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Hi guys

 

Have one question regarding POD HD pro with FRFR Active speaker. This to provide me guidance setting my rig.

 

 

My active speaker is an EV ZLX12P, given at 1000w Peak and 250 w rms and most important around 120 db spl.

 

Yesterday I was in rehearsal and feel like i was near to maximum volume from speaker perspective

 

 

Speaker volume : Max

Input sensitivity : Max for Line

 

Pod Master : Max

Channel volume : 50

Master DEP : 75

 

Mixer 0 and centered

 

So my question with an FRFR rig with similar spec do you achevied a loud enough sound, for example to cover an acoustic drum with a nervous drummer ;)

 

 

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I can only compare it with my setup which is on a Yamaha DXR12 with the following specs:

 

700 Watts (600 Watts RMS LF Driver, 100 Watts RMS HF Driver)

 

Max SPL 132db

 

In my case there is no gain or input sensitivity adjustment just a Level for each input port.

I plug into the 1/4" Line input port which is leveled from the factory at -10 dBu

My level adjustment on the speaker is set to unity (0 dB or mid point)

 

I use the POD 1/4" R(mono) output with the switch set to line output.

 

POD Master volume is typically set around the 11 o'clock position when at home and roughly just below 12 o'clock at practice or live and neither myself nor anyone else in the band has any problem hearing me.  Granted we use electronic drums which are pumped through an ART Tube MP into a Mackie Thump 12, but I have used this same setup with a live drummer using an acoustic kit and was still roughly at the same setting.  Generally speaking, with my POD Master volume set at 12 o'clock I don't think I'd want to go much higher because it's LOUD.  There may be some differences in the levels our band plays at because we play at a level assuming everything will be mic'd and going through the PA.

 

But I couldn't imagine how painful it would be if both my speaker and my POD master volume were maxed out.  I think that would almost be unbearably loud.  Granted there are some differences in our speakers, but not that much, so I have to wonder about either the levels you set on your patches, or your input sensitivity setting on the speaker.  Assuming you're not using pre-amp amp models on the POD, how are you determining the proper input level setting on your EV?

 

I'm honestly mystified how maxing out your POD Master volume and your speaker volume isn't making your ears bleed.  Granted there's a bit of difference in SPL between the speakers, but even 120 SPL is roughly the measurement where you reach the threshold of discomfort.  It's louder than the measurement of a chainsaw at 1 meters distance and would fall under the Federal mandates for wearing ear protection.

 

Something appears to be out of whack here....

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Hi guys

 

Have one question regarding POD HD pro with FRFR Active speaker. This to provide me guidance setting my rig.

 

 

My active speaker is an EV ZLX12P, given at 1000w Peak and 250 w rms and most important around 120 db spl.

 

Yesterday I was in rehearsal and feel like i was near to maximum volume from speaker perspective

 

 

Speaker volume : Max

Input sensitivity : Max for Line

 

Pod Master : Max

Channel volume : 50

Master DEP : 75

 

Mixer 0 and centered

 

So my question with an FRFR rig with similar spec do you achevied a loud enough sound, for example to cover an acoustic drum with a nervous drummer ;)

That's gonna depend entirely on the ability of the speaker in question. In that regard, FRFR is no different than a guitar amp. It's either loud enough, or is not...doesn't much matter what the claimed wattage is. If you have the master volume on both the POD and your speaker maxed out, there's nowhere else to go...generally not a good idea. Can't believe the limiter isn't kicking in. You're gonna blow the speaker eventually, probably sooner than later. I also find it baffling that this isn't loud enough, unless the goal is to be detected by the seismographs at Cal Tech...

 

As for the channel volume and master DEP...those vary. Some models are inherently louder than others, so those numbers don't mean much.

 

I leave the master volume on my L2T around 12 o'clock, and rarely need to go much past 11-12 o'clock on the POD's master volume...and it's plenty loud.

