Trying to get a good tone without cabinets simulator

[pininon]

Hi guys;

 

After all the phenomenon Elixir has produced since it was released I decide to bet on it!! I was lucky to get one the GC. I'been playing for the last 20 year of my life, mostly in stages doing covers always using tubes amplifiers until now.

 

So far I have struggle to get a good tone at home' studio and in the rehearsal. Today I'm using the Helix trough the return of my valve amp (so there`s no gain or distortion there), and no cabinets selected in the mix, only using the real cabinets of my rig (4x12 Celestial Greenbacks). I feel the sound is way to crunchy and compressed, and considering that I'm only using volume, distortion and amp + delay, on my Helix line, but still no feeling good with the tone?

 

when I used amp+cabinets in the Helix, the tone gets more real..but there is a lack of presence in the tone to play live.

 

Can somebody help me..?? or share your experience..??

[cruisinon2]

You're difficulties are very common when making the move to modeling. I was never been able to get a decent tone without the cabinet modeling either. And while it might seem redundant to run a cab sim through a power amp and cabinet, it absolutely can be done with good results.

 

There's no quick fix though. You'll need to spend lots of time...hours, days...experimenting with what combination of amp/cab/mic models will work best with your rig. It won't necessity be an "obvious" combo. And unfortunately, other's experiences won't help you much (and might just send you down one blind alley after another), as every rig is different.

 

What you might want to consider is going with an FRFR speaker instead of your amp. They're smaller, lighter, and they really allow you to take full advantage of units like Helix.

[RRMark]

Perhaps you are sending too much signal from the helix to the power amp return, from your description of 'too crunchy and compressed' it sounds like you are overloading it. Does turning down the master volume on the helix improve things. Some returns are -10dB, some +4dB.

If you give model numbers maybe someone with the same gear can advise. Works very well with my Orange amp, though I am now frfr.

[jarmst72]

I'm new to the Helix(which I'm totally in love with BTW) and haven't tried this yet because I have a FRFR I'm using, but might it be better to run one of the preamp models instead of a full amp model when running into the power amp section of a tube amp?

[RRMark]

I'm new to the Helix(which I'm totally in love with BTW) and haven't tried this yet because I have a FRFR I'm using, but might it be better to run one of the preamp models instead of a full amp model when running into the power amp section of a tube amp?

I did try preamp only first, but the full amps without cab have a lot more character. Otherwise the gain on the Mandarin model is severely reduced and the Divided Duo has almost no volume and other preamps widely up and down. Full amp doesn't on average boost the signal any more I feel.

[radatats]

I did try preamp only first, but the full amps without cab have a lot more character. Otherwise the gain on the Mandarin model is severely reduced and the Divided Duo has almost no volume and other preamps widely up and down. Full amp doesn't on average boost the signal any more I feel.

 

Try going into Global Settings and changing the 1/4 outs to Instrument level from Line level and see if that helps.  You should be able to turn the Helix master up more without overdriving the power section of your amp.

 

I using cab modeling I definitely found you need to boost the cab level 3-6db to get a comparable sound to when you don't use them.

[spikey]

 I was never been able to get a decent tone without the cabinet modeling either. 

 

 

I do this without CAB IR on my Kemper (using a power amp and 1960a) and it sounds fantastic, but I just never could use an amp and cab setup with my Axe FX II. It just didn't sound right to me without using a FRFR powered kinda cab and IR's...