Tweak patches via headphones or powered speaker

[Indianrock2020]

Adjusting patches over the PA isn't practical so at home I've been using my powered speaker but given the acoustics at home wondering if headphones would be better?

[AlexKenivel]

Powered speakers over headphones for me

[DunedinDragon]

I've tried it with headphones, but my headphones weren't really "flat" in terms of response.  They tended to accentate lows and deaccentuate some of the highs.  This resulted in me having to adjust things once I got to the rehearsal space.  So now I only use what I'm going to play through which is my powered monitor and I rarely have to make adjustments once I get to rehearsal.

 

But to be honest, I don't know if it's really due to using the monitor, or simply just improvement in my skills for dialing things in.

[mcbeddall]

Headphones will pronounce different frequencies even just due to the fact that they're attached to your head

If headphones are a must then good quality open backed studio monitor headphones will help reduce your tweaking time later but as always you'll get closer using gear as close as possible to what you use at gigs.

[pianoguyy]

I do it on headphones. I do it on $20 Wal-Mart computer speakers. I do it through speakers. 

The final tweaks need to occur at the performance center. But basics can be done anywhere, 

[cruisinon2]

Adjusting patches over the PA isn't practical so at home I've been using my powered speaker but given the acoustics at home wondering if headphones would be better?

It depends a lot on the headphones in question. Some have a flatter response than others. But, unless you're cranking that powered speaker to stage volume, it probably won't matter much anyway. A powered speaker at comfy bedroom volume isn't likely to match your cranked stage tone any more than headphones will.

[Indianrock2020]

The powered speaker is only used at home.  At church it's POD direct to mixer/PA   I always thought using the full range speaker would be closer to a PA, as far as editing patches, but yes in a bedroom I can't crank it and the room size is so different.  I donated my headphones to the church sound team, but could get another pair   (  Sennheiser HD 280 Pro Headphones   Frequency response  8 - 25,000 Hz )

 

I'm dubious about having the powered speaker close to me and pointed at me in terms of hearing little things that the crowd listening to the PA wouldn't notice.   Editing at church woud be a pain since I'd need to get to rehearsal an hour early and take my laptop ( I don't use the POD onboard controls much )

Alto Professional TS112A 12-Inch Active 2-Way PA Loudspeaker

[silverhead]

.... Editing at church woud be a pain since I'd need to get to rehearsal an hour early and take my laptop ( I don't use the POD onboard controls much )

...

Understood. And yet, unavoidably, that's what needs to be done if you want to hear exactly what your audience will hear and do the final tweaking accordingly. As has already been described you can use either headphones or speakers at bedroom level to get something close but neither will be exactly what your audience hears in the church.

[Indianrock2020]

Yes and I could certainly do it occasionally just to get an idea of how far off my home-editing may be.  Of course I won't have 300 people there singing at that time.     For a while I aimed the power speaker away from me towards a wall, but it seemed either muffled or "bassy."  And lately I've been turning bass way down on most patches.  But since you usually want something with more mids and highs in a band mix anyway, that might not be a bad way to do it ( speaker aimed away at wall )

[mcbeddall]

I'm in a similar situation to yourself in that I don't get a lot of tweaking time at gig levels but a few things that have helped me are;

A good quality pair of studio headphones , open backed if noise leaking isn't a problem, this gives you a bigger sound stage and therefore is a little more speaker like

If I make a patch on headphones I'll put a "H" in the name so I know it's likely to need tweaking for live use and it won't be a nasty surprise when I need it

I'll then take that patch and make 2 versions, one with a brighter eq and another with darker eq , at rehearsal I can try all 3 in seconds and see which is closest to the sound I want, over time you will learn which way you need to lean with the eq when your creating your patches

 

I also put a notepad in my guitar case and make notes between songs like " patch 2b needs to be louder but less harsh"

It helps to keep a tab on where I'm at with building the patches and week by week they get closer and closer to ideal

[DunedinDragon]

I know I'm in a bit different situation as I go direct to the PA but I also have my powered monitor on stage direct out from the 1/4" POD output, but I have had the PA speakers turned toward me on the stage when I've gone through my setups (they're QSC KLA-12's pole-mounted) and I'm getting pretty much the same thing as is coming out of my speaker.

