect (or the lack thereof) but that the level relations typically serve a distinct purpose (the soft swell whispers, the rhythm punches, ....).

And that is worth preserving.

 

 

[crbush1011]

No matter what you use, amp, footpedals, kemper, etc., you will have to use your ears to level volumes.

 

Even plugged straight in to a multiple channel amp, you will have to do this.

[Indianrock2020]

 

Chiming in on an old thread because I'm considering upgrading my Youlean loudness app to the pro version.  
When our rehearsals start, just after the last member arrives, we go quickly through all of the songs and then go home. THERE IS ZERO time to tweak patch levels with the band present.  Often, the sound guy isn't even there on rehearsal nights.
The leader might break for 20 seconds to let you adjust if a specific patch is way off , level wise, but that's it.
And that's why I use my ears and meters at home.

[glennsong]

There's this handy little thing on your guitar that you can adjust volume with at any time between patches

[MartinDorr]

Yes, but that little thing on your guitar is doing this by changing essentially the Drive and for some Amps indirectly the Treble level, which is probably not what you’ld want, especially if your tone relies on a specific amount of hair or break up. You are way better off putting any volume adjustability post Amp or even after the last post amp effect.

[therunawayfive]

Utterly deranged that the response to a post like this

 

On 6/1/2021 at 4:18 PM, Indianrock2020 said:

 

Chiming in on an old thread because I'm considering upgrading my Youlean loudness app to the pro version.  
When our rehearsals start, just after the last member arrives, we go quickly through all of the songs and then go home. THERE IS ZERO time to tweak patch levels with the band present.  Often, the sound guy isn't even there on rehearsal nights.
The leader might break for 20 seconds to let you adjust if a specific patch is way off , level wise, but that's it.
And that's why I use my ears and meters at home.

 

is something like this

 

On 9/3/2021 at 2:06 PM, glennsong said:

There's this handy little thing on your guitar that you can adjust volume with at any time between patches

 

 

Talk about bad faith. I found this thread because I'm in a similar situation--not quite as restrictive, but there's certainly a limited amount of time I can ask my band to just play while I tweak knobs. I'm new to using modelers live and I'm kind of dreading setting up and line checking at a show and realizing my cleans are barely audible or a lead I thought was boosted is getting buried or something like that. The complexity of what's going on is so vast and the remedy is a lot more involved (esp on a Stomp XL) compared to boosting my amp volume and turning a pedal or two down (or the reverse).

 

I built a few presets (and tried to manage gain/levels) at home this week, then used the Stomp XL at practice last night for the first time. It worked great, but there is a not insignificant amount of tweaking on my part and patience on the part of my bandmates to manage before this is ready for live use. At home and at practice, for the foreseeable future, I'll be running it back through a DAW to eyeball starting points (and to use HX Edit for speed).

[Anderton]

I wonder if a small box with a three-position switch for +2 dB, 0 dB, -2 dB would be helpful for a quick tweak? When I master a track, I often ask for three versions of a mix - identical except one has the vocals up +1 dB  and the other has vocals -1 dB. Doing so has been a life-saver on several occasions.

 

As to measuring levels with LUFS to get a baseline, remember that LUFS metering integrates over time. It's best to take a reading after playing for at least 15-30 seconds.

 

As to the comment about the guitar volume control, some people simply don't realize the full implications of the interaction between a guitar's electronics with what follows it. 

[quabit]

On 2/2/2016 at 6:25 PM, JLEpperson said:

My patches are all over the place in volume.   I want to even them out without changing the sound of the patch.   What is the best method?

Thanks

What I do is hook the Helix to the computer and bring up Helix editor and Audacity. Audacity will let you monitor an input and since the Helix is technically an Audio interface you can see the output of the patches you are using and make adjustments to them in Helix editor by watching the Record meter in Audacity. By the way Audacity is free. 

 

In Audacity you will need to click on the "Click to Start Monitoring" Record meter and play something on your guitar, bass etc, you will see the meter register the output of the Helix. If you don't see anything you may want to check the input device selected in Audacity preferences.  Mine worked without having to change anything in Audacity. FYI, I noticed the Helix volume knob didn't matter what I set it to which make sense since mine is set to control the XLR level. 

 

The link below is from Audacity so it tells you what you will see on the Recording Meter toolbar. I adjusted all my patches to about a -12 to give some head room and tested the patches on a Behringer X32 and it matched what I saw in Audacity . My output into the soundboard was about a -12 and that is with the volume knob maxed since it controls the XLR as mentioned before.. 

https://manual.audacityteam.org/man/meter_toolbar.html#recording

 

As for where to make adjustment in Helix edit you can start with the last output block (circle). You can adjust DB levels there to bring you levels up or down in while watching Audacity. I did this to all my patches and when I play live I know I am at the right levels and can control loudness with the volume pedal or if needed by adding a 3 db boost and know that I left enough headroom so I won't clip.