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If I like Amplitube's Mesa MkIII, what's like that in Helix?


zooey
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Hi folks, new here, have a Helix coming in a couple weeks (too much going on at my house to take delivery right now), hoping I'm doing the right thing, for instance...

 

One of my favorite amp sim sounds is Amplitube's Mesa MkIII. I often run the master dimed and input gain very low, gets this really great not-very-distorted-but-fat tone.

 

Is there anything in Helix like that? Like what amp models?

 

Have to say, while I'm super excited about everything Helix can do, I'm worried about the small number of Mesa and Orange models in particular, since I really lean on those in Amplitube.

 

Any other Amplitube fans here? Are you happy in Helix-land? I know that's a stupid question, since there are tons of really different amps in Amplitube, but hey, I'm anxious, trying to get a handle on what to check out first, wondering if I'm going to like Helix's sounds as much as think I do its features and form factor.

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IMO Helix (and a few others) should destroy the software tone wise. I have found over the years that "in general" good hardware guitar preamps "always" sound better than software thru the same speaker setup. Thats been my experience altho I have not listened to Amplitudes Mesa MkIII yet. As always YMMV.

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It's not the general tone quality I'm questioning, it's the kind of fat-but-not-too-dirty thing the Mark III in AT does so well. I'm thinking a number of not-metal Helix amps might get there, maybe by turning up some sag, just have ot wait and try it myself I guess.

 

Was just wondering if anyone had any sense that there are *some* amps in there with that kind of thing going on.

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Well Im waiting on my Helix, but the Firehawk 1500 does have some amps and fx's that qualify what yer looking for, from your description. Just right at breakup... And if the FH 1500 has this Im pretty sure Helix has this in spades.

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Helix doesn't have any of the Mesa Mark amps.

It does have one channel of the dual recitifer and its close in sound to my real dual rec minus two channels.

 

Don't worrie tho, if you like gain the helix does that pretty well and has a few high gain amps.

I love the cleans on the newest amp line 6 just gave us in the update. 2nd channel is nice to.

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I have Amplitube 4 with the Mesa amps. I will see if there is something close to an Amplitube Mesa Mark III in Helix.

 

I actually love the Helix as an interface and midi controller for Amplitube 4. One USB cable for audio and midi control. Helix allows me to set latency at 64ms on my PC now (must be the hardware and L6 drivers), and is working well with the midi learn of Amplitube.

 

Over headphones, I still really like the Amplitube 4 Mesa amps a little better than Helix. I do like putting the Helix models through the Amplitube cab room though.

 

However, I think Helix sounds better live 4CM through tube guitar amps. I started with my Mesa Mark V, but actually digging the Marshall and Matchless models through my EL34 Mesa Stiletto II. I don't have high end FRFR speakers, only JBL Eons, which are okay.

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Also I think the Mesa Mark series is pretty high up on the Helix request list. Check out Line 6 IdeaScale and you can vote them up...I did. I wouldn't be surprised to see them in the future, but of course wouldn't suggest you base a purchase on that.

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I saw lots of requests for the 2c on ideascale, some for Mark V, but exactly zero for the Mark III, though I might have missed them, search there isn't awesome. I like the other AT Mesas too (except the TA, which I expected to love and really don't), but the Mark III is my fave.

 

Just to be clear, I'm NOT after super high gain. What's special to me about the AT Mark III is how it behaves when it's overdriven a little but not a lot. Specifically, as I said, I like running the master hot and channel gain low. Looking for some fatness and sort-of-compression-but-not-really, might be sag, and I love how it digs in when I pick harder. I often have several different overdrive stomps set up in a patch like that, so as saved it's clean but fat, then I can kick in one of the higher gain stomps for a solo if I want, but it's still nowhere near metal territory. Oddly enough, one common overdrive I use is just the 7-band graphic with some gain and tailored EQ. On the Mesas especially, that can sound just awesome to me. I've also found uses for most of the overdrives and some of the fuzzes, I just don't jack em up that far usually.

 

One thing that makes the AT Mesas work so well for me is that built-in EQ post the preamp. (Not that big a fan of the rack EQs in AT, though the parametric is useful.) I often kill low end before the amp to prevent flatulence, then fatten and brighten it up after w the Mesa EQ. Clearly, adding EQ blocks anywhere I want isn't a problem w Helix, so I expect to be quite happy on that level.

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I love the J45 model for warm sounding cleans and early break up stuff.  I generally set up an overdrive pedal with no gain but level close to 9 or 10 to choose between clean clean and slightly pushed with that model.

 

For the EQ you can recreate it with a parametric eq after any of the amp models.  The sliders are set at 80hz, 240hz, 750z, 2200z, 6600hz

 

You can find mesa's EQ specs here:   http://www.mesaboogie.com/media/User%20Manuals/five-band_140401.pdf

 

You can try the Mesa Rectifire model with the input gain really low, It can even produce nice clean tones, but it's got a pretty stiff feel. Raising the sag can help, but with the master volume juiced you might get more break up than you want, and the sag will react more with changes.  If you go into it with the mindset of trying to recreate the tone, as opposed to trying to set the knobs at the same place you might have in the aplitube settings, you'll have a better time.

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Thanks for you thoughts. I've been able to get sounds I like out of a bunch of different amps in Amplitube, so I'm hoping the same is true in Helix. I'm not totally confident though, because a lot of the Helix sounds I hear on the web are the side of Marshall I don't care for, lots of high-end hash, and (intentionally) not much "give", not what I'm after. I'm kind of taking it on faith (and store return policies...) that there's stuff in there that's more up my alley.

 

The AT rectifiers have the same stiffness and lack of give you're talking about in th Helix version. Not that I never want that, but I like the Mark II and IV much more for what I more typically do.

 

Anyway, this is really just me worrying, when it actuallygets here, it'll be what it is, and I'll see :)

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Still haven't had time to play around with the Helix today. But it will be really easy for you to AB Helix and AT4 without swapping and cables. Set up a couple of patches with different IO routings, one Helix and one USB, and footswitch between them. You can even lay down a track/loop with a dry signal in the AT4 recorder, route the usb dry back into helix on one patch, and full AT signal on the other. Makes AB compare and helix editing much easier if you don't have to strum the guitar at the same time.

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Hmmm, interesting idea. I haven't been planning on about integrating AT and Helix, thinking I just won't use AT any more. Kind of a shame, since I have been quite happy with it, but I just don't want to take a computer to jams or gigs. It has set a bit of a high bar sound- and sonic flexibility-wise, I'm hoping Helix can keep up.

 

I know there's a crowd of people who think hardware modelers inherently blow away software sims, but I've never played one I liked anywhere near as much as Amplitube or Scuffham. Then again, I've never played a Helix, Ax-FX, or Kemper. Helix is essentially a high-powered special-purpose computer with awesome interface and connectivity features. Problem is that it only runs proprietary software, instead of the pile of VST fx out there, of bunch of which I own and like.

 

Now THAT is BY FAR my biggest Helix wishlist item -- the ability to run standard VSTs!!!  It's not going to happen though, I know.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am really psyched for my Helix to arrive, and hopeful that I'll really love it. I'll just have to see how it goes...

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