 

I have gone through a lot to get my powered monitor to be consistent with the front of house speakers including adjustments in the global EQ for lows and highs.  But I still only use my Yamaha DXR-12 at home for setting up my patches.  In my case I have the speaker vertically mounted at home on a bar that's about 4 feet high about 5 feet away.  When I get to rehearsal my monitor is situated behind me on the floor as it is in the worship performance, and I only ever have to make small minor adjustments sometimes due to the difference between having my home monitor which is set for PA and the rehearsal/performance speaker which is set for MONITOR (which eliminates some of the bass build-up).  By the time I get to the performance I very rarely have to tweak anything.  I was having to adjust some of the output levels, but ever since I started using a sound meter to normalize my patch volumes I don't even have to do that.

 

I know my tone on stage is consistent with the fronts because several of the singers as well as the other guitarist will go out into the audience area during rehearsal at church and they tell me my tone is the same out front as it is on stage.

 

Which brings me to the real question I have for you.  If you're going solely through the PA, how are you monitoring your guitar on-stage?  If it's through standard floor monitors or in-ear monitors could the be accounting for the difference you're hearing in your tone?  It appears you have powered speakers that should be consistent with a decent front of house system, but maybe I'm making a wrong assumption.  What does your front of house system consist of?

 

EDIT:  One other thought I had.  Early on I realized using a wireless guitar connection was dramatically changing the output of the guitar, so I only use wired connections both at home and in performance.  Is it possible you are setting up your tones on a wired connection and using wireless on stage and that's accounting for some differences?

[jeremybnz]

I do mine with headphones at home because the kids are usually asleep when I have time to play with my rig, but it all gets tweaked at band practice thru my L2T to perfect it :)

[Indianrock2020]

Thanks all.   I don't think I'm having major issues with patches and tone, but always trying to improve, thus the question.  Most of the time I can crank things up fairly well at home ( kids are grown ) so I think as long as I point the speaker away from me, I'll probably do that rather than buy another pair of headphones.   Tweaking while playing an mp3 of one of our songs might also be better than just listening to the guitar alone.

We're on IEM at church, no amps or powered speakers at all.  And I don't use wireless anywhere.  The front of house system has six speakers suspended from a high ceiling but you really can't hear that well at all from stage, even with ear buds out.  It's a little dicey walking out in the room with a long cable during rehearsal as the worship leader and sound guy could take it the wrong way.  

 

Sometimes I'll ask people how it sounded but basically that is out of my hands.  I do know that in a band mix I want to have more mids/treble that I would like at home.  We're also working on arrangements so that  with two electric and one acoustic guitar we are getting some separation.   I also reserve a little gain in my volume pedal to put into play after rehearsal. Not ideal but the other sound guys are just on autopilot much of the time.   

 

Our biggest hurdle is getting the drums under control so we aren't putting out a big muddy, low midrange wad of sound.  Making slow progress on that.

 

A friend just bought a 500x with no model packs so I threw two patches together for him this morning.  Not polished yet but they follow my basic pattern.  I've been doing all dual amp/dual cab patches lately but not 100% sure how much that is getting me.

One is called Plexi100Normal and the other patch is called VoxAndSolo100Crunch

 

http://line6.com/customtone/profile/Indianrock2020

 

[DunedinDragon]

As long as you're comfortable and confident with your setup that's all that really matters.

 

I personally have a problem with IEM's or any situation that provides a mix to the band that's different than the mix going out front.  I can't count the times that what sounded great on the stage mix sounded completely different in the audience.  Especially in worship situations where they tend to bury the guitars (and most of the other instruments) and overaccentuate keyboards and vocals.  But that's what you get typically with volunteer sound people.

 

Good luck with the drums...that's why we use a high end electronic kit.  It's so simple with that and so incredibly complex with an acoustic kit.