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Helix Vs. AX8

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Had a fun time comparing a buddy of mine's AX8 today to my Helix! We've each only had our respective units for a very short amount of time so there are things about each we're still learning. However I've been a LONG TIME Line 6 user and he's been an Axe FX user for several years. So not completely new territory. 

Spoiler alert: If you can't get a good tone out of either one of these units, it's your fault. Plain and simple. It's not that your ears are that discerning, you just don't know what you're doing. Sorry, maybe guitar playing isn't your calling. 

With that out of the way let me move on. 

The signal path was Crate Powerblock into Friedman 2x12 with one Vintage 30 and one Creamback. It produced about as much "amp in the room" sound as you could ask for. All tones done on each unit were amp only with no speaker modelling. 

As a side note, also in the room was a Friedman Dirty Shirley with matching 1x12 cabinet, so there was a high end tube amp there for reference. 

Admittedly I felt like bringing a Line 6 product into a room with a Fractal product for a comparission put me as the underdog. From everything I've read online the Helix has the competition beat on features, but what about pure amp tone?

I'm here to say that the Helix held it's own and then some. At no point did I feel like the Helix was a step behind the AX8. Just dialed up an amp and it sounded amazing right out of the gate. Something Line 6 has MASSIVELY struggled with in the past. I've owned literally every incarnation of Line 6's product line and this is the first time they've produced a product that doesn't demand a ton of tweaking to find the magic sweet spot. 

This opinion was echoed by my friend who is a long time Fractal user. So not just my opinion in a vacuum. 

As a Helix user I feel compelled to point out the positives of it in this comparison, so that's exactly what I'm going to do. Not to take anything away from the AX8, but this is where I'm coming from. I'll leave room for AX8 users, or my friend with the AX8, to chime in here. 

Here are the pluses for Helix:

The UI: on the Helix it is far and away more advanced than on the AX8. I'm speaking in terms of the on unit UI and not the PC editor. The Helix Editor isn't out yet so no way to compare that. But for using each unit stand alone the Helix UI is hands down the winner. Everything is faster, easier, and more intuative. Assigning pedals and controllers, using pedal edit mode, etc. Not a knock on the AX8, just showing how much design effort went into the Helix UI. 

Flexibility and routing: Again, this is another area that Helix shines. If you can dream it up, you can route it in Helix. And do so very easily thanks to a very intuative UI. Want a signal path with 4 drives, 6 delays, and 3 reverbs? No problem with Helix. Plus the 4 physical send/receives give you loads of flexibility to incorporating outboard gear. Need to route your dry guitar signal one place, your wet guitar signal another, and the looper another? No problem. 

Ease of creating tones: I was surprised that my vote for this would go to Helix. As a long time Line 6 user I'm used to spending hours dialing in the perfect tone. With Helix things just work. We found that amps, and especially effects, were very quick on the Helix. Everything was more or less in place and ready to go. You just had to add it to the signal chain and make adjustments to suit your taste. 

Ease of use: When using this as a live unit I have to give the nod to Helix here. The scribble strips, with customize-able text, were gold. I know exactly what function each pedal is performing. Something that was a challenge on the HD500(X). Along with the very large color screen showing exactly what's going on it's a breeze to use this thing live. The AX8 takes a more basic approach, and is very workable, but not on the same level as Helix. 

Built in expression pedal: Having a built in expression pedal, with a toe switch, is a big deal. At least to me. With an external pedal I'm left to choose one function of the expression pedal instead of two. 

Overall tone: I felt like this could go either way. On this day I think our Helix presets were pretty rockin', but either unit can be tailored to do EXACTLY what you want. They both sound awesome. I can say with all honesty though that the Helix didn't give up an inch tone wise. Which surprised the both of us. 

BTW, the Friedman Dirty Shirley model on the AX8 was spot on and we both felt like bringing the "real" dirty shirley into the equation was pointless. The AX8 simply sounded as good or better than the real deal. Sorry tube snobs, but facts are facts clear.png

Pluses for the AX8:

It did sound really good! There's no denying that, nor any reason to. It's an awesome unit. 

Amp models: In terms of sheer number of amp models there isn't a contest between these two units. The AX8 far outpaces the Helix by a mile. However the question is how many amp models do you need? Maybe I'm playing devil's advocate here, but I don't find that I have trouble covering all the ground I need with Helix's selection. Totally a matter of opinion though. Much respect for the sheer amount of work Cliff has put into modelling this number of amps. If the amount of amp models is most important to you then there is no comparison. 

