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WithALoudNoise

FRFR Discussion (specifically, L2 Stagesource)

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Hey all, looking for input from other L2 and Helix users. I recently purchased an L2T and was working through many of the patches on the Helix. I had the L2T on its side using the handle to hold it in position as a floor monitor hooked up via the L6 LINK. I was absolutely loving the sound but I soon found out that the L2T had automatically selected floor monitor mode rather than pa reference mode. I switched it to pa reference mode and found that all my patches now sounded like dung.

 

Ive spent several hours tweaking and now have several patches sounding better, but they still dont seem to me to sound as good as they did in floor monitor mode.

 

I am also finding that sometimes the L2T will select PA Reference mode when turned on, but sometimes it selects Floor Monitor mode. I am not sure what is triggering this behavior.

 

I want to hear what is being sent to FOH via the XLR outs, and eventually will add an L2M for stereo via L6 LINK. Just thought I would start a topic and see if any of you fellow L2T users had suggestions, ideas, comments or even patches on how best to tweak the Helix for PA Reference mode. I am not sure why the patches sound so much better to me in Floor Monitor mode.

 

Thanks all!

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Addendum... After reading the section from the pilots handbook on the modes, maybe Floor Monitor mode is fine to use as it just eliminates some of the low boominess that occurs due to the position of the speaker on the floor... Why is it suggested that you use PA Ref mode when using a modeling amp?

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In floor monitor mode, the L2T was cutting low frequencies. In PA reference mode it doesn't do that. Why?

 

As compared to a vertical orientation (free-space), placing the speaker on the floor horizontally (half-space) boosts lower frequencies. The frequency response graph in the L2t specifications document shows this clearly.

 

The L2 quick start guide (or pilot's guide) document says that the floor monitor mode has "a slight reduction in low frequency content to counteract coupling when placing the speaker on the floor". This is a good thing!

 

If you liked the sound better with the L2T horizontally on the floor in floor monitor mode, then leave it like that. That's what floor monitor mode is meant for.

 

If you want to have the L2T in PA reference mode, then stand it up vertically.

 

If you want to put the L2T horizontally on the floor and you want to set it to PA reference mode, then use the L2T EQ or the Helix global EQ to cut the lower frequencies. But if you're going to do that, you'd be better off leaving the L2T in floor monitor mode.

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I was under the impression that Global EQ does not affect the digital outputs including L6 LINK. This was stated in the manual. Further testing on my part proved this as any change to global EQ did not change the sound via L6 Link. I think the obvious choice is to use the L2 T in floor monitor mode... I will need to see if that is an accurate representation of what is being sent to FOH.

 

ThNks for the input!

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If I am correct, if you leave the L2T horizontally with PA mode, there is no low cut.

The only way you have low cut is monitor mode with horizontal position

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Yes, that seems to be the case. As i will be using this as a floor monitor, guess having the low cut is a good thing. I am also assuming that this will still be an accurate representation of what is being sent to FOH as the lows will be in the send from the main XLR outs on the Helix.

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In floor monitor mode, the L2T was cutting low frequencies. In PA reference mode it doesn't do that. Why?

 

 

 

This kind of makes sense to me from a traditional PA standpoint. You cut the low frequencies in the floor monitor mode to cut down on mud and make the highs cut through and hence make it easier for the vocalists to hear themselves. In PA reference mode you want it to be as full range as possible to handle everything a band might throw at it from the lows of a bass or a kick drum all the way up to guitars, sax, flute, etc.. As pointed out though you can set it for whatever sounds best to you.

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I use my L3t speakers in PA/Reference mode with the speakers mounted on stands so that they are around head-height. This removes the speaker/floor coupling for which Monitor mode compensates. Also in Monitor mode the speakers are tilted up towards your head for better listening.

 

A speaker sitting vertically on the floor in PA / Reference mode causes two problems: the excessive low end from floor coupling as well as not being pointed at the listener's head.

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I use my L3t speakers in PA/Reference mode with the speakers mounted on stands so that they are around head-height. This removes the speaker/floor coupling for which Monitor mode compensates. Also in Monitor mode the speakers are tilted up towards your head for better listening.

A speaker sitting vertically on the floor in PA / Reference mode causes two problems: the excessive low end from floor coupling as well as not being pointed at the listener's head.

This would be ideal, however in my circumstance i need to use the L2T as a floor monitor. Thanks for all the input!

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This kind of makes sense to me from a traditional PA standpoint. You cut the low frequencies in the floor monitor mode to cut down on mud and make the highs cut through and hence make it easier for the vocalists to hear themselves. In PA reference mode you want it to be as full range as possible to handle everything a band might throw at it from the lows of a bass or a kick drum all the way up to guitars, sax, flute, etc

 

.. As pointed out though you can set it for whatever sounds best to you.