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Speaker volume : Max

Input sensitivity : Max for Line

 

Pod Master : Max

Channel volume : 50

Master DEP : 75

 

Mixer 0 and centered

 

Your HD settings are fine to avoid overloading any post mixer effects, but the speaker is has 2 max positions - I presume by Max for Line that you mean 0 (12 o'clock).

 

How are you connecting the two together XLR or 1/4"?

 

If XLR then you should know that the HD500 output is Mic Level, so turn that speaker sensitivity all the way up to MAX (for Mic).

 

If 1/4" then check your 1/4" Out switch next to the expression pedal and make sure it is set to Line and not Amp.

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Your HD settings are fine to avoid overloading any post mixer effects, but the speaker is has 2 max positions - I presume by Max for Line that you mean 0 (12 o'clock).

 

How are you connecting the two together XLR or 1/4"?

 

If XLR then you should know that the HD500 output is Mic Level, so turn that speaker sensitivity all the way up to MAX (for Mic).

 

If 1/4" then check your 1/4" Out switch next to the expression pedal and make sure it is set to Line and not Amp.

 

 

Héhé nice !! i'l will give a try tonight, cause i've seen a switch for xlr(that i use)  and if i'm correct it was in Line position so should be theoricaly correct

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I can only compare it with my setup which is on a Yamaha DXR12 with the following specs:

 

700 Watts (600 Watts RMS LF Driver, 100 Watts RMS HF Driver)

 

Max SPL 132db

 

In my case there is no gain or input sensitivity adjustment just a Level for each input port.

I plug into the 1/4" Line input port which is leveled from the factory at -10 dBu

My level adjustment on the speaker is set to unity (0 dB or mid point)

 

I use the POD 1/4" R(mono) output with the switch set to line output.

 

POD Master volume is typically set around the 11 o'clock position when at home and roughly just below 12 o'clock at practice or live and neither myself nor anyone else in the band has any problem hearing me.  Granted we use electronic drums which are pumped through an ART Tube MP into a Mackie Thump 12, but I have used this same setup with a live drummer using an acoustic kit and was still roughly at the same setting.  Generally speaking, with my POD Master volume set at 12 o'clock I don't think I'd want to go much higher because it's LOUD.  There may be some differences in the levels our band plays at because we play at a level assuming everything will be mic'd and going through the PA.

 

But I couldn't imagine how painful it would be if both my speaker and my POD master volume were maxed out.  I think that would almost be unbearably loud.  Granted there are some differences in our speakers, but not that much, so I have to wonder about either the levels you set on your patches, or your input sensitivity setting on the speaker.  Assuming you're not using pre-amp amp models on the POD, how are you determining the proper input level setting on your EV?

 

I'm honestly mystified how maxing out your POD Master volume and your speaker volume isn't making your ears bleed.  Granted there's a bit of difference in SPL between the speakers, but even 120 SPL is roughly the measurement where you reach the threshold of discomfort.  It's louder than the measurement of a chainsaw at 1 meters distance and would fall under the Federal mandates for wearing ear protection.

 

Something appears to be out of whack here....

 

 

To set my EV Speaker, i've two measurement first a digital peak meter on lcd screen that i try not overdriving and keep some headroom, and a witness light in front of the cab that blink whenever amp limitation start to avoid damaging

 

My guitarist mate has only a 50w Engl tube amp, and has the habit to play ridiculously loud, and i've struggling with my rig to be heard during rehearsal.

 

I'll try tonight maximizing input sensistivy as suggested , reducing the global Speaker volume and see if i can increase effective volume of my rig

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so if i'm correct for all your suggestions,

 

 

With speaker set to unity , input sensitivy set correctly and handling volume with POD master at 12, i should start killing my band mate ?

 

Correct ?

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Tell your band mate that to be a good band ate you need to play together and listen to each other.

 

Loud is never a substitute for good.

 

I am so thankful I play with seasoned players who have nothing to prove.

 

Use the 1/4 in. Out jack on your POD.

 

If that's still not enough buy another powered speaker and put it on a pole and beam it right at his head.