Form factor: This could go either way. Overall I'll take the Helix because of the built in expression pedal and increased number of ins/outs. But I do like the compactness of the AX8. The Helix is big and heavy. 

I'm a Helix owner so obviously you can tell that I am going to lean towards the Helix. Having said that I can say with COMPLETE honesty that the Helix really shined today when comparing the two. All things being equal I take the Helix all day long and don't regret the purchase for a minute. My buddy was even joking about buying one once he sold off some of his other gear clear.png

Most importantly though is that fact that there are two INCREDIBLE units on the market for, given what they do, not a lot of money. It is an amazing time to be a guitar player. I've been playing way long enough to remember when it wasn't so. I remember playing through a Crate solid state amp.....wow how times have changed!!

So as a community let's be thankful for the tools at our disposal. We live in a great time to be a musician and let's truly appreciate these miracle boxes that can be had for less than the cost of a Marshall half stack "back in the day". Or this day for that matter. 

Cheers!

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Thanks for the comparisons and write up!

 

 

+1

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Thanks for the great comparison. I appreciate your efforts to be as objective and unbiased as possible, giving credit where due to both excellent devices. Yes indeed, a great time to be a guitarist.

 

I was reminded of that recently with the passing of George Martin, the 5th Beatle. We now have unimaginably more audio production power and capability in our basements and bedrooms than The Beatles ever had in Abbey Road studios. But there's no substitute for genius and massive sonic creativity.

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It would be interesting to pick a couple of effects to compare too, those can sometimes have more complex algorithms. But possibly the biggest difference might be in the speaker models. The biggest variables in tone for electric guitar are the end points, the things that touch the air. Speaker, mic and position models make a huge difference in the tone. I wonder how Helix and AX8 compare in this important area.

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Nice write ups here! I wonder if that main difference is the irs? (I'll save my comments on the IRS for another thread).

I would say the capture of the ir would be a huge variable.

 

Secondly, I understand modeling trying to be as accurate and true to the real amp as possible. Line 6 even has said if the real amp sounds and feels like crap in a certain setting with a particular guitar, it will sound like crap in the Helix. Is it possible AX8 adds a little bit of this own magic to make amps sound and feel "better" forgoing true accuracy?, emulating the "amp in the room" feel? The only real way to compare the units would be have a real twin with mic vs helix "twin" vs ax "twin" with said mic and hear which two sound most alike.

 

But all this aside, the real player in a real room playing to a real audience s' opinion is what truly matters. As Rlblues experienced the AX may win here.

 

I wonder if line 6 can make some "live" irs that may not be perfectly accurate but sound and feel better? I.e. ir's for recording, perfectly emulating ABC cab, and live ir's for ABC cab in the room.

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I wonder if line 6 can make some "live" irs that may not be perfectly accurate but sound and feel better? I.e. ir's for recording, perfectly emulating ABC cab, and live ir's for ABC cab in the room.

 

They might, or they might just leave that to the third parties.

 

You can put LP and HP filters on and really suck the life out of any of those cabs (or IRs), but I don't.

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The AX8 cost $1500 also?

 

I did get to hear an axe fx (older one) and it was ok.............but not magic. Was 3 maybe 4 years back so I just have a memory of it in the back of my mind. my helix sounds better to me than it did.

 

I'll stay on board this helix train until the day line 6 charges us for Amp packs.

 

I've tried a lot of multi fx boards and this one is my favorite so far. Stupid easy to use. The Mesa dual rec sounds and acts like my real amp.

 

My only want now is a few more of my favorite amps.

 

I got my helix 10/14/15 and in that time other than bug fixes I've had two real updates? Two pedals in 1st then more pedals and one amp in 2nd.

 

Line 6...... I really hope that your not saving up amps to sale in amp packs. That will be the day I get a new ax8. I bet lots of other people will do the same.

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AX8 is a real buy imho. It wouldn't work for me because I need at least 2 signal paths almost all the time, but for those who must have those sounds, it's a killer deal.

Fact is, AX8 and Helix compete, but they are SO different that for many there's a clear choice. Need all those amps? AX8. Need loops for pedals (more than one), Helix. Comfy with Fractal's editing and like their computer editor (which is SWEET!). AX8. Clearly. Must be able to have multiple paths and planning on editing on the unit? Helix.

Tone? Your audience can't tell the difference I promise you. So pick the one that inspires YOU!

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The AX8 cost $1500 also?

