pp67 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Just wondered if people using their Helix into the effects return of their real amp and guitar cab are getting best results using preamp only models or the full amp models ( but no cab modelling ) ? I'm also finding that some preamps are too quiet to use such as the Divided Duo and the Matchless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmntshredder Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Just wondered if people using their Helix into the effects return of their real amp and guitar cab are getting best results using preamp only models or the full amp models ( but no cab modelling ) ? I'm also finding that some preamps are too quiet to use such as the Divided Duo and the Matchless. I like the full amp models MUCH better. Maybe it's different depending on your amp, but the preamps just don't sound good to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pp67 Posted February 26, 2016 Author Share Posted February 26, 2016 I did my first gig with the Helix using preamps amps only and it sounded good in the mix. I'm now trying to tweek my sounds and found that the full amp models sound better and....well..."fuller". I'm wondering whether they won't sound so good in a full band mix though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RRMark Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I did try the preamp only models, but soon realised I was missing a lot of character without the full amp. Particularly noticed this on the Mandarin, all the gain was lost and as you say the Divided Duo was almost silent. Sounded much better with the full amps without cab into tube power amp+cab. Currently gone back to full frfr with Ownhammer IRs thru an Atomic CLR, makes it very hard to put the guitar down once I've started playing ☺ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vmoncebaiz Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 I've had better luck with the full amp models into power amps so far. My brain is telling me that shouldn't be the way to set it up, but my ears are telling my brain to shut up. Stupid brain. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hideout Posted February 27, 2016 Share Posted February 27, 2016 My brain is telling me that shouldn't be the way to set it up, but my ears are telling my brain to shut up. Stupid brain. LOL. Sounds like a Homer Simpsonism. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anttileinonen Posted March 5, 2016 Share Posted March 5, 2016 Hello, I am a total newbie here so please bear with me... But to this topic, I have just purchased the Helix unit and it looks and feels fantastic and it will be my main effects board for many years! For the record with the Helix I use mostly : - Don Grosh Electrajet custom guitar with Lindy Fralin Unbucker 9k and Texas specials pickups - with some presets I have to roll down guitar treble!?! - my main amp is Hughes and Kettner 1x12" Quad 40w with TAD EL84:s and TAD 12ax7 tubes - my second amp is solid state Peavey Studio Pro ("Transtube") 1x12" to high gain input I have tested all the normal ways to use it but the FRFR because I have not those amps (yet...?). To my mind this unit is as hard to get sound right as the POD HD 500 did. The only way I could use it was to use preamp models. The Helix seems to be like this also? When I use the normal amp + cab modeling, the sound gets too loud from the Helix itself and I have to roll down the tube amp and solid state amp volumes a lot. Also when I tried to use only amp modeling the sound was too trebly and loud. And when testing with 4CM I realised I would need so much more cables that the connecting and in live situations would be ridiculous. So I decided to stick with the same preamp perspective as with the POD HD 500 earlier. With that I can use the Helix main volume in work room playing in 11 o´clock and the master volumes in amps are quite decent. I have noticed that in Helix settings the best for me are : * Guitar in pad OFF * Guitar in impedance 22k Ohm * my tone settings for the output amps are mostly set to 12 o´clock, sometimes I have to roll treble quite down/back about 9-10 o´clock But in all I find the preamp best suitable for me at this starting point. I have used the Helix unit only for 2-3 days now. But the editing is fun and quite easy. I am still waiting for the librarian software. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tmntshredder Posted March 6, 2016 Share Posted March 6, 2016 Hello, I am a total newbie here so please bear with me... But to this topic, I have just purchased the Helix unit and it looks and feels fantastic and it will be my main effects board for many years! For the record with the Helix I use mostly : - Don Grosh Electrajet custom guitar with Lindy Fralin Unbucker 9k and Texas specials pickups - with some presets I have to roll down guitar treble!?! - my main amp is Hughes and Kettner 1x12" Quad 40w with TAD EL84:s and TAD 12ax7 tubes - my second amp is solid state Peavey Studio Pro ("Transtube") 1x12" to high gain input I have tested all the normal ways to use it but the FRFR because I have not those amps (yet...?). To my mind this unit is as hard to get sound right as the POD HD 500 did. The only way I could use it was to use preamp models. The Helix seems to be like this also? When I use the normal amp + cab modeling, the sound gets too loud from the Helix itself and I have to roll down the tube amp and solid state amp volumes a lot. Also when I tried to use only amp modeling the sound was too trebly and loud. And when testing with 4CM I realised I would need so much more cables that the connecting and in live situations would be ridiculous. So I decided to stick with the same preamp perspective as with the POD HD 500 earlier. With that I can use the Helix main volume in work room playing in 11 o´clock and the master volumes in amps are quite decent. I have noticed that in Helix settings the best for me are : * Guitar in pad OFF * Guitar in impedance 22k Ohm * my tone settings for the output amps are mostly set to 12 o´clock, sometimes I have to roll treble quite down/back about 9-10 o´clock But in all I find the preamp best suitable for me at this starting point. I have used the Helix unit only for 2-3 days now. But the editing is fun and quite easy. I am still waiting for the librarian software. With 4cm it is extremely important that you make sure that Helix is at unity gain with your amp. With my amp, I have the big volume knob maxed, and I roll off the return level -3db. It's also important to know if your amp's effects loop is instrument or line, as this determines your setting for the 1/4" out in global settings. Make sure that your effects loop is set to instrument though, as this is the output that goes to the front of your amp. All of the amp models are going to be set by default to extremely high volumes (at least with the big volume knob maxed). I simply adjust the volume within the amp model. I roll off the bass frequencies at 90 and the treble at 6 with the master eq per the advice of others on this forum. In regards to difficulty of set up, just make yourself a snake and label the ends according to where they get plugged in, and it should only add 30 seconds to your time. To me the amp models lose all of their character by using the preamp models. By using full amp models and making sure everything is set up correctly, I've been able to get some great tones out of the Helix. Now the question is whether or not to ditch the amp and go all in with a quality FRFR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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