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Best method of setting patches levels to the same volume??

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On 8/17/2019 at 7:20 AM, Simon268 said:

- i am on the other hand talk about buying 12 presets from 5 different sources, all with different (but very sophisticated) philosophies about how to build presets (incl. Routing, snapshot design, .... and levelling!!). All those presets sound awesome ..... as long as i keep my fat fingers from the parameters. :-)

 

Yes... I kind of went off topic with gain staging...it was only meant as a suggestion/method to solving snapshots that were out of balance. 

 

To adjust the balances of presets... as I already suggested the quickest and easiest way to do it is in the output block. If that block is tied to snapshots, then the author of the preset intended it that way and you may have to adjust it on each snapshot rather than once per preset. That's not how I would do it, but I am not the author of those presets :)

 

I guess it all comes back to when you asked for an "easy way" to balance. IMO, the output block is the easy way... there is nothing "automated" in the Helix like Apple does with it's "sound check" feature in iTunes

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On 8/15/2019 at 7:17 PM, codamedia said:

 

...

 

  6. Take the helix to rehearsal.... fine tune the levels with the band at full volume. 

  7. When I get to the stage... I NEVER have to adjust a single volume on the fly. This is 100% success in my book! 

 

NOTE: Sometimes #6 is not an option.... in that case I make a mental note during a live performance and tweak it after the set/show. It is NEVER a huge problem... just a small tweak here and there. 

 

 

 

8 hours ago, codamedia said:

 

I wouldn't say that, I'm pretty sure what you are saying is what I address in my bullet #6 and within my note.

EDIT: I just noticed that my note is wrong.... I meant to reference bullet #6, not bullet #4.... which likely lead to a little confusion. I've fixed my original post.

...

 

I also fine tune my levels at rehearsal per your point #6, as well as making a mental note when something isn't leveled right during the gig. At that point I may do a quick save of my adjustment during the show or address it afterwards depending on the circumstances. My point was more in response to your point #7.  No matter how much I prepare my levels ahead of time I still find I need to do some on the fly adjustments via my volume/expression pedal when playing live. One of the things that I can't always predict ahead of time is how loud the other instruments in the rest of the band may be. Sometimes the adjustment is in response to others in the band being louder or quieter than anticipated.

 

I am one of the folks here that believe that the more tools available for setting levels the better. Using your ears is critical and if there was good metering available I would use that as well. I always find it easier to have some visual feedback in addition, but not instead of, using my ears.  I feel the same way about for example compression. I use my ears but I love an interface that has the ability to show when the threshold has been crossed and the compression is in effect.

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23 hours ago, codamedia said:

....If that block is tied to snapshots, then the author of the preset intended it that way ...

I surely hope so!!! ;-)

If an author does ANYTHING in his preset unintenionally, i wouldn't be a customer for too long. :-D :-D :-D

 

What to you think about my approach: To add a fixed gain block directly before the output block.

?

It should conserve the author intended level relations between the snapshots ... or am i missing something?

(needs very few DSP and should fit in every preset ... maybe after a little block shifting)

 

I thought a lot about why this even is a topic for me now on the Helix and never before.

And I think the reason is that it is my first unit with analog (= not part  of the preset) volume  knob (in combination with no output level meter).

There are many approaches on how to set the button (12 o'clock, 10 o'clock, max, ...) - all working fine for the resp. preset author, but a difficult for someone who uses presets with different 'volume knob philosophies.

 

 

 

Bye

 

Simon

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44 minutes ago, Simon268 said:

What to you think about my approach: To add a fixed gain block directly before the output block.

?

 

For presets that tie the output block to snapshots your method seems like a reasonable solution to me. For consistency among all of your presets I don't see any harm in using it all the time. 

 

44 minutes ago, Simon268 said:

I thought a lot about why this even is a topic for me now on the Helix and never before.

And I think the reason is that it is my first unit with analog (= not part  of the preset) volume  knob (in combination with no output level meter).

There are many approaches on how to set the button (12 o'clock, 10 o'clock, max, ...) - all working fine for the resp. preset author, but a difficult for someone who uses presets with different 'volume knob philosophies.

 

I think you are right, I guess it goes with the territory of buying/downloading third party presets. 

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45 minutes ago, Simon268 said:

What to you think about my approach: To add a fixed gain block directly before the output block.

?

It should conserve the author intended level relations between the snapshots ... or am i missing something?

Yes. You are playing for yourself and for your audience so there is no need to show any respect for the author's level intensions.

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8 hours ago, zolko60 said:

Yes. You are playing for yourself and for your audience so there is no need to show any respect for the author's level intensions.

My point is not so much respect (or the lack thereof) but that the level relations typically serve a distinct purpose (the soft swell whispers, the rhythm punches, ....).

And that is worth preserving.

 

 

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No matter what you use, amp, footpedals, kemper, etc., you will have to use your ears to level volumes.

 

Even plugged straight in to a multiple channel amp, you will have to do this.

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