 

I did get to hear an axe fx (older one) and it was ok.............but not magic. Was 3 maybe 4 years back so I just have a memory of it in the back of my mind. my helix sounds better to me than it did.

 

I'll stay on board this helix train until the day line 6 charges us for Amp packs.

 

I've tried a lot of multi fx boards and this one is my favorite so far. Stupid easy to use. The Mesa dual rec sounds and acts like my real amp.

 

My only want now is a few more of my favorite amps.

 

I got my helix 10/14/15 and in that time other than bug fixes I've had two real updates? Two pedals in 1st then more pedals and one amp in 2nd.

 

Line 6...... I really hope that your not saving up amps to sale in amp packs. That will be the day I get a new ax8. I bet lots of other people will do the same.

 

According to posts on here, Line6 is concentrating most of its efforts right now on the new editor, probably because most are bitching about the lack of an editor.  After that's out they have said we can expect any number of additions to the Helix including amps, cabs, effects, features, etc.  In all fairness, Fractal has been out for years with their engine and the Helix has been out 6 months, wish everyone would put some perspective to what can and cannot be produced in 6 months.  Line6 is going to upgrade the Helix long term, they've got a real winner on their hands and they'd be foolish not to.  I agree with most of the items posted above, but for the Helix to be this close to the Fractal product this young in its lifecycle speaks volumes....

 

I too wish they had left the foot controller off the floorboard and slimmed the unit up a bit, but that's just being nit picky....they may have needed the width though to handle all the I/O ports so the foot controller is kind of bonus for those that want it....

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My nephews have both units, evidently paying off college loans is not a high priority. They are both very accomplished at this point in their lives, they both have very good bands, produce digital music for Bandcamp and teach. They have a rehearsal studio that they rent that is connected to several rehearsal spaces as well as a very large room that the bands can "sign out" for a set amount of time to calibrate their live rigs. Every once in a while they have get togethers there where they demo equipment, have endless jam sessions and small reunion meets with local players that were quite popular around the circuit many years ago.

 

Back in February they organized a get together on a Saturday afternoon to demo the AX8 and the Helix, they had the rigs setup and connected to Xiotone cabs. No 3rd party IR's were used, only what came with the units themselves. The Xiotone cabs are FRFR, allegedly. 

 

There were a lot of players that stopped by to jam on the devices and the event went on well into the night. Not only did I get to play both units, but more importantly, I was able to sit back and listen. It was also very interesting to hear the opinions of these people talk about the units, the hardware and the tones. It was quite loud as they are letting these units rip.

 

In a nut shell, this was the consensus of the more than two dozen guitarist of various age groups and musical genre's:

 

They thought that both units sounded great.

 

They loved the scribble strips and Helix screen.

 

They did not like the attached pedal on the Helix with some saying that they preferred a pedal that was not attached for various reasons.

 

They much preferred the AX8 tones and modeling.

 

They preferred the "Feel and Interaction" of the AX8. (Not my terms)

 

There were some comparisons done where they tried to select the same amps, cabs, speakers and settings on each unit and compared them. They went by the available models in the Helix such as the Fender's, Marshall's, etc. The AX8 was preferred. 

 

Interesting was that I noticed that they were trying to adjust the Helix to sound like the AX8, not trying to get the AX8 to sound like the Helix.

 

I did notice a significant difference between the devices in tones comparing the same amp models and cabs, they are not close in that regard. They sound quite different between the two. Personal preference with what you prefer.

 

They all agreed that the features included with the Helix was outstanding and some called it the "Swiss Army Knife" for the guitarist.

 

The guitarist that mostly played gigs and had no interest in recording or studio work, loved the X/Y switching and Scenes on the AX8. The guitarist that did do a lot of studio work had little interest in those features and loved the features of the Helix.

 

In the end both units were praised and they were both loved, the Helix for it's hardware and the AX8 for it's tones. Personally, as someone who only does live gigs and no recording or studio work at all, I preferred the AX8. The tones and interaction (some call it feel) were fantastic. Many made the comment that if they could put the Fractal modeling in the Helix hardware, you would have the ultimate machine for the guitarist. I agree.

 

Since that event, the AX8 firmware has been upgraded and I have been told that the quality of the modeling has ticked up even more. I find it hard to believe that it could improve, I thought that it was that good.

 

This post is not intended to poke a hornets nest. I have no dog in this fight and as a long time Line 6 customer and fan, with no experience with Fractal products, I feel strongly that I can listen objectively and form objective opinions. Incidentally, the comments in this post were the consensus of the group and not particularly my thoughts.

