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Using IR to make small cab sound like a big cab? Or just alternate :)

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I came up with an idea I haven't tried yet.

 

I once miced an 8" cab with lots of time and then tried to create an EQ match as close as possible to a reference which was a major rock band's album sound. Ofcourse I didn't get it identical but the EQ was great for home recording.

 

Now, how could I create an EQ-curve to make that cab sound LIVE as big as possible? I could create an eq and load it as an IR to helix and then run that signal to my tube power-amp to drive the 8" cab. With my current setup I could record from helix to my DAW the dry signal of the guitar, the tube amp's preamp out signal, the tube amp's full signal through a weber load box with and without helix IR/cabsim and then ofcourse any live room mic's through my mixer. I've got a 57 and 906e and some cheap large diagraph condenser.

 

Any suggestions?

I've got Logic Pro X for software.
I haven't made any IRs or EQ-matches before.

 

Maybe catching the poweramp's line-out dry and with a chosen cabsim from helix, then find and EQ for the line-out signal which would be close to the cabsim? Then "subtract" somehow from that signal a close miced 57-sound..? ehhhhh.... sounds complicated, right? :D

 

If I will manage to create a decent IR somehow like this, with your help, I will ofcourse share the IR with you or any recipe to create your own :)

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I've had great success using the Coles ribbon mic model on the Fender Champ cab. Wish I could remember the number of the Coles mic though. 40...something...

Anyway, that particular mic model has a ton of low end.

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I'd use dual cabs in Helix first. You can get a very big sound that way.

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What you'd need to do is get an impulse response of the 8" speaker, and the speaker you want it to sound like using exactly the same sweep at the same time with the same mic in the same position. Then you'd have do do some processing to "subtract" the 8" impulse from the larger speaker impulse so that you only have the difference. Then whey you play through the 8" speaker and that modified IR, you'd be putting back the difference in the tone required to make it sound like the larger speaker. This is essentially the same thing you did with the post EQ, but it gets the change in EQ over time using an impulse response rather that simple static EQ.

 

But the 8" speaker won't move the same amount of air and it will likely never sound the same as a big speaker. And since you're going through an IR anyway, why not just use one for the desired speaker and ditch the 8"?

 

What's interesting about this approach however is that it is how you could make one instrument sound like another. For example using an acoustic guitar body image minus the image of an electric guitar pickup to make an electric guitar sound like an acoustic.

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Ofcourse it is not the same (air moved) and it'd be foolish trying to mimic the 8" to be like a 4x12" when I could just use a 4x12" IR with the direct signal in te first place. The goal here is to make one thing sound different, in a way like another... I've already had pleasant results making my acoustic guitar's piezo sounding almost like a miced acoustic through an IR.

 

Still, this is FUN stuff to fool around :) who knows if we'd com up with something spectacular? :D

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Just found it. Coles 4038.

 

More info on this please? 

Is it a mic IR only or what? Where could I find it?

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I'd use dual cabs in Helix first. You can get a very big sound that way.

 

Tried that. 

Guitar -> helix 4cm /amp -> cabs/dualcabs/IR-cabs/mixes -> that live cab I'm trying to make richer

 

didn't enjoy much. The sound got too muddy/dark.

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didn't enjoy much. The sound got too muddy/dark.

 

Funny. I find most of the cab sims way too bright and buzzy.

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Funny. I find most of the cab sims way too bright and buzzy.

 

Both are often very fixable with tweaks of the HP and LP filters, and changing the input impedance.

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Both are often very fixable with tweaks of the HP and LP filters, and changing the input impedance.

Oh I know. Thankfully, the Helix's filters are very capable.  Everybody does indeed hear things differently because I find that even the ribbon mics have plenty of clarity.

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Oh I know. Thankfully, the Helix's filters are very capable.  Everybody does indeed hear things differently because I find that even the ribbon mics have plenty of clarity.

 

Yup, I've switched to using them almost exclusively. LOVE them.

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Yup, I've switched to using them almost exclusively. LOVE them.

Me too!

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More info on this please? 

Is it a mic IR only or what? Where could I find it?

It's one of the parameters of every Cab Sim - usually on the second page. I think it's just called "Rib 4038"

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I like the ribbon mics too, mabe because I play a Strat most of the time and ribbon mics tame the high end just right.

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Funny. I find most of the cab sims way too bright and buzzy.

 

...running to a live guitar cab through a real amp? That is like having a miced cab running to a live cab, having two cabs in series for signal, not the load.

 

If you're running the helix as standalone to headphones/monitors, try setting two IR/cab-blocks in series - this is quite similar to it what I'm talking about. My quest is to create an IR which I'm going to run to the following cab, making the latter sound different.

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