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so if i'm correct for all your suggestions,

 

 

With speaker set to unity , input sensitivy set correctly and handling volume with POD master at 12, i should start killing my band mate ?

 

Correct ?

Trying to predict what should or shouldn't happen based on a theoretical discussion of amp settings is almost impossible. The amp will either be able to compete with this guy, or it won't. Obviously there's an issue...your band mate is drowning you out. Some 50W tube amps can melt concrete, and this guy likes to rattle the windows.

 

Absurd volume doesn't make a band sound good. Tell him to turn it down a notch. It's either that, or you need to invest in something with more headroom so the dB cage fight can proceed. ;)

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lol it's not prediction, covering an acoustic drum  is a known landscape  , it give guidance, i can rephrase but this remains the same, standing a live rehearsal in a metal band with acoustic drum and 50 w tube amp. That's rock !!! unfortunatly not mixing or sound design :)

 

Here i have not much way to show what the problem is.

 

But i agree other guitarist tend to drown everything but despite this fact at the moment i feel my speaker is lacking power,  i've read lot a review saying that it was so powerfull and i seems definitly not.

 

I've tried suggestions, so my xlr outputs were right on line level so maximized, backsize meter display around 80% or 90% ,for test i've tried to clip a bit the inputs , with pod master at 12o clock  and speaker master at -6db i've been able to strum a chord without been killed by my girlfriend....

 

 

 

edit : i've tried XLR (mic and line) and 1/4 jack too same no change

 

 

arf :D

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lol it's not prediction, covering an acoustic drum is a known landscape...

Yes...but you're asking others to tell you if your rig "should be" loud enough based on a bunch of numbers which are nothing more than a general guideline for the set-up you describe. No one can answer that, because they're not standing in the room with you. The speaker is either sufficiently powered, or it's not...no matter what the spec sheet says, or conventional wisdom or other's experience tells you.

 

If the gear is set optimally, and it still isn't cutting it, then either the other guy has to stop thinking that he's playing to a stadium crowd and turn down, or you gotta go shopping.

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I had the same problem as the op with a hd500 running into an alto ts110a

I could never get enough volume, going from memory I think the speaker was 400 watts rms and 800 watts peak

Unfortunately I can't be of any help as I never found the answer, I spent about 3 months trying though , ploughed these forums and tgp, YouTube etc but just couldn't compete volume wise with our singers fender mustang 100 watt on 3.5 volume

I ended up flipping the 500 for a zoom g5 and the alto for a mustang same as our singer

One thing I never tried which I regret now is trying another pod through the speaker to see if my pod was indeed outputting at a reduced volume, unfortunately at the time I didn't know anybody with a pod so my only option would have been to take my speaker to a store and pretend to want to demo a pod through it

Like I say I wish I'd done that though

 

I suspect a faulty pod to be honest

 

Forgot to mention that before I got the hd500 I was using a pod xt live, all my other gear and guitars were the same and I never had a problem with volume back then, so I concluded it was something with the hd500 causing the issue

 

Hope you solve it

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Yes...but you're asking others to tell you if your rig "should be" loud enough based on a bunch of numbers which are nothing more than a general guideline for the set-up you describe. No one can answer that, because they're not standing in the room with you. The speaker is either sufficiently powered, or it's not...no matter what the spec sheet says, or conventional wisdom or other's experience tells you.

 

If the gear is set optimally, and it still isn't cutting it, then either the other guy has to stop thinking that he's playing to a stadium crowd and turn down, or you gotta go shopping.

