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reaper121088

dual amp high gain setup live. help!

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Hi everyone, really hope someone can help. 

 I best start with my live setup...

 

Krank Revolution series 1 head

Pod HDPro

Marshall 4x12

Ibanez RGD 7 string

 

Basically, I'm looking for any help getting a high gain, dual amp sound. I literally just read that the best sound for the setup I'm using would be to use pre amp models instead of full, but I won't have chance to test this theory til our show on Saturday. 

 At the moment, I'm using the Angel F-ball with parametric EQ in front (I've got the usual tube screamer, compressor, gates etc as well) with no cab sim for the first chain.

 Second part of the chain I'm using the Uber (pretty much same setup on the f-ball with different gain, eq and bias settings).

 It all sounds pretty thin and fizzy and super processed. That heavy saturated, dual amp Arch Enemy style tone is similar to what I want to achieve. Thoughts on whether pre would be better?

 

 My clean channel is also dual (clean) amps (no cab sim), but it's still super quiet.

Lead is similar to my rhythm channel with more mids, tiny bit more gain, delay and a chorus.

 I was looking into the 4 cable method and using the tone from the Krank (best scenario), but I don't have a midi foot controller to be able to change patches and amp channels. Plus that thing is LOUD...

 Another thing I was going to mention was the whole delay trail thing while switching channels, but I guess that's something I'll have to live with. I do miss having that little trail off after a solo when switching back to rhythm. Bit too static with the HDPro :( 

 

 Anyway, if any of you can make sense of this immense mass of words, it would be a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge help! Thanks in advance!

 

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Hi everyone, really hope someone can help.

I best start with my live setup...

 

Krank Revolution series 1 head

Pod HDPro

Marshall 4x12

Ibanez RGD 7 string

 

Basically, I'm looking for any help getting a high gain, dual amp sound. I literally just read that the best sound for the setup I'm using would be to use pre amp models instead of full, but I won't have chance to test this theory til our show on Saturday.

 

No matter what piece of gear it is, or what else is in your rig, road-testing anything in front of an audience usually doesn't end well. That statement is multiplied by an order of magnitude with the POD. I spent a couple of weeks getting comfy with it before I even took it to a rehearsal, never mind a gig. I wouldn't go switching amp models to test a theory on stage...besides, even though using the preamp models might be the "correct" way for your set-up, it doesn't mean that it will sound the best to you.

 

Before I migrated to an FRFR rig, I used full models with a Carvin power amp and a Marshall 4x12. Couldn't get the preamp only models to sound right no matter what I did. They all sounded brittle, like a rusty chainsaw. YMMV,though. There's only one way to find out. At the end of the day, there is no "right", "wrong", or "best" approach. Your ears will tell you when you get it right.

 

I've tried out untested gear, or new settings with old gear on stage in the past...9 out of 10 times it will be a clusterf***. Unless you actually want a "Spinal Tap moment" that you'll laugh at later, I'd rethink changing anything until you mess with it in a controlled environment first.

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+1000 Cruisinon:

 

Untested anything in front of customers is never a good thing.  You wouldn't take your band in front of an audience without rehearsal, why take a whole guitar rig you haven't rehearsed?  They didn't come there to watch you fiddle with your setup, so take whatever time it takes to get it right, work it in with the band at rehearsal, and when it's ready...take it out there.

 

Like cruisinon I had my POD rig for about a month before I was comfortable taking it onstage, and even then there were tweaks I needed to do afterwards.  But it would have been a disaster if I had taken it out there the first weekend after I got it.  There will be other times and you don't need to do it right now...

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Thanks guys, I've got a couple of minor things I can adjust so I don't have to do much to the sound. To make do until rehearsal. Any advice on the original question? Have either of you tested the preamp only method? (for trying out after the show)

 I really want to go down the 4 cable method route (the above question is really as a stop gap until I can get a midi controller and test everything out). 

 I believe you can use the fbv shortboard and the 4 cable method to switch amp channels too...that correct? I don't really wanna buy the shortboard if it doesn't change amp channels. (this is a side question...REALLY sorry!!!!!) E.g: rhythm channel would have a gate and amp channel 1; clean would be chorus, delay, verb and amp channel 2; lead would be gate, eq, compressor, delay, chorus, amp channel 3; then rhythm channel with delay. I used to do this with a GCX audio switcher and Ground control pro using analogue pedals, but to change the amp channels, had to use a 'y' cable...

So so sorry for asking so many noobish questions...just don't wanna get one and it won't work how I need it to

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I tried the preamp models...hated them. But that's me. You might find them to be the best thing since indoor plumbing.

 

4CM only makes sense if you want the amp for your basic tone, and the POD only for FX, which you can certainly do. But it begs the question why buy a modeler if you don't want the models? If all you need is FX, there are simpler and cheaper multi-fx units out there. And if you are going to use the amp models, then all the 4CM does for you is use up more cables, and make setting up and tearing down take longer. Come out of the POD straight into the FX return, and call it a day. Just my 2 cents...

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I tried the preamp models...hated them. But that's me. You might find them to be the best thing since indoor plumbing.

