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Varialogue1

Firehawk and Mustang

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McBeddall, I remember reading on one post that you had a Fender Mustang in the past and you were quite pleased with the results. I've been listening to amps all weekend on Youtube and after flirting momentarily with the Roland Blues Cube Artist, I'm now officially gagging for a Fender Mustang IV ver2. I just need to be sure that it is going to get along with my Firehawk. Am I on safe ground if I take the plunge? Just say the word and I hit the button!

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Yeah it sounds good and you have the mustang as back up if anything goes wrong with the firehawk

You will get better results in my opinion if you disable the cab sims in the firehawk

It will sound like a regular amp as opposed to full range clarity of FRFR that may or may not be what your looking for

You will get better results if you create the patches while playing through the mustang at the volume you need live

If you use a variax, acoustic sounds are usable but not brilliant , again the lack of clarity vs FRFR plays a part.

You can run in stereo with the mustang iv, I never tried it as I had a mustang iii but I'd expect it to be an improvement

 

Also you will need to make sure you have the latest firmware on the mustang so that you can position its fx loop to post preamp

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Trying to do the same thing however, silverlight stopped working and now Fuse wont even open. Oh well, will try a fresh download of everything.

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Hopefully you get back on track lynchworm. Mcbeddall out of interest, did you find the fender amp simulators better on the amp or on the firehawk? Did you always plug in to effects return or were there any occasions you would have went into the input?

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I ran through the input for 6 months by selecting the studio preamp model on the mustang , I did this because it was before the update was released and the amps still coloured the sound due to the fx loop position, definitely much better after the update going into the fx return , much clearer and punchy

 

There are some good amps in the mustang , fender ones definitely the highlight but I preferred the control of the firehawk and the mustang effects are very limited

I never experimented with 4 cable method for long because I didn't think there was an amp in the mustang that covered all my tones and I didn't want to be switching 2 pedals for 1 patch (changing fender amp models and firehawk patches)

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Thanks mcbeddall extremely useful as always. I like the idea of being able to plug straight into it should disaster strike. I've looked at every possible partner for the firehawk and although it's probably not the best option I'm not quite ready to give up on amps. That guy Shane from in the blues on YouTube seems to really rate the mustang.

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From my experience everybody whoever played through one rates them, even guys who really like their pro level gear can't deny that it's a great amp, when you factor in the price and value for money it's a no brainer, I honestly regretted selling mine since the day it sold but I needed the cash flow at the time, if I'd waited a month I could have hung on to it and still got my lt3 speaker but I was a little stuck for space also and didn't want to just dump it in the garage to be forgotten about. Still, after about 100 gigs and roughly 200 rehearsals it certainly didn't owe me anything

 

I'd be really interested to hear how you think the stereo effects sound through it if you do indeed set it up stereo

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I'm a bit confused as well. McB are you saying that when you use the Mustang you use none of the FH amps or you do use them, but with cabs turned off? Please clarify the Mustang scenario. Also, are you using the lt3 as an amp. If so how. Not just as a monitor? Thx!

Jim

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Yeah when I used the mustang I used the firehawk amps with the cab sim off (no cab)

With the cab sim on you effectively have 2 cabs in your signal chain , the modelled cab and the real cab of the mustang , in some cases it can sound OK but generally the sound is much more clear and direct with cab sim off

 

I use the lt3 in reference pa mode, as with all FRFR speakers it takes a bit of eq tweaking to get it right but the pay off is that everything sounds that bit clearer and more defined , clean sounds with delay are a definite highlight, still not 100% happy with my distorted sounds but I'm pretty sure I'll get there soon

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Yeah when I used the mustang I used the firehawk amps with the cab sim off (no cab)

With the cab sim on you effectively have 2 cabs in your signal chain , the modelled cab and the real cab of the mustang , in some cases it can sound OK but generally the sound is much more clear and direct with cab sim off

 

I use the lt3 in reference pa mode, as with all FRFR speakers it takes a bit of eq tweaking to get it right but the pay off is that everything sounds that bit clearer and more defined , clean sounds with delay are a definite highlight, still not 100% happy with my distorted sounds but I'm pretty sure I'll get there soon

When you did use the mustang with cab sims off in the FH were you using 4CM method and the Mustang as an FX Loop on the app? I'm asking this same question in dozens of different forums because I'm not understanding how this device is to be used for live gigs with a standard guitar amp. The M9 was just a stomp box modeler that allowed you to use a std guitar amp. The FH has all these beautiful built in amps and cabs that make my Fender HRD a second sister. And I agree with Rayneman, at low practice volumes the thing sounds great. But I was a bit disappointed with the live gig sound at a large outdoor venue. I'm considering 2 options: the Mustang IV or the Friedman ASM-12. I'm assuming I will get those crystal clear cleans and lux delays etc with good volume and headroom live if I switch. Any thoughts? Thx