 

 

around 120 db spl.  Cruisinon2  i feel that this postulate been clear enough 

 

So i feel my conclusion seems quite reasonnable : But i agree other guitarist tend to drown everything but despite this fact at the moment i feel my speaker is lacking power,   cause even acoustic drums was covering me

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I had the same problem as the op with a hd500 running into an alto ts110a

I could never get enough volume, going from memory I think the speaker was 400 watts rms and 800 watts peak

Unfortunately I can't be of any help as I never found the answer, I spent about 3 months trying though , ploughed these forums and tgp, YouTube etc but just couldn't compete volume wise with our singers fender mustang 100 watt on 3.5 volume

I ended up flipping the 500 for a zoom g5 and the alto for a mustang same as our singer

One thing I never tried which I regret now is trying another pod through the speaker to see if my pod was indeed outputting at a reduced volume, unfortunately at the time I didn't know anybody with a pod so my only option would have been to take my speaker to a store and pretend to want to demo a pod through it

Like I say I wish I'd done that though

 

I suspect a faulty pod to be honest

 

Forgot to mention that before I got the hd500 I was using a pod xt live, all my other gear and guitars were the same and I never had a problem with volume back then, so I concluded it was something with the hd500 causing the issue

 

Hope you solve it

 

 

Thx not sure i can't solve it too, i've tried , as in still in the POD experimentation phase, i've plugged it in my audio interface and i can easily reach digital 0db and even clip, so i tend to believe my pod is ok

 

Maybe my speaker is f*******d

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around 120 db spl. Cruisinon2 i feel that this postulate been clear enough

 

So i feel my conclusion seems quite reasonnable : But i agree other guitarist tend to drown everything but despite this fact at the moment i feel my speaker is lacking power, cause even acoustic drums was covering me

I'm not implying that anything you said was unclear. I said you're asking an unanswerable question. There's only one person who can determine if the thing is loud enough or not, and thats you.

 

And for what it's worth, 120 dB is at or near the pain threshold...so if this is your goal, this entire discussion is moot, because you will end up deaf as a post playing at those levels.

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I never recorded with mine but using headphones was always fine

I wonder if one of the guys who still have one would share a patch with you?

Like one that works well with their frfr monitor, it might help point you in the right direction (I'm wondering if your eq needs to be more focused on the mids)

Be careful about pushing the volume too hard though, I melted one speaker at rehearsal and had to pay for the repair.

I also suspected the speaker but eliminated it when I ran the 500 into the mustang when I first got it (using as a poweramp into fx return ) the mustang speaker got very hot despite still not being loud enough

At that rehearsal I ended up switching to the modelling included in the mustang and I had to turn down considerably as it was way too loud, this led me to trade the 500 in the same week as I just had enough at that point

How long have you had it?

Are you in the UK?

I'm starting to suspect it's possible you have my old unit, unless it's the 500x you have?

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I'm not implying that anything you said was unclear. I said you're asking an unanswerable question. There's only one person who can determine if the thing is loud enough or not, and thats you.

 

And for what it's worth, 120 dB is at or near the pain threshold...so if this is your goal, this entire discussion is moot, because you will end up deaf as a post playing at those levels.

 

 

Hey Cruisinon2  i'm not sure answering by what you think of what i ask will be usefull in any case. By the way you misleading yourself by answering to your own interpretation.

 

 

If using FRFR rig with POD and active speaker at a given SPL was so easy , i'm not sure this forum would even exists

 

 

But anyway , i know that my speaker is either over rated or faulty

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I never recorded with mine but using headphones was always fine

I wonder if one of the guys who still have one would share a patch with you?

Like one that works well with their frfr monitor, it might help point you in the right direction (I'm wondering if your eq needs to be more focused on the mids)

Be careful about pushing the volume too hard though, I melted one speaker at rehearsal and had to pay for the repair.

I also suspected the speaker but eliminated it when I ran the 500 into the mustang when I first got it (using as a poweramp into fx return ) the mustang speaker got very hot despite still not being loud enough

At that rehearsal I ended up switching to the modelling included in the mustang and I had to turn down considerably as it was way too loud, this led me to trade the 500 in the same week as I just had enough at that point

How long have you had it?

Are you in the UK?

I'm starting to suspect it's possible you have my old unit, unless it's the 500x you have?