 

I will end with this: If you are in the market for a $1500 floor based modeler, you need to spend time using all options available and choose what offers you the features, performance and modeling for your particular situation. There are compromises to be made as with anything.

When we compared them yesterday we didn't use any cab modelling so that could have leveled the playing filed a little.  I know cab models have never been Line 6's strongest area.  Having said that I couldn't determine any clear advantage that the AX8 had tone and feel wise.  The Helix held it's own and then some.  

 

Next time we get together I want to try out both units through FRFR with cab modelling on just to see.  Also I'd like to try them both using the same 3rd party IR.  

 

At the end of the day these are both awesome units.  He's happy with his and I'm happy with mine, but we both enjoy doing these comparisons for the fun of it :)

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Ease of use is the biggest part of the helix, I owned the hd500 and the one before it.

I couldn't get past the interface so I sold and got a boss gt10 then a gt100 not sure if the gt10 was better than the hd500 as I soon got the gt100 after I got the gt10.

 

I know a lot of people like the hd500 and I'm not saying it was bad, just wasn't for me. Gt100 was far easier for me to tweak sounds on.

Most settings on the gt100 sounded like crap also.

 

I seen that line 6 sales artist patches for hd500/x and that wouldn't bother me on the helix. Just don't sale amps an fx's

 

If this is updated like it should be and fractal doesn't put in a touch screen with a operating system easy as the helix.

I may be a line 6 fan from here out. Could see myself buying the helix 2 or 3.

 

I don't really like how line 6 operates, they can only tell us hints and give us hope that more is to came without saying anything 100%

I've seen the times DI said its line 6 way of doing things so that just sucks for us. So it is nice to know that the ax8 is good. If line6 kicks this to the curb we have something else like the helix that we can swap over too.

 

Thx op, great write up.

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I don't really like how line 6 operates, they can only tell us hints and give us hope that more is to came without saying anything 100%

 

 

 

 

The best thing about Fractal Audio forums isn't its products, altho they are awesome. Its that you get to discuss the Axe FX and AX8 with its maker, on the forum, nearly every day!  I would LOVE to see Line 6 have that kind of communication with its customers.

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The best thing about Fractal Audio forums isn't its products, altho they are awesome. Its that you get to discuss the Axe FX and AX8 with its maker, on the forum, nearly every day!  I would LOVE to see Line 6 have that kind of communication with its customers.

 

I think you do, as far as is possible. The user base of the Line 6 products is way way bigger than Fractal, and yet Frank and Eric and others find time to comment and be part of the conversations here and on TGP and on the facebook forum and in other places.

 

I don't know how much more you could really expect.

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[...]

I don't know how much more you could really expect.

Maybe an ideascale which will be constantly maintained?

Oops, existing and working?!

Ok then, maybe a daily newsletter?

Private phone numbers at least ?!

b57a2a60fa9d4368c7487892ea101af3.png

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I must be in the minority hat doesn't really use the Helix for Amp modelling

I stick a generically clean amp like the Soldano or one of the fenders bypass the cab modelling and go straight into either the fx returns of a pair of two rocks or a Freyette power station

I do use the cab models via the XLRs for front of house but that is re-enforcement. The sound I hear and play with is straight into the power section of the amp

Why do I mention this?

Because I had an FX8 at the same time as the Helix and although the scenes were OK (I didn't use them much) I ran out of FX and /or horsepower pretty quickly on it.

My life with the FX8 was a constant juggling act of what it would allow me to have without switching preset

Where the Helix won hands down was the on the floor tweaking (which is a pain in most of the fractal devices) and also the amount of footswitches per patch and the flexibility to assign any parameter easily to a footswitch

For example I have patches with guitar harmonies on them where I use the footswitches to latch and temporarily change key

I could probably do the same in the FX8 but not easily

I also wasn't convinced about the drives

They were 'OK' and with a fair amount of deep tweaking you could even get them to be 'good' but it is time consuming

I'm a jobbing musician, I don't have a lot of time or patience for editing. I want to plug it in, twiddle about a bit then rock out..

The minute I'm ducking about with a laptop scrolling through pages of parameters ... I've lost

The Helix is quicker and easier to get good sounds for me

Just my 2 pence

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I think you do, as far as is possible. The user base of the Line 6 products is way way bigger than Fractal, and yet Frank and Eric and others find time to comment and be part of the conversations here and on TGP and on the facebook forum and in other places.