Jim

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I used the firehawk for everything , amps and effects so no I wasn't using 4cm , I just had a cable from the firehawk output (L mono) into the fx return jack on the mustang (that uses the power amp part of the mustang only so the mustang preamp doesn't affect tone )

I liked the mustang but decided to go for a FRFR speaker set up instead because I wanted to run direct to the pa , therefore I need to monitor the sound with something that sounds similar to a PA, which for me was a stagesource LT3, also I record direct a fair bit and I wanted the patches to cross over easier

There is no shortcut to creating really good patches, you simply must dial them in using the gear you use live and at the same volume you play live, that is the mistake most people make with modellers (myself included)

So if you get a mustang and get it sounding great , it won't sound great when you plug into a different amp or speaker or if you record direct, you need to create different patches for different applications even though you're aiming for the same sound

The most likely reason your patches sounded bad at the gig is because you created them at low volume, when you amplify the same patch to loud levels the bass and treble overpowers the mids, it needs to be eq'd differently

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I used the firehawk for everything , amps and effects so no I wasn't using 4cm , I just had a cable from the firehawk output (L mono) into the fx return jack on the mustang (that uses the power amp part of the mustang only so the mustang preamp doesn't affect tone )

I liked the mustang but decided to go for a FRFR speaker set up instead because I wanted to run direct to the pa , therefore I need to monitor the sound with something that sounds similar to a PA, which for me was a stagesource LT3, also I record direct a fair bit and I wanted the patches to cross over easier

There is no shortcut to creating really good patches, you simply must dial them in using the gear you use live and at the same volume you play live, that is the mistake most people make with modellers (myself included)

So if you get a mustang and get it sounding great , it won't sound great when you plug into a different amp or speaker or if you record direct, you need to create different patches for different applications even though you're aiming for the same sound

The most likely reason your patches sounded bad at the gig is because you created them at low volume, when you amplify the same patch to loud levels the bass and treble overpowers the mids, it needs to be eq'd differently

Aye, Aye Aye! Now I'm wondering if my amp (Fender HRD) will actually be fine live if I redo the Patches at "gigging volume," first! I was under this assumption that the Red master volume knob took care of this. It does not, apparently. I do not go through a PA at the gigs, nor do I mic the amp. We mostly play small venues and I use an amp the old school way, behind me for stage volume and for the audience. Half the time the other band mates cannot hear each other! But, going through the PA washed away the vocals completely. Before I run out and buy another amp or powered speaker, I better try your idea. You are a great resource on these forums!! I saw back in August that you almost ditched your FH. What made you decide to keep it? Thx!

Jim

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great information, McBeddall.  I never really thought about the higher volumes sounding different than low volumes.  I have a Mustang III and run it into the return on back.  At a show, I usually crank to about half way up on master and give it as much bass as I can get without cracking.  When I've left the stage at a show to see what we sound like, my guitar is HUGE.  I think our usual sound guy is amazing, he makes us sound great, all we need to do is be on time and hit the notes.

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I nearly ditched the firehawk because of the slow patch changing and warped sounds on firmware 1.10 but I liked the editor so much that I hung out to see if things improved and they did improve with 1.20

 

I'm still in the process of dialling my own patches in as I haven't had the lt3 speaker very long , we had a rehearsal tonight and I managed to tweak 3 or 4 patches between songs and the more I use the firehawk The more I love it, my advice is to definitely stick with it, it can be very frustrating at times when something sounds off but as you get more and more patches dialled in it gets easier and easier as you learn more about the machine, we do quite a few varied covers and I'm yet to find a tone that I couldn't recreate

Last week we were running through streets have no name by u2 and I tweaked the preset that comes with the firehawk to sound good through my lt3 , it took me about 3 minutes to sort the eq , change delay level and alter the reverb so I was happy with it , halfway into the 2nd verse the band from next door came in and asked if they could listen for a while, they all commented on how close to the edges tone it sounded

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Would you mind sending a screen shot of your settings for the delay, reverb etc. I'd love to try that. Or, I guess you could publish it to the cloud for all of us to steal! But let me know if you do and tell us the title your giving it! You da man!!

Jim

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Yeah just search "mcbeddall" on the tone search in the app

I think all the tones I've posted are ones I set up with the mustang as I don't think I've posted any for use with the lt3 yet

Try them out , you might find something that works

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Just applied the 2.2 update to the Mustang and the Firehawk now works very well with it. Some presets sound great as is and some will need a little tweaking.