 

 

hi nope, i'm in France, my POD is HD PRO X bought one year ago from Thommann

 

I've a rocktron velocity 300 power amp and it work fine with it (despite the fact i was totally pod newbie and my sound were awfull at the moment :D) level was never an issue , i had plenty of head room with volume.

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I'm beginning to think it may be something with the speaker.  To be honest I don't know of anyone using the EV's so there may be an issue there, particularly given that they provide an input sensitivity control which is very odd as far as FRFR speakers are concerned.  We know a lot of folks are using Alto speakers and some are using the Yamaha DXR or DSR line, but this is the first encounter I've had with the EV's.

 

In looking over the EV video tutuorial the only thing that jumps out at me as different than most FRFR speakers is first, the input sensitivity which shouldn't be a problem as long as it's set to just below the clipping stage as you would do in any gain staging exercise.  The other thing is the built-in limiter which can be adjusted to kick in at some certain level below max to make sure the volume doesn't increase to the point that it causes damage.

 

If this was me here's how I'd approach the system.

 

First, I'd probably set my POD master volume at around 50%.

Plug it into the speaker using 1/4" line from the POD.

Play your guitar in a normal fashion including leads that may bump up the volume a bit and watch the input meter.  Adjust the level on the input meter until it's comfortably just a little bit below where it clips and make sure you check all of your patches to ensure your sensitivity is as high as it can go without clipping.  DO NOT CHANGE THE MASTER VOLUME ON THE POD DURING ANY OF THIS AS THAT WOULD AFFECT THE LINE LEVEL.  Basically maximize the line level for a 12 o'clock position on the POD.

Next I would look at the limiter setting in the DSP options and maybe set that at around -10dB or possibly less like even -6dB.

 

After all of that I would then play normally through the speaker.  If it works as I'm thinking it should about 12 o'clock on the speakers volume control should be pretty darn loud and it will go up from there.

 

Here's what I'm thinking is happening.  Somewhere in the process between gain staging the input signal coming from the POD at full master volume, and the setting on the limiter you're causing the limiter to kick in at a level way below where it should kick in, and it's causing you to not be able to actually get all of the output volume out of the speaker because no matter how much you turn up the volume, it's going to engage the limiter to stop it from overloading even though it's not really that loud.

 

This all starts with getting a good, full gain staged input signal.  I recommended the 12 o'clock position on the pod, but you can choose any level you want although I wouldn't recommend going much higher than that.  What ever level you set you POD Master Volume, once you've gain staged that signal to be just below clipping, that's the hard maximum you don't want to exceed on your master volume because it will either clip, or it will cut in the limiter.

 

At a decent gain staged signal level coming in at half volume from the POD you should easily be able to crank up the volume on the speaker and as long as the limiter isn't set too low you should have plenty of headroom before it engages.  I suspect the 1 or 2 o'clock position on the speaker's volume is going to be pretty darn loud if this is what the problem is.

 

Otherwise make sure you set the MODE on the DSP to LIVE to make sure you have a good flat EQ for live music.

 

I hope that helps...

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FRFR powered monitors tend to point the sound one direction, so they don't fill the space around the band like a typical guitar cab will. That 50 Watt tube amp is going to be hard to compete with. The Alto TS110a is 300W RMS (600 peak). I've cranked mine among some jam sessions next to tube amps like that, and it can just barely hang, but I've also optimized my POD HD dirty tones to maintain creamy high output in the mids (using compression and sag).

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Actually some of what's happening with FRFR speakers as compared to traditional guitar amps is the design of an FRFR speaker tends to create a pretty well-defined sound disperson rectangle.  For example, my Yamaha DXR12 has a 60 degree vertical pattern and a 90 degree horizontal pattern.  Compared to a traditional amp cabinet where theres pretty much a round sound cone of about 60 degrees, you can see how the sound would be focused much tighter on a guitar amp than an FRFR speaker.  Standing directly in front of both at the same volume levels there will likely be a greater perceived volume from the guitar amp.