 

I don't know how much more you could really expect.

I appreciate your opinion and I agree that Yamaha/Line-6 is much bigger an operation, but I think theres a huge difference between occasionally taking to one of the members of the staff versus a near daily conversation withs its CEO and maker. To me, that in itself go's beyond expectations. But, it is what it is. I wish I was a millionaire too...  :P

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Maybe an ideascale which will be constantly maintained?

Oops, existing and working?!

Ok then, maybe a daily newsletter?

Private phone numbers at least ?!

b57a2a60fa9d4368c7487892ea101af3.png

I know they are busy right now, as always. But I tend to agree with you that if they are too short handed, then hire some more folks and quit running their operations like a grocery store... No offense intended and arm chair CEO's like me always have the easy answer, right? :D

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I'm a jobbing musician, I don't have a lot of time or patience for editing. I want to plug it in, twiddle about a

The minute I'm ducking about with a laptop scrolling through pages of parameters ... I've lost

The Helix is quicker and easier to get good sounds for me

Just my 2 pence

Interesting read- Gets my hopes up in finally receiving my Helix.

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Interesting read- Gets my hopes up in finally receiving my Helix.

 

i've been saying this over and over, which should give you even more hope.

 

I printed out my Helix manual and read it through before my Helix arrived.

 

I referred to it a little the first two days I worked with it. (Got a working patch from scratch in under an hour.)

 

I lost the manual a little while later. Didn't reprint it. Didn't look for it. Didn't need it. (finally found it, btw.)

 

It took me a day to learn everything about this that it took a week or more to learn with HD 500.

 

It's... that... easy...

 

Editor won't make it "easier", just easier on your back, imho.

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Editor won't make it "easier", just easier on your back, imho.

 

Im glad its...that...easy.  I still want the editor right along side my DAW. 

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Editor won't make it "easier", just easier on your back, imho.

 

No need to be humble about that opinion.  It's true.  And my back will be ever so thankful!

:D

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Spoiler alert: If you can't get a good tone out of either one of these units, it's your fault. Plain and simple. It's not that your ears are that discerning, you just don't know what you're doing.

 

Yeah, exactly that! There is far too much internet devoted to which one is "better" or which one is "higher quality" of the two (or more).

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Has anyone made direct comparisons between them using the same speaker IRs? I have read that some 3rd party irs sound better than the stock Helix ones.

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I'm not sold on the 3rd party irs

It makes stereo a pain and finding the right one at band volume is a torture my band mates aren't really signing up for

If you have ones you know and use already then it's great

If you want to sit and audition 100 3rd party IRs then you have much more patience than me I have to say :)

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Yeah. What kills me is I was a long term owner of Kemper rack and Axe FX II XL+. Didn't sell then until I made sure the Helix would give me the same tones and vibes I got out of those two amp/cab wise. I was able to determine that within 2 weeks or less. I no longer have to lug around a rack plus MIDI pedal.

 

I also now use the same rig live and in the studio.

 

I don't have a brand bias... I owned everything but the Atomic one that's out. Thought about buying one of them just for a super portable jam pedal.

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I've got an Atomic

It's my backup rig

Great pedal and sounds fab if you put the time in

The lack of buttons is an issue and I wish it had a ground lift in the XLRs

But as a second unit it has a lot going for it

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for the gear addicts:

 

it was very funny how my first electric guitar was a high grade one: GIBSON LES PAUL STANDARD CHERRY BURST 2008... then after the purchase I started to learn HOW THA HELL YOU PICK UP AN INSTRUMENT. Funny isn't it? it was very frustrating having a Cort z42 made in Indonesia sounding better than my made in USA Gibson. But wait, that impression was that way 'cuz I was not experienced. Nowadays this Gibson made in USA Lester is the best of the best of the very best piece of gear I own in my 42 guitar collection; having Jacksons, Ibanez prestige, Fender USA, Epiphone, Other USA Gibsons, expensive Cort guitars, etc. funny, my favorite guitar is an Ibanez RG 331 m BOR. It was the same when it came to amps, pedals, cables, recording devices AND PROCESSORS. As much as you all guys talk and discuss about who's the winner, who's better, I get to a simple conclusion: I have to buy both. PERIOD. (and still is my favorite the PODx3 PRO)

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Out of all the comparison criteria.... the 1 I am most interested in but hardly ever hear about is  how convincing Helix is when it comes to just an amp/cab combo.... and the players touch/feel and volume knob manipulation.    I am more interested in a convincing amp/cab combo..... and how the Helix reacts to the player. Atm I am on the fence on the Helix. If I do make the plunge, I`ll prolly get the Atomic CLR FRFR powered wedge for the Helix. And I really hope that it FEELS and sounds like I am playing an amp.  It has to be convincing.