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Don't forget to try it with your cab sim off, I found most of the time it sounded much better without the firehawk cab and sometimes if the eq sounds off it fixes that too

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Just applied the 2.2 update to the Mustang and the Firehawk now works very well with it. Some presets sound great as is and some will need a little tweaking.

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To all of you FH friends: Hasta La Vista! I just put my 5-month old FHFX on the Reverb.com listing! My good old Fender HRD sounded so much better with my old M9 set up in a little a/b test I did today. It blew the FH away for power, grit, tone the works. I got tired of people telling me my live tone was muddy or weak since I started using the FH! So, if anyone knows anyone interested in buy a slightly used FH, go to reverb.com and check out. Perhaps with a different output device, someone wil enjoy it as much as you all do! I will miss that remote app!

Jim

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Fate intervened. I thought I had found a great deal on a Firehawk Mustang IV but in the early hours of the morning following me placing the order I woke up in a cold sweat. The reason it was cheap was it was not version 2, it was the original. I've cancelled the order and think it happened for a reason. My heart is actually set on a Roland Blues Cube Artist. It has an effects loop. Has anyone any experience of the Firehawk and the Blues Cube? Will they play nice?

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Varialogue1,

the blues cube Artist is way better in combination with the firehawk than the Mustang. I've owned a mustang for a few years, but only liked the "loud cleans" from the amp itself - never liked the distortion/gain sounds. So in the end, I mainly just used the effects return of the Mustang to amplify my POD HD. It was decent sounding, but certainly not great. I also recently tried the Blues Cube in my local musicstore in the same manner (so just the POD amp models into the Blues cubes effects return - no cab simulation active), and that sounded way better then the Mustang ever did. Plus the cleans (warm cleans) and dynamics of the Blues Cube itself are fantastic. In the end I didn' buy it, because an Ibanez TSA15H tube head combined with a Celestion creamback speaker sounded even better (in combination with the POD -as an amp itself the Blues cube was also better), but it was a close call.

 

Based on my "several-years" experience with the Mustang (and trying out all possible options to get my sound better) and the instant-good-sounding test I did with my POD in the effects return of the Artist, I'd definitely go with the Blues Cube, no doubt about it. That Blues cube also seems to have a speaker that matches very well with a modelling amp (a lot better then the 70/80 inside the Mustang, which was rather "harsh-sounding"). I've tested lots of combinations (direct into PA with logidy EPSI, into effects return of my Blackstar ID, Blackstar Club and Blackstar One Heads), and I think the Blues Cube is an ideal combination with the Firehawk.

 

PS: I did the tests with my POD HD in my local music store, not with my Firehawk, but since I only use the POD/Firehawk amp models without the cabinets activated and use the "line/direct out setting" (and POD and Firehawk amps are exactly the same) this is exactly the same for the Firehawk. I get exactly the same sounds out of my Ibanez amp effects return using both POD HD and Firehawk patches, so that should be no different for the Blues Cube.

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The blues cube has arrived. I'll have to wait until Saturday to put it through its paces. The look of it sent a shiver up my spine. I wish I didn't have to go to work tomorrow.

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The blues cube has arrived. I'll have to wait until Saturday to put it through its paces. The look of it sent a shiver up my spine. I wish I didn't have to go to work tomorrow.

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I want to purchase the Firehawk FX multi effect processor but right now the only amp I have is a Fender Mustang II. Can I connect the Firehawk to a Mustang II? If so how should I do it? Then, if I can't use the Mustang II, what is a good amp that would be easy to connect it to? If any of these questions have already been answered in previous posts please forgive me.

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I had a mustang iii which worked pretty well (not as good as a full range speaker though but that's a different question )

I plugged the firehawk output into the fx return jack on the mustang, that bypasses the preamp in the guitar amp.

The question is do you have an fx return jack on the smaller mustang ii?

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I had a mustang iii which worked pretty well (not as good as a full range speaker though but that's a different question )

I plugged the firehawk output into the fx return jack on the mustang, that bypasses the preamp in the guitar amp.

The question is do you have an fx return jack on the smaller mustang ii?

No. I have FTSW input and regular input.

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In that case the best you can hope for is to plug into the regular input of your mustang and then select the most neutral sounding amp model you can on the mustang.

 

On the mustang iii there was an amp called "tube preamp" or might have been "instrument preamp" it coloured the sound less than any of the other models , set the tone controls fairly neutral, turn the reverb right down and keep the gain fairly constant (halfway should do it, if you adjust this at anytime it is likely to affect the sound quite a lot).

 

You will probably get best results by also disabling the speaker sim in the firehawk by turning cab off.

 

I got some decent results with my mustang but a powered pa speaker is a much better as the speaker in the mustang won't reproduce the really high shimmery frequencies that add a lot of pizazz to the tones

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