 

This makes sense when you take into account the FRFR speakers are generally designed as front of house speakers and need to cover a wide area but don't want to waste energy beaming it into the ceiling or the floor.  This results in greater throw or projection of the sound with less loss over longer distances than a guitar amp.  This is why you're better off in a mixed environment (amps and FRFR) to manage the stage volume and send everything through the mixer because it's the great equalizer of sound dispersion characteristics.

 

Speaking as a soundman this is one of the great challenges when dealing with guitar players in particular.  When I've run sound for larger venues with multiple bands you'll invariably get that one guy with the Marshall stack that thinks he needs to turn up his volume to 11.  I try explaining these facts, but he's more interested in doing a demonstration of his amp than having the band sound good.  Typically this results in me taking his amp out of the mix, which results in the first 10 or 12 rows of people on his side of the stage only hearing him.  About halfway back his amp plays out so the rest of the band is heard perfectly throughout the rest of the space while he's more of a background whisper.  Some people just can't seem to learn.....

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Yep that's a bad habit seen in 20 to 30 years guys band 

 

My mate guitarist is so used to play alone that he doesn't even know guitars must been tied together , i completetly agree your remark , and Crusinion2 and Iknowathingatwo...

 

My goal is to have a bit of headroom, cause we are a young band  and playing mostly complete live gig, so playing the head in my amp or speaker when my mate during a gig start feeling alone, is not a great solution :)

 

And of course band that take time to really set their sound, and arrange music to use correct sound or elements, the right moment , don't really needs to plays so loud, which is a fake loudness.

 

We've done this job in my previous band and we reach a nice live mix.  With this one i'm just slowly trying to demonstrate them these aspect has we are recording a first demo, i point errors in sounds or music, with crash cymbal against singer, or distorted bass that kills everything, but a band is a sensitive team to convince it take time :)

 

 

And yes i notice that my FRFR despite the low volume really push sound in front

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Chiming in on this...

 

I'm running the Alto TS10 and never encountered had a problem with volume. It's been plenty loud for just about any rehearsal or venue I've played at. However, the key for me was getting a stand for it and getting it up off the floor. PA speakers are pretty direct in their sound delivery - very poor off-axis sound - so getting it up off the floor I think is a must.

 

I bought a used stand for 30 bucks I think from one of the local shops around here, and it made a HUGE difference. You might look into one.

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I use a POD HD500X with TWO EV elx112p's. I too had headroom issues with volume. It was loud enough until the rest of the band decided to turn up or my speaker placement wasn't ideal. I solved it by using a dual amp chain. Same amp, settings, cab settings, effects in both chains A & B, with my mixer centered @ 0 for both Path A & B (mono). It seemingly doubled my volume output without changing my tone at all. Of course my internal output mode is set to Studio Direct, output switch is set to line, & i use the 1/4" outs from my POD, & feed one to each speaker, leaving the XLR outs for FOH. My amp channel volumes are set to 70% for rhythm, & 85% for solo patches. I started building my patch with my input & master volume @ 50% on my EV's, as well as Master Output @ 50% on my POD. From time to time i have to adjust volume levels on my EV's depending on speaker placement, but it's minimal. I rarely have to turn my POD master past 1 o'clock. I play hard to heavy rock, & have no volume issues whatsoever, especially for soloing, when i NEED to be over the top.

It COULD make your ears bleed, it's that loud. :P

Hope this helps.

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I use my POD 500x with a Yamaha DBR12 as my Monitor and a Superlux SF12A for Side Fill or to get my tone to my mates on stage.

I keep the master of the POD at max to minimize noise of the class-D amp of the the speakers.

 

I feed the FRFR with the 1/4" outs and am always connected to PA via XLR.

Loudness is no problem as I'm not half the way to max on the FRFRs.

 

What I don't like in this setup is the need to grab around the speaker to level the volume, if there is a need to.