My only issue here is that I want FOH to get exactly what I am hearing from the L2T so that my guitar sound is being translated to the house accurately. I guess that the reduced bass frequncies in floor monitor mode will not affect that as it will still sound very close to what the PA speakers at FOH are reproducing. FOH will get the missing lower frequencies and stage will get them as well due to the monitor position close to the floor.

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I still am disappointed that i cant set the Global EQ to affect the L6 Link digital output. It might be very helpful in certain stage situations to be able to easily EQ the entire unit instead of ona patch per patch basis.

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I use my L3t speakers in PA/Reference mode with the speakers mounted on stands so that they are around head-height. This removes the speaker/floor coupling for which Monitor mode compensates. Also in Monitor mode the speakers are tilted up towards your head for better listening.

A speaker sitting vertically on the floor in PA / Reference mode causes two problems: the excessive low end from floor coupling as well as not being pointed at the listener's head.

Makes sense- thanks!

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Sorry if I am stating the obvious here, not sure whether this was clear, particularly to someone who does not yet own an L3t, but the L3t auto senses whether it is upright or horizontal and automatically sets the mode to either reference or monitor accordingly. The L3t speaker can even sense whether it is upright on the floor or pole mounted and will adjust its sound accordingly. However, if you prefer another mode (reference, monitor, electric, acoustic, etc.) you can change this by pressing the "Speaker Mode" button on the back of the L3t, regardless of the speakers spatial orientation.

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Sorry if I am stating the obvious here, not sure whether this was clear, particularly to someone who does not yet own an L3t, but the L3t auto senses whether it is upright or horizontal and automatically sets the mode to either reference or monitor accordingly. The L3t speaker can even sense whether it is upright on the floor or pole mounted and will adjust its sound accordingly. However, if you prefer another mode (reference, monitor, guitar, acoustic, etc.) you can change this by pressing the "Speaker Mode" button on the back of the L3t, regardless of the speakers spatial orientation.

This is absolutely right and the "sensing" thing is an accelerometer like in your phone that tells the device that you have turned it to another position. 

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The L2T does the same thing, my confusion came from the fact the I have read more than once on this forum that you should still select Reference/PA mode even when using the L2T as a floor monitor. This requires checking each time I turn it on, which is really not convenient. I have however, based on more research, decided that it should be fine to use Floor Monitor mode and that should accurately represent what is being sent to FOH.

 

It was taking a great deal of time for me to reset my patches so that they would sound good in Reference/PA mode when the speaker was sitting on its side on the floor. This was aggravated by the fact that I could not simply adjust the global EQ to account for the added muddiness of the bass due to the fact that Global EQ does not affect the L6 LINK output.

 

Maybe the confusion had more to do with using Guitar mode on the L2T versus Reference/PA mode? I dont see why anyone would suggest setting the speaker to Reference/PA mode when Floor Monitor mode simply accounts for the added bass frequencies when having the speaker on the floor on its side.

 

In any case, I am going to let the L2T pick the proper mode based on speaker position.

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Hey all, looking for input from other L2 and Helix users. I recently purchased an L2T and was working through many of the patches on the Helix. I had the L2T on its side using the handle to hold it in position as a floor monitor...

Just as an FYI, the L2T has 2 retractable "legs" for use as a floor monitor. No need to prop it up with the handle...it's probably not as stable that way.

 

It was taking a great deal of time for me to reset myIt was taking a great deal of time for me to reset my patches so that they would sound good in Reference/PA mode when the speaker was sitting on its side on the floor. This was aggravated by the fact that I could not simply adjust the global EQ...

Agreed. I abandoned the L6 Link for that reason. If you're running mono with just one L2T, there's no real "need" for it anyway. Just use the 1/4", set the speaker mode manually if you don't want "floor monitor mode", then you've got the global EQ if you need it.

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The handle is built to hold the monitor at a 30° angle while the retractable legs hold it at a 60° angle.

Fair enough. I'm tall, so it never occurred to me to try the handle. 30° would just deafen my knees. ;)

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The only way to hear an accurate representation of signal to FOH, regardless of speaker position/orientation, is if the speaker is in PA/Reference mode.  All stages are different with different effects on sound quality where-as the speaker compensation is kind of a one trick pony.  Might come in handy some day, but so far has not for me.  But how could one expect a direct signal to FOH to sound the same as a monitor signal that's been post processed?  PA/Reference is for exactly that.  Horizontal/guitar mode is for if you simply want to use your speaker like you would any amplifier (which in this case would be impossible to mic with only one microphone).  When I first got my Stagesource speakers, I too thought guitar mode sounded much better.  But as I became more familiar with the setup,  That soon changed.  But when all is said and done, if a particular setting sounds better to you and you play better because of it, then do it - and let the sound man handle his end.