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Out of all the comparison criteria.... the 1 I am most interested in but hardly ever hear about is  how convincing Helix is when it comes to just an amp/cab combo.... and the players touch/feel and volume knob manipulation.    I am more interested in a convincing amp/cab combo..... and how the Helix reacts to the player. Atm I am on the fence on the Helix. If I do make the plunge, I`ll prolly get the Atomic CLR FRFR powered wedge for the Helix. And I really hope that it FEELS and sounds like I am playing an amp.  It has to be convincing.

The way I'm running my helix it does sound and respond like a tube amp.

It's really close to my dual rec on the Mesa setting on the helix.

 

I'm not going to say it will beat a tube amp, but it does a nice job.

It does do stereo and my dual rec doesn't so that's a big plus. I really enjoy playing in stereo now a days.

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The speaker modeling is key and you took it out of the equation.  

 

Fractal has said over and over it is designed to be used direct.  If you took out the speaker modeling you took out the weakness of the Helix as some would argue, and the area the AX8 shines the most - so basically you just compared Helix and AX8 preamps with your amp's power amp and cab.

 

To me using an expensive unit like this with an amp proves nothing.  It has to stand on its own direct.

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So why exactly is the cab modeling on the Helix a weakness? It was good enough for me to unload an Axe FX II XL+ and a Kemper...

 

No more MIDI pedal and rack for me.

I'm a fanboy of none. All 3 are great products. I'm assuming of course quite logically that my Axe II was a little better than the AX8...

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Out of all the comparison criteria.... the 1 I am most interested in but hardly ever hear about is  how convincing Helix is when it comes to just an amp/cab combo.... and the players touch/feel and volume knob manipulation.    I am more interested in a convincing amp/cab combo..... and how the Helix reacts to the player. Atm I am on the fence on the Helix. If I do make the plunge, I`ll prolly get the Atomic CLR FRFR powered wedge for the Helix. And I really hope that it FEELS and sounds like I am playing an amp.  It has to be convincing.

I have the same primary desire: the best amp sound. Sure I would love the scribble strips and other features of Helix, but I don't want to accept less than the best tone and feel just for the bonus features.

 

I've been holding off on buying Helix or Ax8 until I either get an opportunity to try them both or until a convincing consensus is reached by other players who have spent time with both. Meanwhile, I'm still making half my living with a pod HD 500, in which I have an enormous time investment in my patches.

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How crazy....and on the AX8 forum the majority of people think it is better than the Helix...imagine...  :P

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How crazy....and on the AX8 forum the majority of people think it is better than the Helix...imagine...  :P

 

It's almost as if people like the things they buy and/or buy the things they like... What is this madness!?

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I know they are busy right now, as always. But I tend to agree with you that if they are too short handed, then hire some more folks and quit running their operations like a grocery store...

 

Attention armchair product managers: Think you can do better? We're hiring.

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Attention armchair product managers: Think you can do better? We're hiring.

 

LOL...Yep, TRY to find QUALIFIED employees and then tell everyone how it is....been trying to hire five employees for a year now and have gotten ONE out of TWENTY-THIRTY that was qualified and worth hiring....

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I printed out my Helix manual and read it through before my Helix arrived.

 

I referred to it a little the first two days I worked with it. (Got a working patch from scratch in under an hour.)

 

I lost the manual a little while later. Didn't reprint it. Didn't look for it. Didn't need it. (finally found it, btw.)

 

It took me a day to learn everything about this that it took a week or more to learn with HD 500.

 

It's... that... easy...

 

Editor won't make it "easier", just easier on your back, imho.

 

 

I did the exact same thing. I was able to set up my first four presets without the manual when I got the Helix in..... 

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Attention armchair product managers: Think you can do better? We're hiring.

 

 

hehehehehehehe..... I think I'd rather be a user than a producer..... 

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Attention armchair product managers: Think you can do better? We're hiring.

Turn over rate high? Raise yer qualifications and skill level, Pay more than 10 bucks an hour, outsource to quality vendors and the sales then take care of themselves, and find another solution for a low staff count besides smartarshes like me on the forums...  :P  ;)

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