But changing volume using the master on the POD would change the level going to PA and to FOH, so I see no other way except putting some hardware between POD and FRFR :(

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I also output 1/4" to a Yamaha DXR12 monitor as well as an XLR to the mixer.  In my case I keep the DXR12 set at 50% and use my POD master volume to set the appropriate volume for the stage which generally tends to be just below 50% on the POD master volume for live performances and about 43 - 45% in rehearsal.  With my stage volume set to appropriately blend on stage, I then gain stage my channel output at the mixing board to match up with the mix for the front of house.  In our case we pretty much know where our gain staging levels need to be at the mixing board to have a correct mix, so the only thing that varies venue to venue is the master fader on the mixing board.

 

The reason this works for me is because I normalize the volume levels on all my patches when I build them.  I do this by first creating the patch for the sound I want, then using a sound meter app on my phone, fine tune the volume and final EQ for the patches.  Generally at around 48% on my POD master volume all my patches normalize at rougly 80 dB.  In this way all my patches are at the same relative output level so that if I turn up the POD master volume, they all stay in sync volume wise.  Of course I only adjust the POD master volume one time at the beginning of the setup and PRIOR to the sound check and gain staging process on the mixer. 

 

Doing it this way I've been able to adjust to any number of different venues.  Because 99% of the time the instruments all go through the PA all we have to worry about is getting our stage mix balanced appropriately.  The PA does all the heaving lifting.  Even in the largest of venues both indoor and outdoor I've never had to go much above 50% on my POD master volume.  But that also requires everyone in the band to have some discipline over their sound volumes so they mix appropriately on stage.

 

The added benefit to doing things this way is that you almost have a studio quality output at the board.  If I split off a signal from each channel into a multitrack recorder I only have to make very minor adjustments to have a pretty polished result.  Here's an example of one such recording:

 

http://www.soundclick.com/player/single_player.cfm?songid=13203974&q=hi

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Thank you. Where do you measure with the meter app?

Like a mic, direct in front of the speaker, or at a regular hearing distance?

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I just use the phone mic which is placed in front of me about 3 to 4 feet from the speaker.  I don't point it directly at the speaker, but rather towards the room to get the ambient level, which seems to be about right for my purposes.

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I use my POD 500x with a Yamaha DBR12 as my Monitor and a Superlux SF12A for Side Fill or to get my tone to my mates on stage.

I keep the master of the POD at max to minimize noise of the class-D amp of the the speakers.

 

I feed the FRFR with the 1/4" outs and am always connected to PA via XLR.

Loudness is no problem as I'm not half the way to max on the FRFRs.

 

What I don't like in this setup is the need to grab around the speaker to level the volume, if there is a need to.

But changing volume using the master on the POD would change the level going to PA and to FOH, so I see no other way except putting some hardware between POD and FRFR :(

 

Having a little white noise coming out of my FRFR's in my opinion is a small price to pay to be able to kneel down mid-song and adjust my stage volume as needed, as opposed to getting at the volume controls on my FRFR's mid song. Just make sure whoever is running your FOH knows that you have headroom & you may have to use it. Nothing worse than playing a prominent part in a song and on stage it's deathly quiet or over the top loud. Either one can kill a song in a hurry. Besides, the noise you're going to hear is all minimal stage noise that shouldn't bleed to your stage mics anyways. Just my opinion.

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Having a little white noise coming out of my FRFR's in my opinion is a small price to pay to be able to kneel down mid-song and adjust my stage volume as needed, as opposed to getting at the volume controls on my FRFR's mid song. Just make sure whoever is running your FOH knows that you have headroom & you may have to use it. Nothing worse than playing a prominent part in a song and on stage it's deathly quiet or over the top loud. Either one can kill a song in a hurry. Besides, the noise you're going to hear is all minimal stage noise that shouldn't bleed to your stage mics anyways. Just my opinion. 

 

Best solution would be to get your sound + vocals back from the PA into your FRFR and the tech-guy keeps an eye on you, so he can adjust the levels quickly as needed.