4CM only makes sense if you want the amp for your basic tone, and the POD only for FX, which you can certainly do. But it begs the question why buy a modeler if you don't want the models? If all you need is FX, there are simpler and cheaper multi-fx units out there. And if you are going to use the amp models, then all the 4CM does for you is use up more cables, and make setting up and tearing down take longer. Come out of the POD straight into the FX return, and call it a day. Just my 2 cents...

I already had the modeller and currently use the connection you suggested. It was fine for a while, but I do prefer the sound of my amp to the pod amp models. It was more for the fact that I wanted everything in one rack unit and something I had more control over volume wise. That's now not a problem. Plus I prefer the effects in the pod than other units. Plus I already have it, so it makes sense to carry on using it rather than buy something else. If I can't control amp channels, I'll just play around with the amp models. Apparently I can switch amp channels if I get a midi foot controller with relay switching ins/outs. Like the behringer fcb1010. Ideal scenario. Not sure exactly how to do it though, or if the fbv short board has these relay switching Jack sockets...I'm GUESSING I would just use a Y cable from the foot switch socket on the amp to the fbv. And time wise, it won't take that much longer. Everything's flight cased, so it's like unplug, put lid on, done

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Downloaded that the first day I got it and it sounds terrible live. :(

They all do...

 

Expecting someone else's patches to sound the same for you is like ordering a 3 piece suit online, then being surprised that it doesn't fit like the custom-tailored one that's hanging in your closet...one brand's 42 long, is another's 76 extra fat (thank you, "Smokey and The Bandit"...credit, where credit is due ;) )

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Yeah I never like to use existing presets without changing them. I swapped the studio eq for a parametric and pretty much changed all the settings in the end

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Hi everyone, really hope someone can help. 

 I best start with my live setup...

 

Krank Revolution series 1 head

Pod HDPro

Marshall 4x12

Ibanez RGD 7 string

 

Basically, I'm looking for any help getting a high gain, dual amp sound. I literally just read that the best sound for the setup I'm using would be to use pre amp models instead of full, but I won't have chance to test this theory til our show on Saturday. 

 At the moment, I'm using the Angel F-ball with parametric EQ in front (I've got the usual tube screamer, compressor, gates etc as well) with no cab sim for the first chain.

 Second part of the chain I'm using the Uber (pretty much same setup on the f-ball with different gain, eq and bias settings).

 It all sounds pretty thin and fizzy and super processed. That heavy saturated, dual amp Arch Enemy style tone is similar to what I want to achieve. Thoughts on whether pre would be better?

 

 My clean channel is also dual (clean) amps (no cab sim), but it's still super quiet.

Lead is similar to my rhythm channel with more mids, tiny bit more gain, delay and a chorus.

 I was looking into the 4 cable method and using the tone from the Krank (best scenario), but I don't have a midi foot controller to be able to change patches and amp channels. Plus that thing is LOUD...

 Another thing I was going to mention was the whole delay trail thing while switching channels, but I guess that's something I'll have to live with. I do miss having that little trail off after a solo when switching back to rhythm. Bit too static with the HDPro :(

 

 Anyway, if any of you can make sense of this immense mass of words, it would be a huuuuuuuuuuuuuge help! Thanks in advance!

 

Hey man,

 

I believe every single person here understands your frustration. We all started this way. So I would suggest firstly to stay positive, because the Pod HD is a very good unit.

 

Now, high gain sounds are a bit tricky to build and from my experience it takes time and effort to build a good one of those.

 

The best advice I could give you despite using your Pod HD with a physical amp/cab or direct, is to avoid using 2 different amps together  (especially for high gain tones). 

 

So just start with an amp you like and spend most of your time in tweaking the amp's eq. (It's very important to have a good "base" before you start messing with eq's)

 

After that, place a midfocus EQ at the end of the chain (settings vary because they are dependent on the tuning and other factors, but you can find some very useful EQ measurements that pfsmith0 has posted in this forum and work with them)

 

And last, "troubleshoot" your tone. Does it sound thin? Lower some highs. Does it sounds muddy/boomy? Lower some bass.

 

Use graphic/studio EQ's to affect wide frequency areas and then experiment with some parametric eq's.

 

P.E.Q's allow you to sculpt your tone in a more detailed way.

 

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask. 

 

P.S: Arch Enemy's Tone is really nice! I've seen them live with Angela and they kicked lollipop! I also picked up an Michael Amott's pick as well! :D

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Yeah I'll try that. I think I'm gonna go 4 cable method now though as the behringer foot controller was only £100. I saw them too :) backstage passes, press passes, signed vinyl and guitar picks...all because they missed a signing session at graspop metal meeting 5 years earlier!!!! Never ever gonna be that lucky again. Haha

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Yeah I'll try that. I think I'm gonna go 4 cable method now though as the behringer foot controller was only £100. I saw them too :) backstage passes, press passes, signed vinyl and guitar picks...all because they missed a signing session at graspop metal meeting 5 years earlier!!!! Never ever gonna be that lucky again. Haha

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