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If you want to test your sound with the L2T set to PA/Reference mode, then make sure the L2T is on a pole at head height and not on the floor.

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As a guitar player using the L2's more and more as FRFR for electric guitar I DO NOT like them vertical.  You really need to be careful about the horn's position relative to your ears.  Maybe if they're on stands you can get them high enough to get a lot of the 10" speaker to your ear, but if not, you will get way to much high end.  I use them in PA/Ref mode sideways (horizontal) all the time and like it better that way.  Plus it looks a little more natural on stage that way.

 

Vertical on the floor sounds awful BTW.

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As a guitar player using the L2's more and more as FRFR for electric guitar I DO NOT like them vertical. You really need to be careful about the horn's position relative to your ears. Maybe if they're on stands you can get them high enough to get a lot of the 10" speaker to your ear, but if not, you will get way to much high end. I use them in PA/Ref mode sideways (horizontal) all the time and like it better that way. Plus it looks a little more natural on stage that way.

 

Vertical on the floor sounds awful BTW.

Did you need to do a lot of adjustment to your patches as well as the factory patches to get them to sound good using the L2 as a floor monitor in Reference/PA mode? The manual says that the only difference in Floor Monitor mode is that they have removed some of the bass frequencies that are present when the speaker is so close to the floor. I have found that the L2T is much better horizontally on the floor in floor monitor mode!

 

Again thanks for all the input!

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Fair enough. I'm tall, so it never occurred to me to try the handle. 30° would just deafen my knees. ;)

Heh, I get that. Right now I am just working on patches and configuration sitting down in my office with The L2T on a raised platform about 6 inches up. Pretty much pointed right at my head. On Stage I'm sure I'll use the little feet to hold the speaker at the 60° angle. Line 6 went above and beyond designwise with the 30° and 60° angles being taken into consideration. Really loving helix into the L2T.

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Heh, I get that. Right now I am just working on patches and configuration sitting down in my office with The L2T on a raised platform about 6 inches up. Pretty much pointed right at my head. On Stage I'm sure I'll use the little feet to hold the speaker at the 60° angle. Line 6 went above and beyond designwise with the 30° and 60° angles being taken into consideration. Really loving helix into the L2T.

Hey, either way the thing is awesome. Smallest and best sounding rig I've ever had. I do sometimes miss the "guitar amp look" of a half stack behind me, but then I'll bend over to pick something up, and I remember that my back isn't 25 years old anymore. No regrets, and I ain't going back, lol.

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Did you need to do a lot of adjustment to your patches as well as the factory patches to get them to sound good using the L2 as a floor monitor in Reference/PA mode? The manual says that the only difference in Floor Monitor mode is that they have removed some of the bass frequencies that are present when the speaker is so close to the floor. I have found that the L2T is much better horizontally on the floor in floor monitor mode!

 

Again thanks for all the input!

I did a side by side comparison of the speakers in different configurations and compared with a QSCK12 before I really started tweaking so I couldn't really tell you. I really liked the QSC BTW but I only have one of them and we're typically using it as the drum monitor.  The L2's are good speakers, but the K12's bigger speaker and more power are better suited to the drummers monitor.

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Hi guys im looking to complete my dream rig with the Lt speakers. I use a Jtv 59 into a pod hd 500x and would like to add a l2t to complete my rig.

 

My question : would an L2m suffice ?and what is the difference between them and the L3t , L3m

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Yes L2m is all you need

 

L2t adds a Mixer panel with two channels including an Acoustic model (don't need this with JTV) and feedback suppression.  

 

L3m adds a second 10" speaker dedicated to lower frequencies (< 240Hz?) and an additional amplifier for it (total 1.4KW).  This gives more power/volume as the lows and mids are now bi-amped into different speakers.  This is mainly of use as powerful PA speakers as the L2m is more than loud enough to damage your hearing when close up.

 

L3t adds the Mixer panel to the L3m

 

http://uk.line6.com/speakers/

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First I used L3m as monitor lying in front of me, but that seemed too big for smal stages and the singer standing next to me heard too much of the high frequencies. I use them now standing behind me to replace an amp (in case we play without FOH), and it makes a powerful sound, works great.

 

I use L2m for monitoring and editing at home. I use the Line6 Link to get rid of the anoying noise coming from the usb port when a Laptop is connected. As there is NO global EQ with Line6 Link, it can sound a bit harsh - depending on the room acoustic. In this case it's very handy to have the the "m" version, so I can use a normal input and can adjust the sound with the mixer panel without touching the Helix presets (which I have "prepared" for the L3m Pa/refernece use) + I still have one input for incoming monitoring of the band (which can be adjusted too, without the help from the FOH). Very flexible and easy to adjust to any room (feedback surpression for backing vocals on monitor can save the gig ...)

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