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I think the best solution is to normalize the volumes on your patches ahead of time with a sound meter, then set your master volume appropriately at soundcheck time.  If you have to bend down and change your volume at performance time, you need to have a LOOOOOONG talk with your bandmates about beind disciplined with their volumes.

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Best solution would be to get your sound + vocals back from the PA into your FRFR and the tech-guy keeps an eye on you, so he can adjust the levels quickly as needed.

 

That would work in theory for sure if your tech is within earshot, but getting the sound techs attention and being able to tell them what i need on stage is next to impossible in a crowded venue if the board is 50-100' away. That's usually the case. 

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EQ is pretty important in a band situation, it may not seem as loud because the frequencies are overlapping with the other instruments, I run a L2T with mine and half on master on that and half on master on the HD500X and it's HEAPS of volume with my band :)

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That's a REALLY good point Jeremy.  I think a lot of people underestimate the value of finding unused sonic space for their patches.  Especially if you're playing with other guitars or keyboards.

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I had a big problem when I switched from my tube amp and pedals setup to the HD500X, just wouldn't cut thru and I kept turning up to compensate but it just sounded like a muddy mess, was majorly disappointed until I got that sorted, and now my bandmates say I'm too loud LOL!

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This goes along with something I've often mentioned but I think it's worth re-stating here when it comes to using a FRFR setup.

 

Although there are a variety of ways people may opt to use the POD HD, if you're using it as a modeler going direct to the PA mixing board and/or to a FRFR monitor and you want to get the very best out of that arrangement, the paradigm and approach you should use is FAR more like what you would do in a recording studio than what you would do in a typical live stage setup.

 

When approaching a guitar sound in a recording studio you're looking to find a sonic space where the guitar adds to the mix.  What this means is not thinking only about the guitar, but where that guitar sits in the mixture of drums, vocals, other guitars, keyboards, etc.  Because of the accuracy of FRFR setups the effect of different mic's, different cabinets and resonator effect, EQ, SAG, BIAS, etc. can all be useful in finding space for the guitar that stands out without having to rely solely on volume.

 

As an example, in our band we have drums, bass, two guitars, harmonica, and (typically) one lead vocal and two harmony vocals.  One of the songs we do is a song written in 1948 and redone in many different styles called "Satisfied Mind".  We've do this song in a 1970's funk style similar to Average White Band, but without the horns.  My part in all of this is to add a lot of funk colorations similar in many ways to the guitar work done on AWB's 'Cut The Cake'.

 

For this setup I use a Fender Strat on the middle pickup position and my signal chain consists of a Tube Comp with Threshold at about 75%, Level at about 19%, a Twin Reverb amp with just enough gain to give it some bite, bass, mid, and treble all in the vicinity of 50%, and presence at around 40%, and that's it.  No reverb or any other effects.  I normalize the volume of the output to be at roughly 80db which is where I keep all my patches.

 

When I play this patch by itself it's very "strat" like, even almost to the point of sounding like a telecaster, and not very full, and when played with the band it doesn't appear to have a lot of volume, but it cuts through the mix very nicely and can be heard clearly even at it's perceived lower volume.  Some of this is due to the very strat-like sound, but a lot of it is due to the Twin amps brightness and shimmer and a very dry signal.

 

These are considerations that would likely be more at home in a studio than on a live stage, but the effect on the stage is a studio-level sound in a live environment, which is remarkable in my opinion.

 

This is why I advocate that if you're using a FRFR setup, you may find approaching your sound as if you're a recording engineer finding space for that instrument in the mix a much more productive paradigm than just dialing in a tone for yourself in a vacuum.

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When I occasionally play in a band with another "volume wars " star guitarist I simply change my POD output setting to combo return and plug it into either my Marshall JCM800 combo or my Fender BDRI and watch his little Vox AC15 get squashed like a fricken bug lol!

 

That little Marshall will peel the paint off the wall.

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I have a similar setup. In all my presets, I put the mixer at the end of the path and set the volumes to +6.0 dB or +9.0 dB, depending on the amp model.

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